Farewell Jack Watts

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

I understand the adoration towards Jones - he's the heart and soul of the footy club, always puts in 110%, but at the end of the day, if we don't win a premiership in the next couple of years, Jones will just remind me of one of those guys at a company who worked  for 40 years in the same accounting role never achieving anything great. He's never won anything more than a handful of best and fairests for a bottom 6 side. He doesn't know what success is, and even Goodwin, who's premiership achievements were 20 years ago as a player, I'm not even sure about.

This whole FD, has never had any recent success, yet they somehow know that someone of Jack's DNA doesn't make up the blueprint for success?

If someone like a Geelong or Sydney pick up Jack and feel he can be part of their successful ways, then I guess history might look back at this decision and say "This FD didn't really know how to achieve success, but their single-mindedness led them to believe that someone like Jack can't be part of a successful team".

Edited October 8, 2017 by At the break of Gawn

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

3 minutes ago, fndee said:

Any chance those who would like Watts to stay also want what’s best for the Club? Or is that just the domain of the anti-Wattsers 

I see your point, but the club doesn't agree with you either.

I'm not saying keeping JW is not what's best for the club, I'm saying that the decision makers have the proper information to make the decision and I am backing their decision.

 

There is as much chance it is the wrong decision as the right decision. But we won't know until it happens. And if it is the wrong decision then they'll get fired.

We and the club will live on.

For me personally I don't care who plays for the MFC as long as they give 100% and the team is all on the same page.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Unleash Hell
Just to expand

[rpfc 28,493]

41 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

My view is the MFC would prefer Jack pull his finger out, and stay. But after years of encouraging him to do so are frustrated, and if he wont (pull said finger out), we'd be better off without him.

There's actually a fair bit of tough love and care in giving a player like Jack such a public correction. I've no doubt if Jack thrives elsewhere (or at the MFC) it will be due in no small part to the harsh reality check he's currently receiving.

 

 

I think it is quite obvious they are not keen on him to stay. They are pushing him to meet with any team that will meet with him and facilitate a trade. It is impossible to know if someone has 'pulled their finger out' in the off season. The fact that Watts was confused at the negative assessment from Goodwin and the FD that some on here have taken that he 'just doesn't get it' would not be correct in the reverse if he said all the right things in the last few weeks.

And that leads to the 'tough love and care' for Watts from Goodwin and Mahoney - it is a hypothetical we will never really know what affect this 'wake up call' will have on the bloke. My main issue is a lack clarity (what does Goodwin's 'stuck in a rut' mean exactly, and Mahoney talking about 'performance' when I think he meant preparation''), and the isolation of Jack on the Crusade of Commitment and Professionalism.  

[PaulRB 6,372]

2 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I understand the adoration towards Jones - he's the heart and soul of the footy club, always puts in 110%, but at the end of the day, if we don't win a premiership in the next couple of years, Jones will just remind me of one of those guys at a company who worked  for 40 years in the same accounting role never achieving anything great. He's never won anything more than a handful of best and fairests for a bottom 6 side. He, doesn't know what success is, and even Goodwin, who's premiership achievements were 20 years ago as a player, I'm not even sure about.

This whole FD, has never had any recent success, yet they somehow know that someone of Jack's DNA doesn't make up the blueprint for success?

If someone like a Geelong or Sydney pick up Jack and feel he can be part of their successful ways, then I guess history might look back at this decision and say "This FD didn't really know how to achieve success, but their single-mindedness led them to believe that someone like Jack can't be part of a successful team".

This is BS. Jack Watts is yet to believe or commit Jack Watts to undertaking the required essential to be part of a successful team, and indeed for that to to indeed be successful.

If Jack Watts had Jack Viney's professionalism, intensity and commitment to making himself a better player and winning, he'd be a dead set champion. But he doesn't, and he's weirdly surprised that the MFC think he should... 

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

2 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Something has happened behind the scenes and it is now getting ugly. While I am not against trading Jack,  I have to say that the club are handling this terribly. It does remind me of the Shane Woewodin trade where we went out and started advertising his salary. Lots of bad blood and not good for team harmony.

Jack has been fighting this in the media as well. Don't tell me that a camera crew just happened to bump into him at Adelaide Airport. That had been leaked and it wasn't in Melbourne's best interests for that to be in the public arena.

His 'press conference' at the TAB event was completely unnecessary. He was there in a completely different capacity and would have well have been in his rights to tell journos to nick off. 

