Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[deelete my account 1,194]

 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Whether it be Cameron Mooney, Leigh Matthews, or Dwayne Russell, many in the media are complaining about Jake Lever's decision to leave the Crows after just 3 years.

I won't bother mentioning Scott Thompson, and I recognise there are some differences with his move, but what about Josh Caddy leaving the Suns after just two years ?  He was pick 7 in the 2010 draft and wanted out after his two year contract was up.

Not a word in the media.

I know there will be other examples, but it appears there's selective outrage in the AFL industry.

Until the AFL impose 4 year contracts (And [censored] with kids mental health), then it's what goes around comes around. People are behaving as if clubs recieve no compensation.

[Pates 9,660]

23 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

False charges by a bitter Adelaide Crows franchise.

Do they not realise he is from Vic?  Scott Thompson is a mercenary too then.

I feel like Lever is the straw that broke the camels back, Adelaide seem like they’re losing quite a few players to interstate clubs and Lever is an easy target to get angry with because he’s a young up and comer and he is choosing us specifically. 

Scott Thompson’s defection to Adelaide stung me for quite a while, almost more than the likes of Scully and Farmer. We always knew he was going to be a gun and he was injury riddled at our club but we stuck fat and helped him through it. I still remember his management saying “he’s given good loyal service to the MFC” and I just thought, pull the other one! 

This will sting for the Crows, and all I can say to them is suffer in your jocks!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Whether it be Cameron Mooney, Leigh Matthews, or Dwayne Russell, many in the media are complaining about Jake Lever's decision to leave the Crows after just 3 years.

I won't bother mentioning Scott Thompson, and I recognise there are some differences with his move, but what about Josh Caddy leaving the Suns after just two years ?  He was pick 7 in the 2010 draft and wanted out after his two year contract was up.

Not a word in the media.

I know there will be other examples, but it appears there's selective outrage in the AFL industry.

Scully? Double standards.

[KingDingAling 3,757]

I have always liked:

IN - Jake Lever AND Adelaide 2018 first round pick.

OUT: Melbourne 2017 first AND second round pick, and 2018 first round pick.

I have seen this mentioned before, and on big footy a month or so back.

I read something in draft and trading the other day about proposing this to Adelaide if they wanted to get nasty. That way both clubs could put up their 2018 first round pick and bet on having a good year. This is the trade I would make in a heart beat. It would say to Adelaide "Look, if you don't like our 2017 first and second round pick, then we will exchange your 2018 first round picks". It is a big FU to a club that thinks they are being hard nosed. It is saying to them "right, if you think you are all that then put your money where your mouth is". We may be able to bluff them into giving up Lever, and their 2018 first round pick. Considering we didn't even make the finals this year, and Adelaide made the top 4 - they SHOULD back themselves in with that deal. Hopefully if made they dropped out of the 8 in 2018 and we made the top 4 (which we will).

[Lucifers Hero 39,779]

Adelaide have themselves to blame. 

They let a kid, Jack Graham go thru to Richmond's pick 53 in last years draft.  He captained the SA under 18' team last year and won the Larke Medal. 

Last Saturday, in the GF he kicked 3 goals against the Crows and took Sloane out of the game after Qtr time.

They have received a lot of stick in SA about that oversight.  So if they chose local talent they wouldn't have a 'go home' problem and the GF may have not been such a debacle for them.

So Adelaide are smarting over the GF loss, the Jack Graham flak and are now all fire and brimstone towards Lever and Cameron for wanting to leave. 

I suspect the name Jack Graham will haunt them for a very long time and if they every want him to 'come home' they will pay big time.  What goes round, comes round

Edited October 5, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[worldwideweb_demon 90]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

Whether it be Cameron Mooney, Leigh Matthews, or Dwayne Russell, many in the media are complaining about Jake Lever's decision to leave the Crows after just 3 years.

I won't bother mentioning Scott Thompson, and I recognise there are some differences with his move, but what about Josh Caddy leaving the Suns after just two years ?  He was pick 7 in the 2010 draft and wanted out after his two year contract was up.

Not a word in the media.

I know there will be other examples, but it appears there's selective outrage in the AFL industry.

Do mention Thompson. The football world should take note cause we keep getting screwed. We didn't even get Adelaide's first pick for him.

