Preseason Training - Week commencing 13/11/17

[DeeZee 6,853]

Anyone see Kent or Vandenberg at training, and do they look fit?

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

30 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Anyone see Kent or Vandenberg at training, and do they look fit?

AVB is working off feet mostly with Viney inside

Kent still on hols

[Salems Lot 2,392]

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Turned up before 11 to catch 45 minutes or so.

Rehab group:
Tim Smith doing laps
Joel Smith, Flippers, Hannan, McKenna and Tom McDonald with some simple handball drills, kick to kick and then some running. I'd say these 5 are all pretty advanced and just being taken along slowly after injuries.

Hannan looks noticeably stronger - couldn't do weights after shoulder surgery before he was drafted. He looked very sharp in an in close handball weaving drill.
McKenna another who looks to have done plenty in the gym. Lovely kick on both sides as well

 The main group were doing a bit of 3/4 ground ball movement, seemed to be about 8 on 9. 4 down back, 3 in the middle, 1 or 2 up forward and just moving the ball to score. As noted a couple of nice Brayshaw kicks were the highlights. 

Mitch King is another looking much stronger. Still has a bit of puppy fat to trim off his middle but that's probably the price to pay for getting extra bulk in the offseason. His running was decent and he took a nice leap at one stage.

Keilty was walking laps around the oval as the main grouped trained. Looked a bit under the weather. Later joined in some of the running. Mainly Max, King and Keilty were in their own big man running group. 

The rest did runs first in shorter sprints and then some longer laps. Gus and Harmes led the boys off with ANB given something to chase, sometimes he got them, sometimes they were ahead. Rough order after that of Hunt, Salem, Stretch, Wagner, JKH, Oliver then not far back to Tracc, Frost, Vince, Oscar, Maynard, DJ and Balic usually towards the end. In the shorter runs they were all pretty well keeping up. 

In the longer runs Balic was with King and DJ and they were pushing each other along. ANB made a gap from a tight bunch with Tracc and JKH a little from the back in the longer main group. 

Around then Weids came out with the boxing coach I think and walked a lap before heading off again and that's about when I left.

Takeways:
- Good to have Max and Tom back on deck with both looking all clear from injuries
- Salem looking strong and running towards the front
- Hannan looking stronger
- 18 or so in full training and another 5 doing a fair bit in rehab

 

Great to have your input again this off-season DeeS.  Really appreciate it!

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,533]

15 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

On the rehab

Hannan and Joel Smith are knee

McKenna hamstring

Flip hip

Tim Smith foot

 

Apologies if this has already been stated previously, but is the "McKenna hamstring" a carry over from last season or is it a new problem? (I'm not sure which answer would be preferable). 

[Deemania since 56 6,237]

14 hours ago, Salems Lot said:

In the longer runs Balic was with King and DJ and they were pushing each other along. ANB made a gap from a tight bunch with Tracc and JKH a little from the back in the longer main group. 

Getting in with the mateship thing, already. Onyer, Balic. 

[Demonland 66,454]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/11/13/gaz's-demons-training-report-who-were-his-standouts/

“The first to fourth year players were doing their 200 metre runs,” Lyon said.

“Angus Brayshaw and Alex Neal-Bullen were the two standouts, along with Jayden Hunt. Christian Petracca looked good, but by the very last one he had the tongue out. They all looked really fine.

“Clayton Oliver has come back in good shape, he is flying around. Corey Maynard, I keep telling you, he is the one. He is powerful and had a ripping VFL finals. He will be there.

“Harley Balic was there running around, he didn’t look as fit as the other couple, but he looked fine. He is still finding his way in the caper.”

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

4 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Apologies if this has already been stated previously, but is the "McKenna hamstring" a carry over from last season or is it a new problem? (I'm not sure which answer would be preferable). 

No, he did it properly last time so rehab is all about ensuring it doesn't happen again only a week away from joining in

[tiers 2,785]

Re Maxie's ripping body.

Many years ago, a St Kilda goal sneak named Lockett got fit and lost weight. Like Samson losing his hair, Lockett lost his strength and was a lesser player.

If Maxie is to become ripped, then he should rely on his height, leap, speed and tank to dominate his opposition. Engaging in wrestling matches could see him rapidly becoming less effective. This was Jeff White's undoing.

