Changes vs Hawthorn

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

18 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 he spends the entire game watching his own team play, rather than what individuals from the opposition are doing.

If Goodwin gave them, then it'd be different. 

 Does that extend to a supporters forum like demonland?

Steve I'm not going to bang on about the same issue but I will say that your comment about a coach spending the entire game watching his own team play hugely off the mark.  I spent a year in the coaches box, admittedly about 10 years ago, and I can assure you that the coach spends as much time watching the opposition as he does his own.  He has assistant coaches who watch "their" group and their opponents and will give regular feedback to the coach.  The coach will have his own take.  There are stats people in the box giving continual feedback on what the opposition is doing and I'd imagine from my day the stats are significantly superior.  I think you are quite wrong about coaches not knowing what the opposition players are doing.

As far as who I listen to and how far it extends that is based on two things.  Firstly their experience in the game and secondly the quality of their observations and how accurate they have been historically.  I also look to their dogmatism on issues and their ego.  But having worked in an AFL environment for a number of years it is absolutely clear to me that experienced AFL footy people have forgotten more about footy than the vast majority of those here know.  So when JKH is retained in the team when everything I see says he shouldn't be there rather than call the FD idiots I question where I've gone wrong.

 

[Skuit 10,031]

1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

So when JKH is retained in the team when everything I see says he shouldn't be there rather than call the FD idiots I question where I've gone wrong.

 

What was your conclusion?

Some vague KPI's set to a very low bar?

Well that seems a bit idiotic, but . . .

Maybe they're being patient and see him as a future week-in-week-out best 22?

Well that seems a bit idiotic, but . . .

Perhaps the club has magical genetic-transplant equipment at its disposal?

Makes sense. I was wrong to question their wisdom.

[Demon Dynasty 17,131]

1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Steve I'm not going to bang on about the same issue but I will say that your comment about a coach spending the entire game watching his own team play hugely off the mark.  I spent a year in the coaches box, admittedly about 10 years ago, and I can assure you that the coach spends as much time watching the opposition as he does his own.  He has assistant coaches who watch "their" group and their opponents and will give regular feedback to the coach.  The coach will have his own take.  There are stats people in the box giving continual feedback on what the opposition is doing and I'd imagine from my day the stats are significantly superior.  I think you are quite wrong about coaches not knowing what the opposition players are doing.

As far as who I listen to and how far it extends that is based on two things.  Firstly their experience in the game and secondly the quality of their observations and how accurate they have been historically.  I also look to their dogmatism on issues and their ego.  But having worked in an AFL environment for a number of years it is absolutely clear to me that experienced AFL footy people have forgotten more about footy than the vast majority of those here know.  So when JKH is retained in the team when everything I see says he shouldn't be there rather than call the FD idiots I question where I've gone wrong.

 

That is my understanding Vogon.  The coaches box has access (as they all do and have had for many years now of course) to Champion data feed and, for the most part, it is a live feed (with some minor delays on select stats) that the FD's stats ppl, in conjunction with coach and line coaches, can review at any point and at the end of quarters to see how the team is going overall and/or individuals across lines etc. My understanding is Champion has 10 people covering each match. 5 at the ground collecting stats and 5 back at base on the video rewinding/reviewing and updating stats that go a little deeper than the basics being taken at the ground such as pressure receives, pressure acts, meters gained etc.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

17 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

Being 10 goals up at 3/4 time against GWS, and then Scully gets 25 possies in the last, kicks 8, breaks Tracc's leg, gives Clearance an ACL, and gives Max religion who then retires. (and GWS win)

Yeah ok thats worse.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

Makes sense. I was wrong to question their wisdom.

Nobody is saying you can't question their wisdom, we are saying you should question yours at the same time.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Looking forward to how wisdom plays on sunday.

[Diamond_Jim 12,688]

13 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Looking forward to how wisdom plays on sunday.

Norman Wisdom is one of my favourites .... scintillating mid fielder:

 

[Cards13 9,117]

22 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Nobody is saying you can't question their wisdom, we are saying you should question yours at the same time.

"We"? Nice. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Cards13

[old55 23,834]

2 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

"We"? 

Yes

[leave it to deever 17,592]

THE LAST TIME THEY MET

Melbourne 17.8.110 defeated Hawthorn 11.15.81 in Round 20, 2016 at the MCG

Max Gawn had 41 hit outs, 16 possessions and 11 marks to drive a famous victory for the Demons who prevailed over the Hawks for the first time in a decade.

 

Was a great game but Pederson has a lot of weight on his shoulders.

[beelzebub 23,390]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

THE LAST TIME THEY MET

Melbourne 17.8.110 defeated Hawthorn 11.15.81 in Round 20, 2016 at the MCG

Max Gawn had 41 hit outs, 16 possessions and 11 marks to drive a famous victory for the Demons who prevailed over the Hawks for the first time in a decade.

 

Was a great game but Pederson has a lot of weight on his shoulders.

Might be very similar scoreline.

Go Dees

[Demons1858 1,789]

Interesting to see the changes.

Jhk would be getting an extended opportunity to see if he can fill the difficult small forward role and develop into the next jeff garlett. This week would have to be his last chance.

