47 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

That YOU don’t 

Actually I was using Inclusive Language to imply that the majority view appears to be an under appreciation of May. I personally believe that he will be an excellent addition to our squad. 

Our last four winning games; Eagles in Perth, GWS, Geelong and Hawthorn we kept the opposition to an average 66 points. This is with a backline that we will add Lever to next year. We already know that he will improve us considerably. 

Adding May will cost a minimum of a top ten pick which I believe could be better used as opportunities arise. The worse case scenario is we end up with very good pick in a supposed super draft 

Furthermore if you were either Oscar or Frostie you would be seriously ‘exploring your options’. 

I appreciate I am in the minority here but I’m happy to pass on May unless he comes relatively cheaply which isn’t going to happen 

Just a question.

If you had a pick 10, what can you get ? You get an early-ish roll of a die in a draft which might land you a decent player who in 2-3 years becomes serviceable after 40-50 games ( or might not )

OR

Get you a very handy KPB  with over a 10O games experience and ready to go...ready to impact.

I know what I'd choose.

4 hours ago, Rocky said:

how about oscar's unwillingness to be physical? apart from that one tackle on darling, i haven't seen any physicality whatsoever, and additionally he seems to lack urgency when the ball is on the ground or he misjudges it and it flies past him.. its like his boots are full of cement. i have come to admire his coolness with ball in hand, but the above failings will be his undoing. he just doesn't have that 'killer instinct' that a defender needs.

Yes Oscar has further improvement but he has made significant improvement year on year.  McCartney is directly involved with defence and I expect he'll be working hard with Oscar directly on these things.

20 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Just a question.

If you had a pick 10, what can you get ? You get an early-ish roll of a die in a draft which might land you a decent player who in 2-3 years becomes serviceable after 40-50 games ( or might not )

OR

Get you a very handy KPB  with over a 10O games experience and ready to go...ready to impact.

I know what I'd choose.

 Me too. 

The pointy end of drafts (pick 1 - 7) you are usually guaranteed a top line player but after that it is not a sure thing, even in a hyped up so-called “superdraft”. You might get a quality 200 gamer at pick 10 or you might get a guy like Nathan Freeman who amounts to bugga all and you’ve waited five years for the courtesy.

May is a known quantity and FFS can people please recognise that we are now entering a premiership window? Any club he goes to is going to get 80-120 games of quality lock down defending from a big bodied brute with good skills, pace and more than a touch of mongrel about him.

It’s a no-brainer. Hand over pick 10 in a heartbeat. 

 

Edited September 29, 20186 yr by EnterTheDragon

It is worth remembering the 6x6x6 at the centre square rule change, when looking at what we need in defence. 

With that rule change there will be no players behind the sqaure, no +1 in defence and no time for the ruckman to drop back and help defend.  Enormous additional pressure on the defence.

May is being highly sort after for a reason.

Edited September 29, 20186 yr by Lucifer's Hero

For posters obsessed with draft picks here is a list of pick 10’s selected at the AFL draft since 2010.

Daniel Gorringe, Liam Sumner, Troy Menzel, Nathan Freeman, Nakia Cockatoo, Harry McKay, Jack Bowes, Lochie O’Brien.

Wow what a veritable cavalcade of superstars!!

 

21 minutes ago, FarNorthernD said:

Our last four winning games; Eagles in Perth, GWS, Geelong and Hawthorn we kept the opposition to an average 66 points. This is with a backline that we will add Lever to next year. We already know that he will improve us considerably. 

Adding May will cost a minimum of a top ten pick which I believe could be better used as opportunities arise. The worse case scenario is we end up with very good pick in a supposed super draft 

Furthermore if you were either Oscar or Frostie you would be seriously ‘exploring your options’. 

I appreciate I am in the minority here but I’m happy to pass on May unless he comes relatively cheaply which isn’t going to happen 

This. 

To me, we didn't lose many games because of our defense. 

WCE prelim: our mids went missing. The whole team really. 

Collingwood, Richmond, Hawksduring season: our mids didn't run hard enough, allowing easy ball to enter our D50 on the rebound. We didn't tackle enough, and got comprehensively beaten all over the ground. 

PA, Sydney, Geelong x 2, St Kilda, we comprehensively won the inside 50 count but delivery i50 was bombing it long. The second Geelong match we allowed Hawkins to go nuts,  but that was lack of midfield pressure more than defense. 

The following key forwards, who May might play on, have kicked goals on us this year:

R1: Menzel 4.2, 

R2: n/a

R3: Brown 4.1, Waite 3.1

R4: Roughhead 3.1, O'Brien 3.0

R5: Reiwoldt 2.2

R6: Stringer 3.3

R7: n/a

R8: Day 2.2

R9: McKay 2.1

R10: n/a

R11: n/a

R12: Cox 5.1

R13: bye

R14: Westhoff 2.1

R15: McCartin 2.3, Battle 1.2

R16: Cox 2.0

R17: Schache 2.2

R18: Hawkins 7.0

R19: n/a

R20: n/a

R21: Franklin 2.5

R22: Vardy 1.1 

R23: Cameron 1.4

 

Other than Franklin, Hawkins and Cox, no one got of the leash. I just don't see big key defender as our weakness. 

