2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Mismanagement.   TMac, harmes and Brayshaw reads very badly.

Deceipt                     Selling Tomlinson to Members as a wingman.

Mis-judgement        Lever

Well let’s analyse your post.

 Mismanagement: We contracted 3 players on the back of good years that all of us were desperate to keep. All were happy at the time. All clubs that sign players who lose form are clearly then mismanagers.

Deceipt: We got  a free agent who has a big tank and played mainly as a wingman. Now with us he is being used in other roles. Clearly the Pies were also deceitful when they recruited their best defender as a forward, but who proved better down back.

Misjudgement: Lever, now playing well and doing what he was recruited for. Yes ,a good example of misjudgement.

Edited October 22, 20204 yr by Redleg

11 hours ago, Die Hard Demon said:

Can someone please explain to me how the heck we are struggling to fit Ben Brown within our salary cap? We must have a side full of superstars..... fmd

All clubs have to pay 95% of the cap as a floor. So at best there was $650k unspent this year. With front/backloading the available money for three coming year could be anywhere from $0 to $1.5 mil.

Want to bring in Brown and Smith? Need to make some room.

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It was reported at the time Tomlinson's contract was about $500k pa. 

For the giants to get a 2nd round FA comp pick our package had to be well above average.  Given the AFL average was about $380k pa it is reasonable to think Tomlinson would be on at least the mid $400's. 

Aversge salaries include first year draftees, rookies and the Franklins of the game. Tomlinson, after 8-9 years in the system, is expected to be above average salary.

Edited October 23, 20204 yr by deanox

47 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Go argue with someone else. i could not care less about you if you are going to be arrogant.

hahaha... oh the irony.

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Sorry, but it is both. Brown got involved in Board politics and other......

I may be missing something here, but can you please inform me as to exactly how he was involved in Board politics?  I know he made comment on the possible shift to Tasmania (saying he'd love to see a Tasmanian team as the 19th team), but what else did he do?  Serious question, by the way.

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Well let’s analyse your post.

 Mismanagement: We contracted 3 players on the back of good years that all of us were desperate to keep. All were happy at the time. All clubs that sign players who lose form are clearly then mismanagers.

Deceipt: We got  a free agent who has a big tank and played mainly as a wingman. Now with us he is being used in other roles. Clearly the Pies were also deceitful when they recruited their best defender as a forward, but who proved better down back.

Misjudgement: Lever, now playing well and doing what he was recruited for. Yes ,a good example of misjudgement.

garbage

23 minutes ago, hardtack said:

I may be missing something here, but can you please inform me as to exactly how he was involved in Board politics?  I know he made comment on the possible shift to Tasmania (saying he'd love to see a Tasmanian team as the 19th team), but what else did he do?  Serious question, by the way.

Yeah you are missing something. Turned my back on you so go jump.

3 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Mismanagement.   TMac, harmes and Brayshaw reads very badly.

Deceipt                     Selling Tomlinson to Members as a wingman.

Mis-judgement        Lever

Let’s look back at the swell of people upset at what we were paying contract wise for the three at the time it was done. The same I reckon at Lever. You have to take their exposed form on face value and a confidence it will continue. 

I suspect there was little concern at the time due to their output other than the Harmes 5 year deal length.

With Tomlinson and Langdon I suggest we are not paying them in our top 5 but you clearly pay more to get them in than renew if you had them.

 

 

1 minute ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Let’s look back at the swell of people upset at what we were paying contract wise for the three at the time it was done. The same I reckon at Lever. You have to take their exposed form on face value and a confidence it will continue. 

I suspect there was little concern at the time due to their output other than the Harmes 5 year deal length.

With Tomlinson and Langdon I suggest we are not paying them in our top 5 but you clearly pay more to get them in than renew if you had them.

 

 

Defend all you like but the fact is we basically pay the same salary cap as everyone else and continually miss the finals and never achieve success. So the FGeelongs, Richmonds and all the others who have tasted success are better list managers than us. Thats all there is too it. Results. Not interested in your, but he came third in the brownlow type arguments.

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Let’s look back at the swell of people upset at what we were paying contract wise for the three at the time it was done. The same I reckon at Lever. You have to take their exposed form on face value and a confidence it will continue. 

I suspect there was little concern at the time due to their output other than the Harmes 5 year deal length.

With Tomlinson and Langdon I suggest we are not paying them in our top 5 but you clearly pay more to get them in than renew if you had them.

 

 

Are you sorry like me, that you bothered to answer his post? Summed up his own posts accurately himself, in his response  to mine” garbage”.

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Yeah you are missing something. Turned my back on you so go jump.

In other words, you invented an issue to support your own bias. No worries.

6 hours ago, Deeminion said:

Can he chop out in the Ruck? 

Certainly can. That’s why I am keen

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Defend all you like but the fact is we basically pay the same salary cap as everyone else and continually miss the finals and never achieve success. So the FGeelongs, Richmonds and all the others who have tasted success are better list managers than us. Thats all there is too it. Results. Not interested in your, but he came third in the brownlow type arguments.

Seems like you’re getting under everyone’s skin. Ever though that it just might be you?

I think Brown comes in if Tmc goes out. 
 

That’s where the $$$ come from imv 

 

 

From a disgruntled North Melbourne supporter:

''If Melbourne get Ben Brown for pick 23 that is such a ridiculous bargain and we are hugely losing that trade. I don't think too many people will be surprised when he comes back next year and wins the Coleman. The bloke is a top 3 full forward in the league, who had a down season in this mess of a year. I wouldn't trade him for a top ten pick but it seems inevitable that we are offloading him for a second rounder, so Melbourne (or whoever gets him) should be absolutely laughing. I've liked a lot of our offseason decisions, and nobody knows what's going on behind closed doors, but this one seems absolutely terrible from an outsiders perspective.''