I think the club would be better off just to turn the other cheek. Instead they have gone the way of the 2012 Labor party in now trying to nuke Jack's credibility into oblivion (almost like what the pro Gillard forces did to KRudd when he challenged for the leadership the first time). 

For those outside the leadership group, it's a horrible look. Some may be sympathetic to Nate's frustration with Jack but they would be wondering if they might be publicly humiliated should their performance not be deemed up to scratch.

I should reiterate, I have no issue with Jack leaving. He has had 9 years and as @Sir Why You Little said, we still talk about him like he is a first to second year player. That right there should show why this is even a discussion.

However, this is sloppy as hell and all the MFC should be disappointed with how this has played out.

I don’t see how else this could have been handled, as in it handled itself. 

As soon as Jack was “Door Stopped” at Adelaide Airport, it then becomes open

Gone are the days of keeping information like this in house. 

24 hour Sports Radio will always sniff out whats going on regardless of moral cred. 

What i find interesting is that the MFC has not put a price on Watty’s head 

even now i would not be suprised if he stays with us and this whole excercise is a premeditated rocket placed up Jack’s backside to get him fired up

Just a hunch, but usually there is a specific amount on a players head for starters. 

[PaulRB 6,372]

5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I think it is quite obvious they are not keen on him to stay. They are pushing him to meet with any team that will meet with him and facilitate a trade. It is impossible to know if someone has 'pulled their finger out' in the off season. The fact that Watts was confused at the negative assessment from Goodwin and the FD that some on here have taken that he 'just doesn't get it' would not be correct in the reverse if he said all the right things in the last few weeks.

And that leads to the 'tough love and care' for Watts from Goodwin and Mahoney - it is a hypothetical we will never really know what affect this 'wake up call' will have on the bloke. My main issue is a lack clarity (what does Goodwin's 'stuck in a rut' mean exactly, and Mahoney talking about 'performance' when I think he meant preparation''), and the isolation of Jack on the Crusade of Commitment and Professionalism.  

Agree, its hard to discern the full dialogue between the players in this saga, with public comments we hear, and undoubtedly many private, comments, meetings, etc... 

I know from working in the corporate sphere, when you let someone go, they've generally had several warnings, notifications, etc... before the axe falls. I've no doubt the FD have done likewise with Jack.

Edited October 8, 2017 by PaulRB

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I think it is quite obvious they are not keen on him to stay. They are pushing him to meet with any team that will meet with him and facilitate a trade. It is impossible to know if someone has 'pulled their finger out' in the off season. The fact that Watts was confused at the negative assessment from Goodwin and the FD that some on here have taken that he 'just doesn't get it' would not be correct in the reverse if he said all the right things in the last few weeks.

And that leads to the 'tough love and care' for Watts from Goodwin and Mahoney - it is a hypothetical we will never really know what affect this 'wake up call' will have on the bloke. My main issue is a lack clarity (what does Goodwin's 'stuck in a rut' mean exactly, and Mahoney talking about 'performance' when I think he meant preparation''), and the isolation of Jack on the Crusade of Commitment and Professionalism.  

In essence one of your complaints is that the club hasn't said enough? 

[CityDee 738]

The Watts critics are getting ahead of themselves ,  Jack has a lot of excuses that have neen outined in this thread he has done ok and is in our best 22 and is the player we need for the big stage , confident ball use and in front of goal , anyone see Betts and Walker capitulate on grand final  day? Watts wont do that . 

And again he has played in a 12 win team that has been scrambling really playing guys in different positions , Watts at sydney or geelong will be what we get from him in a year or two we will be watching it happen elsewhere and your happy with that . Crazy In my opinion. We dont have any perfect players on our list .

Jack for the good of our club tell us tomorrow your staying . 

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

9 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

This is BS. Jack Watts is yet to believe or commit Jack Watts to undertaking the required essential to be part of a successful team, and indeed for that to to indeed be successful.

If Jack Watts had Jack Viney's professionalism, intensity and commitment to making himself a better player and winning, he'd be a dead set champion. But he doesn't, and he's weirdly surprised that the MFC think he should... 

Paul, none of these players have had any success. I seriously can't take their word of what they think success looks like. It's like taking advice from a sprinter who trains the most but always finishes last. People thought Cotchin would never be a premiership captain, or Dimma a premiership coach... look at them now. 

Haven't heard anything from J Lewis on this yet. Perhaps he will back up Jones' views. 

[Gator 17,379]

So many on this site are governed by their "feelings".