Some are floating the idea that the Suns are better waiting until next year for better compensation. Against that he could get injured, lose form, lose interest or stand aside for a season then they get less or nothing for him. MFC should remind them of these outcomes and suggest the benefits of trading now , like we are with Hogan (probably)

5 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Some are floating the idea that the Suns are better waiting until next year for better compensation. Against that he could get injured, lose form, lose interest or stand aside for a season then they get less or nothing for him. MFC should remind them of these outcomes and suggest the benefits of trading now , like we are with Hogan (probably)

He’ll also be 28 before the start of the season. 

3 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

He’ll also be 28 before the start of the season. 

Prime !!

7 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

He’ll also be 28 before the start of the season. 

May plays all of next year as a 27 year old.  Edit: I see you're referring to the following year.

Some supporters have their red and blue goggles on.  Firstly, they underestimate May as a player, and secondly they overrate our defence.

With May in our side we're as capable as any other team to win the 2019 premiership.  Without May I can't see us winning.  Oscar, Frost and Lever are not a good enough grouping to win the flag.  Your tall defenders are crucial.

May is about as big a no brainer as it gets.

Edited September 29, 20186 yr by ProDee

11 hours ago, Skuit said:

May to me would mean Omac getting the squeeze. May and Lever provide the one and two key defender roles, and so Frost then offers more than Omac in combination with Jetta, Hibberd, and hopefully Hunt coming on again. Salem pushed up to half forward and Jones taking the Lewis role. Balance and rebounding weapons with an all-round defensive squad of hard-nuts. Sweet. 

Without hesitation, that is on the money. Great midfield in 2018, great forward entries, Nervous Nelly supporters whenever the OMac was required to come into play, that's if he was able to keep up with it. 

22 minutes ago, deanox said:

Other than Franklin, Hawkins and Cox, no one got of the leash. I just don't see big key defender as our weakness. 

You would be one of very few 'deanox'.

To me it's a huge problem, if we can get it sorted and add a bit of silk we are set.

26 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

For posters obsessed with draft picks here is a list of pick 10’s selected at the AFL draft since 2010.

Daniel Gorringe, Liam Sumner, Troy Menzel, Nathan Freeman, Nakia Cockatoo, Harry McKay, Jack Bowes, Lochie O’Brien.

Wow what a veritable cavalcade of superstars!!

The smarter way to look at this is look at who was available at that pick and taken later but  around the same spot. Here is a list of 2011-2015 drafted players taken pick 11-15. 

Toby Greene, Sam Docherty, Taylor Adams, Devon Smith, Dom Sheed, Patrick Cripps, Zac Jones, Liam Duggan, Jake Lever, Wayne MIlera, Ed Curnow, Eric Hipwood, Daniel Rioli.

It would look even better if I went out to 25 to allow for a full round of picks but I think you'll get the idea.

The 2012 draft was a bust but that's more than a handy list. With Jason Taylor's proven record I would back him to pick well.

21 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

The smarter way to look at this is look at who was available at that pick and taken later but  around the same spot. Here is a list of 2011-2015 drafted players taken pick 11-15. 

Toby Greene, Sam Docherty, Taylor Adams, Devon Smith, Dom Sheed, Patrick Cripps, Zac Jones, Liam Duggan, Jake Lever, Wayne MIlera, Ed Curnow, Eric Hipwood, Daniel Rioli.

It would look even better if I went out to 25 to allow for a full round of picks but I think you'll get the idea.

The 2012 draft was a bust but that's more than a handy list. With Jason Taylor's proven record I would back him to pick well.

That’s fair enough BRFE but if you factor in all the the duds as well it’s still very much a hit or miss situation between picks 10 - 15. 

Not saying these picks aren’t valuable - that’s why we’d be offering say a pick 10 up for May - just that they fall well short of the guaranteed star people often assume they will bring you. 

It’s probably more like a 50/50 chance, with the added stress of having to wait three or four years to find out whether they’re any good!

 

 

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by EnterTheDragon

1 hour ago, FarNorthernD said:

Our last four winning games; Eagles in Perth, GWS, Geelong and Hawthorn we kept the opposition to an average 66 points. This is with a backline that we will add Lever to next year. We already know that he will improve us considerably. 

 

And how did we go in our last losing game?

20 minutes ago, ProDee said:

May plays all of next year as a 27 year old.  Edit: I see you're referring to the following year.

Some supporters have their red and blue goggles on.  Firstly, they underestimate May as a player, and secondly they overrate our defence.

With May in our side we're as capable as any other team to win the 2019 premiership.  Without May I can't see us winning.  Oscar, Frost and Lever are not a good enough grouping to win the flag.  Your tall defenders are crucial.

May is about as big a no brainer as it gets.

Agreed. I think we can carry one of Oscar or frost, not both, and if we could get someone else as well that’s a bonus 

23 minutes ago, ProDee said:

May plays all of next year as a 27 year old.  Edit: I see you're referring to the following year.