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

6 hours ago, tiers said:

Re Maxie's ripping body.

Many years ago, a St Kilda goal sneak named Lockett got fit and lost weight. Like Samson losing his hair, Lockett lost his strength and was a lesser player.

If Maxie is to become ripped, then he should rely on his height, leap, speed and tank to dominate his opposition. Engaging in wrestling matches could see him rapidly becoming less effective. This was Jeff White's undoing.

With the bounce about to disappear, athletic ruckmen will be the go, not big heavy lumberers, going the way of the full fwd wrestling the full back

[Skuit 9,380]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:09 PM, Satyriconhome said:

AVB is working off feet mostly with Viney inside

Kent still on hols

The first is a concern.

The second, well I'm not sure that being left behind in Darwin for nearly three months without even a pillow can be really considered a holiday.

[buck_nekkid 5,555]

6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

With the bounce about to disappear, athletic ruckmen will be the go, not big heavy lumberers, going the way of the full fwd wrestling the full back

When guys like Watts TMac and others are considered reasonable alternatives in the ruck, and teams like the Doggies hardly fielded a real one, I think this is a great move by the club and max.  If he can be even more mobile, take really solid grabs and act as the cutout for kick ins etc, swing forward and kick a few, and generally be fitter and more agile, I think it really adds to the team.  The slow, lumbering ruck is almost being made redundant.  This is also where King and Flippers come in.

[Deemania since 56 6,237]

14 hours ago, tiers said:

Re Maxie's ripping body.

Many years ago, a St Kilda goal sneak named Lockett got fit and lost weight. Like Samson losing his hair, Lockett lost his strength and was a lesser player.

If Maxie is to become ripped, then he should rely on his height, leap, speed and tank to dominate his opposition. Engaging in wrestling matches could see him rapidly becoming less effective. This was Jeff White's undoing.

Max has been a great tap ruckman but less effective in this role since his injury. He tended to just tap the ball down for scouts, hopefully able to run onto its passage. However, now he is trimmed and fit again, I'd reckon that his mobility and endurance for running all over the ground would be greater and hopefully, the leg issues are behind him. This could create the greatest mobile big man the team has seen since Stynes. He won't waste his time wrestling - that is below his contributory function. He can take that big intercept mark and roll forward for the occasional goal - let's hope some of these play-based moves eventuate. He is a terrific asset.

[picket fence 15,553]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 10:09 PM, Satyriconhome said:

AVB is working off feet mostly with Viney inside

Kent still on hols

Kent still on Hols?? He was on Hols all of the season gone !! Needs a friggen rocket!! 

If Van Ders is still injured then after a full year of I would seriously question whether he will get back!

[Lucifers Hero 37,323]

13 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Kent still on Hols?? He was on Hols all of the season gone !! Needs a friggen rocket!!

Kent is not a 1 to 4 year player so technically isn't due back till nov 20.

But your point is well made - given he had a bad 2017 on and off the field, you would think he could make a statement about commitment and earn back the faith, by coming back a bit early as other senior players have (eg Max, Viney, Pedo). 

I doubt he will be on our list next year.  Maybe he knows it.  We will know in a few weeks how much he cares about his AFL career.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Deemania since 56 6,237]

20 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Kent is not a 1 to 4 year player so technically isn't due back till nov 20.

But your point is well made - given he had a bad 2017 on and off the field, you would think he could make a statement about commitment and earn back the faith, by coming back a bit early as other senior players have (eg Max, Viney, Pedo). 

I doubt he will be on our list next year.  Maybe he knows it.  We will know in a few weeks how much he cares about his AFL career.

Really have a good deal of support for Kent, as I have stated previously. He has some great attributes culled by a shoulder dislocation that is a cruel, longer-term injury at best. Yep, it would be nice to see him back on the training track and interacting with the team very closely, particularly after the season that he has endured. It is not a great sign that he has perhaps missed early sessions by remaining on his holidays, if that is the reason - despite the 20 November schedule for return. Kent is capable of great movement and positioning, and can actually kick some wonderful goals 'on the run'. He is tough, although not as tough as he was prior to his injury, of course. Really looking forward to his return to the body of the kirk - a needed player and I hope his injury can largely be regarded as 'behind him'.