Thankfully, those making decisions aren't.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I don’t see how else this could have been handled, as in it handled itself. 

As soon as Jack was “Door Stopped” at Adelaide Airport, it then becomes open

Gone are the days of keeping information like this in house. 

24 hour Sports Radio will always sniff out whats going on regardless of moral cred. 

What i find interesting is that the MFC has not put a price on Watty’s head 

even now i would not be suprised if he stays with us and this whole excercise is a premeditated rocket placed up Jack’s backside to get him fired up

Just a hunch, but usually there is a specific amount on a players head for starters. 

I think whoever is doing the club's PR needs to grab hold of Josh Mahoney and Nate Jones and give them different talking points.

The truth is that maybe this IS all Jack's doing and he is giving the young blokes a bad role model. However, I think that the response coming out of the club was average. They doubled down on Nate's original quote about having to pull Jack into line when they should have just played a straight bat.

Even Nate taking a swing initially was dumb. It gives sympathy to Jack when there really was no need to. It makes him look like 'poor old Jack' again.

Unfortunately, their heart has overruled their heads and it's clear they are not happy with the PR counterattack Jack has waged against the club. 

Put bluntly, I don't know if Jack realizes now that his position is getting close to untenable at the MFC. How can he front up to the club after his Adelaide doorstop and TAB 'press conference'? BTW, I have never seen a 150 game player with one top 5 finish in the BF in a weak club demand a press conference to talk about his playing future. It's clear that was engineered on his end and not because public interest initially demanded it. He has countermanded what the club would ideally would have liked. Plus, his relationship with Nate would take some work. It would come down to Jack ACTUALLY doing more than what is expected as opposed to half arseing it.

If he turns up to the B&F and makes a speech, we will learn a lot more.

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Colin B. Flaubert

[rpfc 28,493]

4 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

In essence one of your complaints is that the club hasn't said enough? 

Partly.

I would have loved it if the club directed the LG, Goodwin and Mahoney to say everytime Watts' name was brought up after a bad game - 'Jack? He will have his game assessed on Monday like any player. Today, our most important players were (insert negative adjective here) and our midfield didn't execute when it mattered. 

We let the fascination with Watts be a happy distraction from real questions on why we started like we did in Rd 23 and why we lost to Freo and why we lost to Haw and NM twice.

As for the post-season - I reckon they could have named, in addition to Watts, the 4 blokes who were pinpointed as being unprofessional during the season and a couple others I know struggle to take their career as seriously as they should.

[DeeZee 7,397]

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

So many on this site are governed by their "feelings".

Thankfully, those making decisions aren't.

Aren't feelings all we have?

When we win we feel happy, if we lose we feel sad, and we would be on top of the world if we won the flag.

Footy would be nothing without the emotion.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

7 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I think whoever is doing the club's PR needs to grab hold of Josh Mahoney and Nate Jones and give them different talking points.

The truth is that maybe this IS all Jack's doing and he is giving the young blokes a bad role model. However, I think that the response coming out of the club was average. They doubled down on Nate's original quote about having to pull Jack into line when they should have just played a straight bat.

Even Nate taking a swing initially was dumb. It gives sympathy to Jack when there really was no need to. It makes him look like 'poor old Jack' again.

Unfortunately, their heart has overruled their heads and it's clear they are not happy with the PR counterattack Jack has waged against the club. 

Put bluntly, I don't know if Jack realizes now that his position is getting close to untenable at the MFC. How can he front up to the club after his Adelaide doorstop and TAB 'press conference'? BTW, I have never seen a 150 game player with one top 5 finish in the BF in a weak club demand a press conference to talk about his playing future. It's clear that was engineered on his end and not because public interest initially demanded it. He has countermanded what the club would ideally would have liked. Plus, his relationship with Nate would take some work. It would come down to Jack ACTUALLY doing more than what is expected as opposed to half arseing it.

If he turns up to the B&F and makes a speech, we will learn a lot more.

 

I think you are reading to much into it myself. I don’t think the club has done anything wrong, other than be honest. 

Would you prefer the denial route for weeks on end?

Mahoney laid it all out there last week, if Jack wants to come back and work harder, he is most welcome. 

IF Jack Watts really loves the Club as stated, that is what he will do. 

If he walks to another club thinking it will be easier, Good luck with that

[jnrmac 20,100]

9 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Aren't feelings all we have?

When we win we feel happy, if we lose we feel sad, and we would be on top of the world if we won the flag.

Footy would be nothing without the emotion.

