Apologies if the following link has been posted elsewhere. Four elite players at Melbourne.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/01/31/champion-data-ranks-your-club's-list-for-2018/

Edited February 1, 20187 yr by Demon77

Justin Westoff is elite - Champion Data 2018.

 

If economics is the dismal science then surely statistics is the doleful science.

i do wonder what data Champion Data  gathers and how they use/interpret it.

Jayden Hunt considered elite while Michael Hibberd not mentioned, ridiculous in the extreme! Jayden Hunt has the talent to become elite but he has a fair way to go. Hibberd AA proves my point.

That’s a very strange list, how do they come up with this crap any wonder no one takes them seriously 

Bulldogs for example johannisen elite but bontempelli not?

collingwood jack crisp elite? Who the hell is jack crisp sounds like a bag of chips

westhoff elite? I really should have stopped reading there 

7. Western Bulldogs – One elite player (Jason Johannisen).

Note: The Dogs have nine above average players and 12 average players. Marcus Bontempelli is only in the average category.

 

Champion Data, ladies and gentlemen. 

At least they got Carlton’s list ranking correct. 

Edited February 1, 20187 yr by Ethan Tremblay

10 minutes ago, Dee Dee said:

If economics is the dismal science then surely statistics is the doleful science.

i do wonder what data Champion Data  gathers and how they use/interpret it.

Jayden Hunt considered elite while Michael Hibberd not mentioned, ridiculous in the extreme! Jayden Hunt has the talent to become elite but he has a fair way to go. Hibberd AA proves my point.

Wonder no more! Buy the book for the bargain price of $40!

https://shop.championdata.com.au/order.aspx

* I have no idea if they reveal how they rate the players.

I do know that Supercoach scores are now directly related to Champion Data points. If you kick a goal to put your team in front with 1 minute to go, it gets more points than if you kick a goal while 10 goals up or down. 

They obviously do not have Hunt as a half back flanker as Hibberd isn't elite. (Unless they don't have Hibberd as a hbf)

34 minutes ago, Dee Dee said:

If economics is the dismal science then surely statistics is the doleful science.

i do wonder what data Champion Data  gathers and how they use/interpret it.

Jayden Hunt considered elite while Michael Hibberd not mentioned, ridiculous in the extreme! Jayden Hunt has the talent to become elite but he has a fair way to go. Hibberd AA proves my point.

Not to mention ... Tracc elite (ok, I'll wear that) but then Oliver not???

 

Maybe they go by looks in which case Clarry will never make it.

Nothing wrong with the way they count kicks and handballs , how many games a players has played...that's stats, that's what they do and do well.

It's when they take the stats and try to extrapolate out things like this that they are way out of their depth.

Wow.

 

I think some of this might have a heavy weight on unrealised potential if Petracca is "elite"

On output thus far, Oliver is light years head.

 

And Hunt before Hibberd?

Bloody hell. I know absolutely bugger-all about footy.

46 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Bloody hell. I know absolutely bugger-all about footy.

Don’t be so harsh on yourself 

YOU ARE NOT A BOMBERS SUPPORTER - you therefore know more than bugger all

Champion data have great formulas for most stats and are very relevant they tend to get lost in translation when ranking teams the way they do is just complete and utter crap.

You’ve got to read the context. Elite means the top 10% in their designated position over the previous 2 seasons not 1.

I don’t know how specific they get. Eg Inside Onballer v Outside onballer v midfielder (ie this could be a wing). Wonder if they divide half forwards into categories like High HF v Defensive HF. 

I’d say Johansen is only assessed against other attacking HB’s  and had an incredible 2016 with a Norm whereas Bontempelli is competing to be top 10% of all inside onballers. I can see that result. However I’m dazed and confused by the Bont not even being above average just average  I guess they are stats based and his stats were probably down this year  

Track would be competing against high and goal kicking HF’s whereas Clarry is competing against all in and under midfielders over the past 2 seasons. I can see that. 

Let me just add that having said all the above  I think most of their rankings are totally stuffed. Joel Selwood isn’t elite Jeremy Howe is.  You can go on and on. I’ve never rated their ranking system. 

Edited February 1, 20187 yr by It's Time

SEN can crap on about these stats for days

they love it. 

Totally meaningless though

 

On 01/02/2018 at 7:27 PM, Mazer Rackham said:

Not to mention ... Tracc elite (ok, I'll wear that) but then Oliver not???

 

Maybe they go by looks in which case Clarry will never make it.

Petracca probably classed as a med-fwd and Oliver a mid would explain the discrepancy.

I've bought the AFL prospectus the last few years and it is a very interesting read. AFL advanced stats are still in their infancy but I think they do a great job of trying to explain the game. They do not release the vast majority of stats to the public which is a shame. For example something like "hitouts to advantage" tells more about a ruckman than plain "hitouts" but these stats are not available.