7 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

We have 3 of the top 10 players in the league (champion data)

We paid overs to extract May and Lever and I assume Langdon and Tomlinson to a lesser extent.

We unfortunately triggered contracts on TMac, Brayshaw and Harmes and peak form that we have not seen since.

We have kept fringe players too long on deals too good (hence the clear out this year I anticipate).

i said in a different thread that concerningly the clearout isn't coming from our end. Hannan was offered 2yrs (outrageous) preuss is still contracted, anb wants more opportunities, tmac is contracted and 'wants to stay'. the club needs to get on the front foot and be aggresisive. 

i agree they all need to go and aren't up to scratch but the fact that its player driven not club is so wrong

4 minutes ago, Turner said:

i said in a different thread that concerningly the clearout isn't coming from our end. Hannan was offered 2yrs (outrageous) preuss is still contracted, anb wants more opportunities, tmac is contracted and 'wants to stay'. the club needs to get on the front foot and be aggresisive. 

i agree they all need to go and aren't up to scratch but the fact that its player driven not club is so wrong

Preuss and ANB are contracted, if the club wanted to keep them all they would have to say to anyone interested is it's not happening unless you offer us huge overs. Who knows what T Mc wants, but there's been enough smoke there to suggest the club would be keen on finding him a new home, they can't just boot him and his contract out the door. Crazier things have happened than the club stumping up for 2 years for Hannan if we wanted him.

I'm not sure aggression is a huge factor to decide if we turn over 8 or 12 of the guys rated 20-40 on the list. Contracts, who's available for free, strength of the draft etc matters more.

The aggressive moves involve trading in or out anyone who gets a game every week.

I like the idea of bringing in Ben Brown.
Assuming he wants to come to us and we can do a deal with North is this contingent on us offloading Tommy Mac?

Can we get Brown if we can't get rid of Tom? 

Where does that leave the other Brown?

I was impressed with Mitch in the little we saw of him. He works hard up the ground and can take a mark. I know he's getting up there in age but he presents better than Macca at the moment. 

19 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Back when teams had around 15-20 tackles a game.

Yep, however Robbie didn't need to tackle they chased him and he had the ball on a string. He had the skill set and some how knew  when to steal the ball from their hands when they  attempted to dispose of it .Was very crafty

On 10/21/2020 at 1:23 PM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

brown did pretty well with north's inefficient kicks i50

reckon he'd do pretty well with ours too

We literally have a 'ton' of small/mediums with talents. We really do not have a noted converter. Brown is an answer - he has good hands, gets frees, bustles well (shoulder strength is very good, but weak arms), kicks 'em long, short and at acute angles. Straight kick despite the weather conditions. Good muscle support from other taller forwards and resting rucks. Brown leads well to the ball, to the 'get it in there zone' and has some ability to avoid defenders on his way to a delivery. We do not need more feeders from the midfield - their job will be to hit targets on the move and with some tandem prongs up there, better coaching and plans, we have the best in the League across the midfield (Gawn, Clarry, Tracca, Brayshaw, Viney, et al). With Brown, our options would appear to be diversified and more reliable. Go hard for him! Box seat ain't good enough without his signature at the end. As a random speculation in the presence of the Angels, if we got Jesse back (albeit unlikely), it is a great tandem, mobile freaking forward line.

On 10/22/2020 at 10:59 AM, Wiseblood said:

3 at the very least you would think, considering he was holding out for 4 with North.

As LH mentions above, the wheels are certainly in motion from our end in terms of getting him across to the club, but I'd say the length of the contract and how much money is involved might be the deciding factor for Brown, especially if a few clubs are interested.

North offered 3 years with a 4th yr option @ $850k. And he knocked it back. Certainly has a high opinion of himself.

5 minutes ago, Mono said:

North offered 3 years with a 4th yr option @ $850k. And he knocked it back. Certainly has a high opinion of himself.

That happened after 2019 right? Which was his third consecutive season kicking 60+ goals? Playing for a club that didn't exactly have other stars (so where else was their minimum salary cap going to go)?

11 minutes ago, Mono said:

North offered 3 years with a 4th yr option @ $850k. And he knocked it back. Certainly has a high opinion of himself.

Maybe, but as titan mentions above, he was probably justified in his thinking.  He's kicked almost 200 goals across three seasons at an average club, so I think asking for what he did wasn't unrealistic.

But not taking the offer ended up being a poor decision for him, and you wonder now if he wishes that he just took the three year deal in the first place.

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

That happened after 2019 right? Which was his third consecutive season kicking 60+ goals? Playing for a club that didn't exactly have other stars (so where else was their minimum salary cap going to go)?

I was trying to make the point that

• North effectively offered him 4 yrs
• Money is a key determinant for Brown

Happily Melbourne has had no public media coverage about money a la Collingwood.

11 minutes ago, Mono said:

I was trying to make the point that

• North effectively offered him 4 yrs
• Money is a key determinant for Brown

Happily Melbourne has had no public media coverage about money a la Collingwood.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

8 hours ago, Demon Forever said:

Guys. It's all about posturing. The dees know NMFC want our pick 23. They have offered a modest low ball offer $$$ in a hope north pay some of his salary, just as we are trying to do with Tmac to move him on. 

The cash is there if we move the below players on. 

ANB - $350K

TMAC - $800K

OMAC - $300K

HANNAN - $250K

PRUESS - $350K

it's a game of who blinks first

 

Why would North pay some of his contract when he is out of contract. That sort of deal only happens when you trade a player in contract. Ie if we traded Tmac