[The Chazz 4,077]

10 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Really have a good deal of support for Kent, as I have stated previously. He has some great attributes culled by a shoulder dislocation that is a cruel, longer-term injury at best. Yep, it would be nice to see him back on the training track and interacting with the team very closely, particularly after the season that he has endured. It is not a great sign that he has perhaps missed early sessions by remaining on his holidays, if that is the reason - despite the 20 November schedule for return. Kent is capable of great movement and positioning, and can actually kick some wonderful goals 'on the run'. He is tough, although not as tough as he was prior to his injury, of course. Really looking forward to his return to the body of the kirk - a needed player and I hope his injury can largely be regarded as 'behind him'.

He hurt his shoulder in Round 17.  There was plenty of season before that for him to show those "great" attributes you speak of, but playing at Casey with a serious chip on your shoulder isn't going to help your chances.

[Members' Wing 1,106]

I poked my head in for 15 minutes this morning at Gosch's. I'll leave the observations on the minutiae of the drills etc to those who care more about that, but  my biggest take out from my limited time there was the increased size of Weideman across his whole upper body. He's now a really good size.

Whether he gets much game time this year I don't know, with TMac likely to go forward, but physically, he's now just about ready.

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

He hurt his shoulder in Round 17.  There was plenty of season before that for him to show those "great" attributes you speak of, but playing at Casey with a serious chip on your shoulder isn't going to help your chances.

Kent will be in rehab when he returns , after shoulder clean up, assume he was given a break program

 

[Roger Mellie 3,601]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

Kent will be in rehab when he returns , after shoulder clean up, assume he was given a break program

 

I thought he had a full shoulder reco? 

[The Chazz 4,077]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

Kent will be in rehab when he returns , after shoulder clean up, assume he was given a break program

 

I appreciate that, but that has nothing to do with him, and the 16 weeks leading up to the shoulder injury.

The post I was responding to seemed to paint it that the shoulder injury was a major setback for his season.  It wasn't.  Nb - I apologise if I misinterpreted what the poster meant.

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

13 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

I thought he had a full shoulder reco? 

Not sure,  thought it was a cleanup, stilll will be rehabbing though, reckon he has been told and knows he has to put it together this year or the door will be beckoning

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[The Chazz 4,077]

11 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Not sure,  thought it was a cleanup, stilll will be rehabbing though, reckon he has been told and knows he has to put it together this year or the door will be beckoning

 

Definitely wasn't a clean up.  Was more extensive surgery than that, but not sure of it was a full reco.

And Saty, I would be astonished if the club has told him that "he has to put it together this year or the door will be beckoning".  It would be a terrible way to start any player in a new preseason, especially one coming back from a serious should injury.  All it would take would be a minor setback during preseason, then the mind will likely take over and pack it in.  Players put that pressure on themselves, they know where they are at from a contract perspective, as well as a pecking order perspective.  The club doesn't need to put extra pressure on them, especially 12 months out from a possible list management conversation.

[Roger Mellie 3,601]

It certainly wont hurt him to ramp up his running if he's in the rehab group for a while. Needs to take it up a few levels to start running both ways.

[Demon trucker 1,779]

19 hours ago, tiers said:

Re Maxie's ripping body.

Many years ago, a St Kilda goal sneak named Lockett got fit and lost weight. Like Samson losing his hair, Lockett lost his strength and was a lesser player.

If Maxie is to become ripped, then he should rely on his height, leap, speed and tank to dominate his opposition. Engaging in wrestling matches could see him rapidly becoming less effective. This was Jeff White's undoing.

Sheedy use to say fat  blokes kick goals, the only thing is fat blokes do not make AFL lists anymore, Tony's skin  folds where 100 plus they won't get picked anymore

[Demon trucker 1,779]

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

Kent still on Hols?? He was on Hols all of the season gone !! Needs a friggen rocket!! 

If Van Ders is still injured then after a full year of I would seriously question whether he will get back!

He is in rehab all he can do is run laps don't need to do that early with the main group, he has been running lap for months, so that unfair am sure he is running everyday.