On 01/02/2018 at 11:15 PM, It's Time said:

You’ve got to read the context. Elite means the top 10% in their designated position over the previous 2 seasons not 1.

I don’t know how specific they get. Eg Inside Onballer v Outside onballer v midfielder (ie this could be a wing). Wonder if they divide half forwards into categories like High HF v Defensive HF. 

I’d say Johansen is only assessed against other attacking HB’s  and had an incredible 2016 with a Norm whereas Bontempelli is competing to be top 10% of all inside onballers. I can see that result. However I’m dazed and confused by the Bont not even being above average just average  I guess they are stats based and his stats were probably down this year  

Track would be competing against high and goal kicking HF’s whereas Clarry is competing against all in and under midfielders over the past 2 seasons. I can see that. 

Let me just add that having said all the above  I think most of their rankings are totally stuffed. Joel Selwood isn’t elite Jeremy Howe is.  You can go on and on. I’ve never rated their ranking system. 

They don't differentiate between midfielders I don't believe, I think the categories are key forward, medium forward, midfielder, medium back, key back - ruckman may also be split off from mids as their own category. So Johanneson is ranked in top 10% of medium defenders while Bont is ranked at around the 60tg percentile for mids (I think) which is probably right considering he wasn't that great in 2017.

Edited February 3, 20187 yr by Dr. Gonzo

Stats lies

Fake news so sad

Lol ok

While stats can be helpful, as previously mentioned the interpretation can become very subjective and depends on the boundaries.

While I really enjoy AFL and have an interest in most teams, there is really only one team, the Demons! Demonland generally gives a pretty good guide to who is our best 22 and who is playing well, other than the odd bias towards/against a particular player, which is often funny to read!

But for now, screw the stats, I can’t wait to see:

Hogan

Petracca

Brayshaw

Salem

Gawn

Hibberd

after full preseasons. With a reasonable draw and fingers crossed a good run with injuries, it looms as a terrific year!

 

 

On 01/02/2018 at 11:15 PM, It's Time said:

You’ve got to read the context. Elite means the top 10% in their designated position over the previous 2 seasons not 1.

I don’t know how specific they get. Eg Inside Onballer v Outside onballer v midfielder (ie this could be a wing). Wonder if they divide half forwards into categories like High HF v Defensive HF. 

I’d say Johansen is only assessed against other attacking HB’s  and had an incredible 2016 with a Norm whereas Bontempelli is competing to be top 10% of all inside onballers. I can see that result. However I’m dazed and confused by the Bont not even being above average just average  I guess they are stats based and his stats were probably down this year  

Track would be competing against high and goal kicking HF’s whereas Clarry is competing against all in and under midfielders over the past 2 seasons. I can see that. 

Let me just add that having said all the above  I think most of their rankings are totally stuffed. Joel Selwood isn’t elite Jeremy Howe is.  You can go on and on. I’ve never rated their ranking system. 

Jeremy Howe isn't elite compared to Joel Selwood, that is ridiculous. Howe is elite compared to other running defenders. I would wager that champion data having everything broken down into smaller categories or defensive back, loose man et cetera... 

5 hours ago, Josh said:

Jeremy Howe isn't elite compared to Joel Selwood, that is ridiculous. Howe is elite compared to other running defenders. I would wager that champion data having everything broken down into smaller categories or defensive back, loose man et cetera... 

That’s the point of what I wrote. 

On 01/02/2018 at 7:06 PM, brendan said:

That’s a very strange list, how do they come up with this crap any wonder no one takes them seriously 

 

Except the clubs who pay bucket loads for their data. But what would they know?

Talent isn't everything-just ask Rhonda Burchmore.

Edited February 6, 20187 yr by Biffen

On 2/6/2018 at 6:09 AM, Josh said:

Jeremy Howe isn't elite compared to Joel Selwood, that is ridiculous. Howe is elite compared to other running defenders. I would wager that champion data having everything broken down into smaller categories or defensive back, loose man et cetera... 

I picked up the latest AFL Prospectus on Tuesday, for me it's must-read material before each season and has been for the last several years.

In regards to positions, they have actually broken them down into General Defender, Key Defender, Mid, Wing, Ruckman, General Forward, Mid-Forward, Key Forward.

There's a piece by Troy Luff on the change in gamestyles over the last couple of years and a particular focus on what Richmond did last year. He makes a comment in regards to the two most asked questions they often get at Champion Data - the most asked is "what's the most important statistic" and his response is "Points For" - that might appease some of the statistical luddites

Edited February 8, 20187 yr by Dr. Gonzo