40 minutes ago, Garbo said:

Watts was on borrowed time as it stands, unless he found his 2016 form he would have spent more and more time in the 2nds. With Lever coming in, Tmac going fwd and Pedersen and Weideman playing the 3rd tall he would not have had a spot. Better to get something for him now than nothing in a year or 2

You don't think his 2017 form was good enough before he did his hammy? Honest answer please.

Are we seriously paying some of his salary as well? lol

Wow.

1 hour ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

You don't think his 2017 form was good enough before he did his hammy? Honest answer please.

Too an extent, if you take out his pinch hitting in the ruck due to Gawn been injured I would say he would be selected in the fwd line behind hogan, Tmac, Garlett and Petracca. He’s basically competing with Pedersen, Weideman and Hannan already for the last 2 spots. Hannan and Weideman both could go past him next year. Point is at the end of the day he had trade value, we have seen his ceiling in 2016 and he was imo starting to fall towards been a fringe player.

5 hours ago, goodwindees said:

Can't believe that anyone would be STUPID enough to think that Port would be in a position to bring anyone into their Club today on $500k  for the next 2 years.  FCS, have look at their list and who they've brought in this week. 

I texted SEN/David Schwartz during the Mahoney interview to make sure they asked Mahoney about how much Dees were paying of Watts' salary and Mahoney after a pause was VERY shifty & misleading. 

Can't believe Mahoney said that it would need to be worked out with his Manager.  It's got nothing to do with Paul Connors, it was agreed to with Cripps of PA that we are paying 40% for next 2 years  

Botom line is Dees are paying $200,000 per season for next 2 years. 

This is a statement trade by Dees but handled very poorly. 

I think if you wanted to write how to stuff up a trade/negotiation, look no further than the Dees & Bulldogs in 2017. 

Spot on. Best post in thread.

So I went back and read the start of this thread and it was like watching From Dusk till Dawn: normal, normal, normal, VAMPIRES WTF!?

7 hours ago, CityDee said:

This thing about club culture and the tough stance mark neeld anyone? It doesnt work with the younger generation , look what won the tiges the flag this year? Hardwick brought the group together , the watts sacking could have a lasting confusing effect on the playing group. 

It's well known in the footy industry Deledio was nudged out.  It didn't seem to set Richmond back. 

4 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

All the best Jack. Most of us who know something about football are going to miss your creativity, sublime skills and your on field presence.

Run for your life.  The intellectuals are coming. 

Happy to see the end of it. 

The footy world has been watching the Jack Watts stage show which was rolled out by the club 9 years ago and could never be shut down.   Wasn't helped by the buffoons in charge at the time and the player didn't help himself often displaying his cavalier approach to the game and his profession both on and off the ground.

A polarising and ultimately limited player that drew far too much energy, resources and attention.

 

Oh man, can you imagine how much heat the club will cop and especially Goodwin if we drop our first few or fail to make finals. 

I admire goodwins stance and hope it works out 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

It's well known in the footy industry Deledio was nudged out.  It didn't seem to set Richmond back. 

That's true & for those worried about carrying over part of Jack's salary, the Tiges still pay some of Lids. It's not so unusual...nor is it the end of the world.

Goody is a premiership player and one of the modern greats of the game. Anyone calling him out for this decision needs to reserve their judgement for the time being.

The side played with more flair and confidence than weve seen since Bailey's time and our list is as healthy as ive seen since the early 2000s. 

I am a fan of Jack Watts but he wasnt a vital player in our side. Sad to see hi go but we wont miss him on the field, especially if Hogan has a cear run at it. Tbh Losing Bugg with suspension hurt us more this year than Watts' injury.  

 

I hope this is not Goodwin being a malthouse.

He disliked Betts, Garlett and Robinson and look how that worked out for Carlton.

12 minutes ago, green_machine said:

I hope this is not Goodwin being a malthouse.

He disliked Betts, Garlett and Robinson and look how that worked out for Carlton.

Every coach in history rates players differently.  Every coach in history has ended careers.  And every coach in history has made mistakes. 

Picking out a decision here or there means nothing. 

7 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

DG , sorry but I need gumboots and a shovel.  2016 Watts was 5th in a Demons B&F with 38 goals and was 6th in 2017 B&F before injury. Last 2 years showed its mids that get the votes but Wattsy stood up. Watch his efforts v blues v cats v Tigers v Magpies v Bombers. Kicked crucial goals and for 5 weeks he Carried the ruck in Gawns absence. 

Was it training standards or consistency or performance?  Watts was very very good for 18 months.  Fact.  His skill and class won us games.  Clearly his injury and form suffered. 

History will judge the decision.  

Bs argument about watts in the b&f. Salem and Pederson both played less games than Watts and finished ahead.

7 hours ago, frankie_d said:

I wonder what Viney (Jack) thinks?

"I hope we win a flag next year"

Jesus Christ. Some posters might be better off calling beyond blue than spending time here.

20 minutes ago, green_machine said:

I hope this is not Goodwin being a malthouse.

He disliked Betts, Garlett and Robinson and look how that worked out for Carlton.

It might not be Goodwin (just Goodwin) here.

Little Jack Watts somehow agrieved the FD to the extent he was bannished.