Some supporters have their red and blue goggles on.  Firstly, they underestimate May as a player, and secondly they overrate our defence.

With May in our side we're as capable as any other team to win the 2019 premiership.  Without May I can't see us winning.  Oscar, Frost and Lever are not a good enough grouping to win the flag.  Your tall defenders are crucial.

May is about as big a no brainer as it gets.

Especially considering the marking power displayed by the Eagles yesterday. We have been beat up by big key forwards for years, it's one of our major Achilles heels.

42 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

 

Other than Franklin, Hawkins and Cox, no one got of the leash. I just don't see big key defender as our weakness. 

Menzel Brown and Roughy were more dangerous than Buddy. Not just in goals but assists

Its also about the holistic effect. May coming in changes the dynamic of our defence ( hopefully ) dramatically.

In BIG games...defense is EVERYTHING,,,exhibit A :  29/9/2018 !!

1 hour ago, EnterTheDragon said:

 Me too. 

The pointy end of drafts (pick 1 - 7) you are usually guaranteed a top line player but after that it is not a sure thing, even in a hyped up so-called “superdraft”. You might get a quality 200 gamer at pick 10 or you might get a guy like Nathan Freeman who amounts to bugga all and you’ve waited five years for the courtesy.

May is a known quantity and FFS can people please recognise that we are now entering a premiership window? Any club he goes to is going to get 80-120 games of quality lock down defending from a big bodied brute with good skills, pace and more than a touch of mongrel about him.

It’s a no-brainer. Hand over pick 10 in a heartbeat. 

 

And then some as it will cost more than that.

54 minutes ago, deanox said:

This. 

To me, we didn't lose many games because of our defense. 

WCE prelim: our mids went missing. The whole team really. 

Collingwood, Richmond, Hawksduring season: our mids didn't run hard enough, allowing easy ball to enter our D50 on the rebound. We didn't tackle enough, and got comprehensively beaten all over the ground. 

PA, Sydney, Geelong x 2, St Kilda, we comprehensively won the inside 50 count but delivery i50 was bombing it long. The second Geelong match we allowed Hawkins to go nuts,  but that was lack of midfield pressure more than defense. 

The following key forwards, who May might play on, have kicked goals on us this year:

R1: Menzel 4.2, 

R2: n/a

R3: Brown 4.1, Waite 3.1

R4: Roughhead 3.1, O'Brien 3.0

R5: Reiwoldt 2.2

R6: Stringer 3.3

R7: n/a

R8: Day 2.2

R9: McKay 2.1

R10: n/a

R11: n/a

R12: Cox 5.1

R13: bye

R14: Westhoff 2.1

R15: McCartin 2.3, Battle 1.2

R16: Cox 2.0

R17: Schache 2.2

R18: Hawkins 7.0

R19: n/a

R20: n/a

R21: Franklin 2.5

R22: Vardy 1.1 

R23: Cameron 1.4

 

Other than Franklin, Hawkins and Cox, no one got of the leash. I just don't see big key defender as our weakness. 

You forgot to add the prelim final where we were torched by Kennedy and Darling.

If you haven’t got the defensive artillery to halt guys like that it doesn’t matter if it’s only three or four key forwards in the league who worry you, the point is you’re NOT going to win the premiership. 

At some point in the finals, without a top line back six, you’re going to come a cropper. 

54 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Some are floating the idea that the Suns are better waiting until next year for better compensation. Against that he could get injured, lose form, lose interest or stand aside for a season then they get less or nothing for him. MFC should remind them of these outcomes and suggest the benefits of trading now , like we are with Hogan (probably)

Two things.

1. May isn't Cam McCarthy, he wont sit out a year.

2. The AFL will ensure the club they put millions into will get priority 1 compensation for May if he leaves, whether he were to miss most of the year or not.

7 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

Frost has been good this year and played well to his strengths as well described in tecent posts.  But his other weakness on display particularly in the last two finals was aerial - he misjudged and drpped crucial marks. 

I think OMac's strength issues will be more easily overcome.  He is on a curve of improvement 

...self doubt/belief. confidence/self-trust can drop too easily under big game pressure.

@deanox what would say we should improve?

Here is my perceived needs list in order:

1. Outside player with elite skills to driver into the forwards 

2. Tall defender to allow Oscar to play on the ubiquitous 2nd ruck and Lever to play on the third tall

3. Natural small forward to play at the feet of Preuss/Gawn and Weideman

None are glaring - we came fourth - but each have their own impacts should we successfully address them. We have a dominant midfield but we don’t kick the ball Inside 50 well, hence the number one priority. We then get sliced apart on the counter with a patchwork defence that contains a few NQR players amongst Lever, Hibberd, Jetta, and Salem. The third priority is somewhat ameliorated by the first but at the moment we have former midfielders playing a role that is unsuited to them (even though they are giving it a red hot show).

So getting someone like May is second on my list for us to push for a flag. That is hard to argue against when discussing maximising the value we get from a trade. Does it matter if we get what we need?