With Wagner back so quickly its clear Melksham was getting a game given the injuries to other backs and should find form at Casey and come back better. Wagner could be handy with hawthorn having 3 medium talls plus roughead.

Kent needs to string some performances together before being considered l would think. Has been a bit disappointing so far this season although last week was apparently better. Seems injured alot so starting to wonder whether he works hard enough or is  just one of those players

Trengrove ... deserves a game but appears destined for Casey. Not tree right fit for our needs this week in any case

[beelzebub 23,390]

On 2017-4-30 at 5:48 PM, McQueen said:

I know, I know. We've just won and should savour it longer but just like the team we need to look ahead.

Out: JKH, ANB

In: Trengove, Kennedy

My egg eating friend, i wonder if you haven't stumbled upon something interesting.

I speak of the forgotten man. He's hardly put a foot wrong since recovery from being wrong footed.

Jack  , i fear will be continually overlooked for a senior mid role. Hard to break in there.

There is a position on the field though that currently requires filling.

Needs someone who can be where the ball is, or will be, can find a bit of space from time to time, can mark solidly feet on ground or get a little 'up' and hold them. Someone who can apply strong defensive 'pressure' ..can tackle ( convincingly even ) , someone who knows where the sticks are and can kick them even if not that strong beyond 40m.

Arguably not lightning quick of foot but has good evasive nous.

Would be , imho, a huge improvement on current incumbents. 

Gives 100% doesn't slack off.

I wonder 

[In Harmes Way 7,840]

23 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Steve I'm not going to bang on about the same issue but I will say that your comment about a coach spending the entire game watching his own team play hugely off the mark.  I spent a year in the coaches box, admittedly about 10 years ago, and I can assure you that the coach spends as much time watching the opposition as he does his own.  He has assistant coaches who watch "their" group and their opponents and will give regular feedback to the coach.  The coach will have his own take.  There are stats people in the box giving continual feedback on what the opposition is doing and I'd imagine from my day the stats are significantly superior.  I think you are quite wrong about coaches not knowing what the opposition players are doing.

As far as who I listen to and how far it extends that is based on two things.  Firstly their experience in the game and secondly the quality of their observations and how accurate they have been historically.  I also look to their dogmatism on issues and their ego.  But having worked in an AFL environment for a number of years it is absolutely clear to me that experienced AFL footy people have forgotten more about footy than the vast majority of those here know.  So when JKH is retained in the team when everything I see says he shouldn't be there rather than call the FD idiots I question where I've gone wrong.

 

So with all that data Vogon, and experienced eyes, they should come to conclusions quicker than us. So when Sam Frost was persisted with in the forward line last year when he couldn't hit the side of a shopping centre with his kicks for goal, where did the system fail? The FD were about half a season behind DL on this one...

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

8 minutes ago, small but forward said:

So with all that data Vogon, and experienced eyes, they should come to conclusions quicker than us. So when Sam Frost was persisted with in the forward line last year when he couldn't hit the side of a shopping centre with his kicks for goal, where did the system fail? The FD were about half a season behind DL on this one...

There would be a well reasoned response to that question if you asked them.  I don't know what it is and the explanation you got might show they were wrong in their thinking but nothing is done without thought and good reason. If you had the explanation I'm guessing you'd learn quite a lot.

[McQueen 17,867]

5 hours ago, beelzebub said:

My egg eating friend, i wonder if you haven't stumbled upon something interesting.

I speak of the forgotten man. He's hardly put a foot wrong since recovery from being wrong footed.

Jack  , i fear will be continually overlooked for a senior mid role. Hard to break in there.

There is a position on the field though that currently requires filling.

Needs someone who can be where the ball is, or will be, can find a bit of space from time to time, can mark solidly feet on ground or get a little 'up' and hold them. Someone who can apply strong defensive 'pressure' ..can tackle ( convincingly even ) , someone who knows where the sticks are and can kick them even if not that strong beyond 40m.

Arguably not lightning quick of foot but has good evasive nous.

Would be , imho, a huge improvement on current incumbents. 

Gives 100% doesn't slack off.

I wonder 

I  still think he'll get a game or two before seasons end and will ultimately be traded because I reckon he's best 22 at one of the poorer performing clubs.

Full credit to him for fronting up being one of the best performers week in, week out. He knows he's got something to give the competition and he's dedicated to that cause - be it with the MFC or elsewhere.

[Cranky Franky 2,204]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

There would be a well reasoned response to that question if you asked them.  I don't know what it is and the explanation you got might show they were wrong in their thinking but nothing is done without thought and good reason. If you had the explanation I'm guessing you'd learn quite a lot.

The well reasoned response would be - we stuffed up even though we are paid a lot of $$ a year to get it right.

It really pees me off when drunks in the outer can spot the obvious a month before the highly paid coaches can work it out.

The use of Frost as a forward last year is a case in point & the idiocy of ignoring Cam Pedersen for several weeks probably cost us a game or 2.  The fact that Bernie Vince is not a defender seems to have finally clicked & the penny about JKH will eventually drop.

 

[Stingray 157]

With ANB out our kicking accuracy should automatically improve this week - just need to keep Bernie in the middle and stop him kicking out and we are golden! Go the d's!