Now would you take a young Lever or a young Thompson?? Both have had some injuries at the start of their careers.

[Redleg 40,914]

19 minutes ago, worldwideweb_demon said:

Do mention Thompson. The football world should take note cause we keep getting screwed. We didn't even get Adelaide's first pick for him.

 

Well actually we did get their first pick.

[faultydet 7,594]

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

Well actually we did get their first pick.

Wasn't it 12, and we sent that to Geelong for Moloney?

[Redleg 40,914]

3 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Wasn't it 12, and we sent that to Geelong for Moloney?

Yep.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Pates said:

I feel like Lever is the straw that broke the camels back, Adelaide seem like they’re losing quite a few players to interstate clubs and Lever is an easy target to get angry with because he’s a young up and comer and he is choosing us specifically. 

Scott Thompson’s defection to Adelaide stung me for quite a while, almost more than the likes of Scully and Farmer. We always knew he was going to be a gun and he was injury riddled at our club but we stuck fat and helped him through it. I still remember his management saying “he’s given good loyal service to the MFC” and I just thought, pull the other one! 

This will sting for the Crows, and all I can say to them is suffer in your jocks!

It IS the great issue with the Draft. An Adelaide supporter pointed out to me that the last time Port and Adelaide met in a derby there were only 11 South Australians playing.

This is becoming and will become an even bigger issue.

Only dogs like Scully will abandon kith and kin for many bucks. Most of them are human. They miss mum...

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

56 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Adelaide have themselves to blame. 

They let a kid, Jack Graham go thru to Richmond's pick 53 in last years draft.  He captained the SA under 18' team last year and won the Larke Medal. 

Last Saturday, in the GF he kicked 3 goals against the Crows and took Sloane out of the game after Qtr time.

They have received a lot of stick in SA about that oversight.  So if they chose local talent they wouldn't have a 'go home' problem and the GF may have not been such a debacle for them.

So Adelaide are smarting over the GF loss, the Jack Graham flak and are now all fire and brimstone towards Lever and Cameron for wanting to leave. 

I suspect the name Jack Graham will haunt them for a very long time and if they every want him to 'come home' they will pay big time.  What goes round, comes round

Yep i thought that during last saturdays game. 

The Crows are going to be very shitty and extra hard to deal with

Jack Graham know doubt has phoned home to remind them

[daisycutter 29,614]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yep i thought that during last saturdays game. 

The Crows are going to be very shitty and extra hard to deal with

Jack Graham know doubt has phoned home to remind them

i'm not worried

mahoney will stick basically to his offer because it is essentially fair. eventually it will be accepted. crows won't let him go to the draft

let's worry about other fish

[worldwideweb_demon 90]

Had to look it up again but I believe Adelaide finished 5th last. After 3 priority picks, this was pick number 8 in the draft. They obtained picks 12 and 28 from West Coast after giving Tyson Stenglein.

I was more sad to lose one of my favourites Jeff Farmer when he wanted to go home. We got back pick 17 for that. Shows how fair we are when our players want to move back home.

Personally, I don't mind if no deal is reached and Lever goes into the draft - serves them right if they get nothing. At the end of the day, we don't lose anything if they are being pricks.

[deebug 1,754]

3 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

You got a source for that joke?

Yes Juddy's grandma

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

40 minutes ago, dieter said:

It IS the great issue with the Draft. An Adelaide supporter pointed out to me that the last time Port and Adelaide met in a derby there were only 11 South Australians playing.

This is becoming and will become an even bigger issue.

Only dogs like Scully will abandon kith and kin for many bucks. Most of them are human. They miss mum...

There's not enough talent coming out of SA for two teams. How many were drafted last year from there, 5?

[buck_nekkid 5,858]

I have been thinking on ‘what is he worth’ (and it extends to Watts, and everyone else).  A draft pick takes effort and resources to develop into a player.  The pick has ‘potential’ but no evidence of performance capability.

So when we think of Lever, he was a first round pick that has had investment in his development, and we believe that he has long term potential and demonstrated performance capability.