This was never a "trade" it was excommunicated ( irony as demons) . 

His bags packed, nudged  out the door, given away and his fare paid.

And the many still dont see this as abhorrent. 

This whole episode says a lot about the club, or elements and for the most part i don't like it.

"The club" is entirely satisfied with the outcome. It also comes across as a shonky used  car dealer when pressed for detail. I find that amazing. I mean ..WTF is really going on at Melbourne.

There is the notion  Jack wasn't any longer a good fit. Given his actual performance and standing among his peers that makes little sense.

But even if that were the case would you go about transferring him out in the manner just witnessed ?

A lot of the official narrative just doesnt wash under scrutiny. It's a fiction in the main that borrows a number of elements  , twists some, invents others and then was sold on as bone fide.

Words are often cheap, actions speak. 

There's a lot about this season that screams BULLSHlT.

Jack's often described as ' icing' ...well he was certainly the icing on someones efforts !

Jack's now gone (how strange to even write that ) but reality of the club is probably no different.

Leopards and spots and such.

The FD now have much to prove. 

Go Dees

 

Is jumbo_returns still alive?

I went back and watched the first quarter of our r23 game vs Magpies because 1) I'm a masochist and 2) I hadn't seen it before. I was surprised by a couple of things namely how seemed to be all over them in general play however they scored some very opportunistic goals including a handful in the last few minutes of the quarter.

I specifically tries to take note of Watts for obvious reasons but also for some on here who claim he was the only one who came to play/stood up in the first quarter. Firstly it's not like we were asleep at the wheel in that first quarter like we've seen so often the players actually came to play but just couldn't finish off their work inside 50.

On to Watts - I didn't sight him until 14.20 or so left in the quarter so didn't touch the ball in the first 5 minutes. His first touch was a shirt hit up on half forward and a chip kick. He went 3rd man up and made a decent contest about 5 mins later winning the footy and kicking into the corridor from the wing.

I didn't really see him much again until about 5 mins to go in the quarter other than giving away a silly free kick inside 50 for push in the back and skirting the contest across half back. He did this again on the opposite wing/half back which allowed Treloar to possess the footy. He then failed to chase Treloar leaving it up to his teammate (Hunt?)

He made another couple of decent contests across half forward in the last couple of mins and a good tackle. He took a mark and kicked it forward bombing it up to Hogan after hesitating for a couple of seconds. Hogan was 1 on 2 or 3 and the Pies spoiled.

Overall he was all but unsighted for the first 10 minutes was better in the latter half of the quarter making a couple of good contests and laying a strong tackle but was largely ineffectual and made at least 3 poor efforts where he either skirted the pack and didn't chase to put pressure on.

Edited October 17, 20178 yr by Dr. Gonzo

has it been confirmed that we are paying part of his $1m salary over the next two years?

if so, what part?

that will really annoy me if so - i think pick #31 is sadly about his value, i.e. that of a player who is 9 years in and has never finished higher than 5th in the b&f and been dropped by every appointed senior coach he has played under

it's a very sad state of affairs

6 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Jack, good luck at Port and I sincerely hope you will as Teddy Whitten said, " STICK IT UP THEM! " ( Badloss and Mahoney). I will be barracking for the Demons of course when they play Port but I really hope you star against us. Make Badloss and Mahoney squirm. 

I don't. He plays for Port. I hope he gets gang tackled every time he goes near the ball. Just as I wish on every other player not wearing the red and blue. 

I reckon Garry Lyon summed things up quite well on SEN this morning. Link to it is here:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/10/17/popular-easy-and-safe-don-t-win-flags/

I think it's put things into perspective quite well. 

1 hour ago, DemonWA said:

Goody is a premiership player and one of the modern greats of the game. Anyone calling him out for this decision needs to reserve their judgement for the time being.

The side played with more flair and confidence than weve seen since Bailey's time and our list is as healthy as ive seen since the early 2000s. 

I am a fan of Jack Watts but he wasnt a vital player in our side. Sad to see hi go but we wont miss him on the field, especially if Hogan has a cear run at it. Tbh Losing Bugg with suspension hurt us more this year than Watts' injury.  

 

I couldn't care less about Goodwin being a premiership player. I suppose I'm willing to reserve my judgement about his being a decent coach, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest that he won't be the latest in conga-line of failures. I regard his inability to lead our team into the finals this year as a failure.

 

Watts was overall a disappointment, but he played well in 2016 and continued that form into 2017 until he was injured. We had plenty of worse performers (even most of our so-called leaders could do with more work on their skills). I can't believe we gave him away for pick 31 and that we still have to pay a large chunk of his salary.  

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I reckon Garry Lyon summed things up quite well on SEN this morning. Link to it is here:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/10/17/popular-easy-and-safe-don-t-win-flags/

I think it's put things into perspective quite well. 

"Goodwin cartel"

I like it. Can we start calling him The Don?

4 minutes ago, Jara said:

I couldn't care less about Goodwin being a premiership player. I suppose I'm willing to reserve my judgement about his being a decent coach, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest that he won't be the latest in conga-line of failures. I regard his inability to lead our team into the finals this year as a failure.

I think he would agree with you.

What's coach to do in light of such a failure?

More of the same, but with fingers crossed?