We're supporters. The club, its coaches and heirarchy hopefully have a better handle on their emotions than some on here.

Its blindingly obvious that the club has run out of patience with Jack. A 150 game player getting dropped doesn't tell you something? He is unreliable and can't be trusted to perform consistently. It is almost unanimous that he has elite talent but that talent is next to useless unless it can be honed into consistent, dedicated footballer. 

Sylvia had talent to burn. So what. Wasted 10 years with him.

Viney, Hibberd, Jones, Oliver are a few that perform consistently. You know that they will give week in week out. No-one can say that of Jack Watts sadly.

Edited October 8, 2017 by jnrmac

[Dr.D 1,771]

just because you're an outside player doesn't mean you dont have to go in hard when its your turn to go.  and thats why you cant build a culture with a repeat offender.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Dr.D

[CityDee 738]

5 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We're supporters. The club, its coaches and heirarchy hopefully have a better handle on their emotions than some on here.

Its blindingly obvious that the club has run out of patience with Jack. A 150 game player getting dropped doesn't tell you something? He is unreliable and can't be trusted to perform consistently. It is almost unanimous that he has elite talent but that talent is next to useless unless it can be honed into consistent, dedicated footballer. 

Sylvia had talent to burn. So what. Wasted 10 years with him.

Viney, Hibberd, Jones, Oliver are a few that perform consistently. You know that they will give week in week out. No-one can say that of Jack Watts sadly.

The players mentioned play well every week? Dont have weaknesses?  Are you watching or dreaming? You can give your all and play a bad game application is part of the equation . 

[Gator 17,379]

18 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Aren't feelings all we have?

When we win we feel happy, if we lose we feel sad, and we would be on top of the world if we won the flag.

Footy would be nothing without the emotion.

At trade time feelings are useless.

You use your logic valued against KPIs.

[Biffen 12,943]

10 minutes ago, ProDee said:

At trade time feelings are useless.

You use your logic valued against KPIs.

he rucked, he roved, he won games,he kicked straight for goals ,he set goals up.

What were Hannans KPIS or Jordan "fumbles" Lewis KPIs?

What were Vinces? Two goals  against per game from kick ins?

Edited October 8, 2017 by Biffen

[Socrates 45]

Gee some of the comments from the pro Trade Watts group are pure TRUMP like. I reckon some of you drink clubs bath water.

[faultydet 7,594]

55 minutes ago, ProDee said:

So many on this site are governed by their "feelings".

Thankfully, those making decisions aren't.

 

6 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Gee some of the comments from the pro Trade Watts group are pure TRUMP like. I reckon some of you drink clubs bath water.

I was actually thinking prior to reading ProDees quote, that we must have a majority of lefties on the Watts board, and was about to also make a reference to "feelings" over logic.

 

Many here need to consider the feelings of supporters who wish to win a flag.

Don't dreamers lives matter?

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Haha this could get out of control very quickly

#Flagsmattertoo

[chook fowler 19,459]

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Who will play Watts? 

Shirley Temple

[sue 9,107]

 

26 minutes ago, faultydet said:

 

I was actually thinking prior to reading ProDees quote, that we must have a majority of lefties on the Watts board, and was about to also make a reference to "feelings" over logic.

 

Many here need to consider the feelings of supporters who wish to win a flag.

Don't dreamers lives matter?

Geez this thread is descending into madness. Now we can tell a person's political leanings by their position regarding Watts.    Good grief.   

Dreamers come from both sides (as well as the waverers) in this discussion.    But I have to admit to being emotional.  Originally I thought trading Watts might be a good idea, but the arrogance of some of the posters here has made me change my mind.  How's that for emotion over logic.  I must be a communist.

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

3 hours ago, Sargent Shultz said:

Here is the speech that should be made on Monday.

Simon Goodwin "id like to apologise to the team, fans and to Jack Watts for my failure over the last few years as assistant coach and last year as senior coach to extract the performance from Jack that we all know he is capable of. Unlike how Harwick worked with Martin, and Thompson worked with Johnson etc, etc I decided to take the Howe/Buckley route and pass the problem player to another coach who can get the job done (Howe finished 4th in collingwoods B+F and nominated All Australian) I admit I don't know much about managing Millennials, they just don't respond the way my generation did"

Jack loved Goodwin at the end of last year. And was excited about him taking over as coach.

I believe assistant coach Neeld got on well with the players at the Filth too before he came to MFC with his hard nosed game plan and antiquated player management methods. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by ChewyOnMyBoot