We can get in draft picks and pay them a lower salary.  Or else we can bring in players and pay for their development elsewhere (and hopefully decrease the risk that we take in getting them ready to go).  In terms of salary, bringing in a low risk, low cost to develop option is definitely worth more than a developing young player who has yet to deliver on their potential.  Players that pass through development and show that they can play move into the category of lower risk assets, and are worth additional salary.  (This is where it looks like Adelaide screwed up).

From a ‘trade value’ scenario, it really depends where you are relative to your list development.  If there is a scarcity for specific talent that we need to complete a part of our list, then paying ‘overs’ is acceptable.  If the list is shoddy or full of holes, then going for young potential through the draft is higher risk - but if you are not a serious contender is a lower cost strategy that makes sense.  This is where we have been for the last decade.

If you know there are higher quality talent (risk, but lower risk) in the draft, and you dont have immediate need, then trading for the right picks seems wise.  List management also requires a continuous back fill of talent so that you have ‘depth’.

So return to the issue at hand:  What should we pay Lever and pay for Lever?  Probably overs in terms of contract, and overs in terms of pure replacement pick (so a first and a second).  What should we get for Watts?  Probably unders - we wont get a first pick, and probably a second round pick would be appropriate.  That is, unless we can find a suitor that has a specific need that they are trying to fill.  He is worth more to us (if he puts the shoulder to the wheel) than his market value because of his 9 years of demonstrated ‘performance’ and unfulfilled ‘potential’.

Dealing between clubs is not about ‘winning and losing’ (outcome bias), but about serving our needs.  If the club determines that getting Lever for two first round picks is value to us, then so be it.  It is not about the deal for Danger, Mitchell, or whomever.  This just biases the conversation (and why Burton from Adelaide is a clown).  Get the best you can, relative to current need, and get on with chasing the flag.

Between filling a few holes in the list, and seeing some significant development in talent on the way up, I think we are well placed.  We dont need too much from the draft, so the picks are better used traded out to get what we need in terms of already developed and performing talent.

[deelete my account 1,194]

One thing missing from the Lever discussion with Adelaide, is that isn't this Equality at work? A team that finished 1st can't afford to pay all of their players and they have to be squeezed out and a team that is in the middle of the ladder that hasn't used their entire cap can afford him.

[Ted Lasso 19,516]

1 minute ago, Deeprived Childhood said:

One thing missing from the Lever discussion with Adelaide, is that isn't this Equality at work? A team that finished 1st can't afford to pay all of their players and they have to be squeezed out and a team that is in the middle of the ladder that hasn't used their entire cap can afford him.

I think levers manager basically said he might well have stayed if the first offer wasn’t an absolute joke. 

They’ve totally screwed this up 

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

32 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i'm not worried

mahoney will stick basically to his offer because it is essentially fair. eventually it will be accepted. crows won't let him go to the draft

let's worry about other fish

Yes i agree. It may take a few days to settle

[Males 578]

I wonder if Tex Walker was [censored] at Bernie for leaving the Crows too? Tight arse wouldn't of rang and abused Bernie though, he was living at Bernie's house, wouldn't of wanted to get kicked out. ?

[DeezNuts 624]

I AM A BE-LEVER!!!! ?

[Ethan Tremblay 30,858]

4 hours ago, Males said:

I wonder if Tex Walker was [censored] at Bernie for leaving the Crows too? Tight arse wouldn't of rang and abused Bernie though, he was living at Bernie's house, wouldn't of wanted to get kicked out. ?

Walker is just jealous of Lever because he has perfect ears. 

[bing181 9,233]

4 hours ago, Males said:

I wonder if Tex Walker was [censored] at Bernie for leaving the Crows too? Tight arse wouldn't of rang and abused Bernie though, he was living at Bernie's house, wouldn't of wanted to get kicked out. ?

Bernie was "let go" by the Crows and didn't have much say in it.

[DemonOX 8,791]

3 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Walker is just jealous of Lever because he has perfect ears. 

And doesn’t talk like he is reading from a que card (provided that tex can read of course). 

[dee-tox 4,835]

Anyone see a trend in Goodwin's modus operandi? Guys who can handle themselves physically. Melksham, Johnstone and Lever are very handy boxers. Piggy Hibberd doesn't back away from anyone... Out with the soft c***s and in with the tough bar stewards!