14 minutes ago, DubDee said:

don't agree.  The coaches more a lot more than the umps

2 key forwards won the coaches award - Barry Hall and Treadrea 

Reiwoldt won an MVP

defenders seemingly get screwed by everyone!

Wow over many years and you came up with hall and treadrea, so since them 2 all other winners have been midfielders?  you can go back to old days to find forwards win brownlows also, is reiwoldt the only forward to win the MVP? So once in a blue moon a forward wins the coaches award and MVP.

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The deal is not done yet:

"...Michael Warner told On the Couch:...“Five years, $900,000 a season,” he revealed to gasps from panel members Jonathan Brown and Jason Dunstall...The Crows will come after the Grand Final pretty hard and I think they’ve got some more money to offer.”

TBH, I don't give a lot of credence to anything Warner says/writes.  But I wouldn't be surprised if the Crows open their cheque books for Lever. 

But Lever seems a genuine kid so if he says he is leaving he is leaving.  It would be really disappointing if he/his manager have used us as a bargaining chip, as his team mate Tom Lynch did two years ago.

So let me get this right...

Rumours that the Crows low-balled him around $300k and now rumour that they're prepared to offer him >$900k?

 

5 years and 900k is what he will be paid on average over the life of his contract.  We might back end it or front end it to suit what we currently have on the books and what we may have in the future, but the days of them being paid that same amount every year are well and truly over.

It's nothing to be worried about.

2 hours ago, McQueen said:

So let me get this right...

Rumours that the Crows low-balled him around $300k and now rumour that they're prepared to offer him >$900k?

I think some convenient reporting is happening to create headlines and stories.  From my reading the sequence has been:

• circa $300k was reportedly Crows opening offer early in 2017 - probably their 'strict formula' for a 3rd year player.  Who knows if it increased during early negotiations.
• He put off talks to see what the CBA looked like.   
• In the meantime other clubs came in, with WB reportedly set to offer $800-850k. 
• CBA done and clubs were given a $2m sal cap windfall to spread around. 
• I recall reading the Crows then offered $600-$650K. 
• CBA done but now Lever decides to wait till the end of the season. 
• Lever made the AA squad after the Crows' reported offer of $600-$650k. 
• At some stage MFC joined in.  The figure I saw reported a few weeks ago in The Age was MFC's offer of$750k+.
• With the AA gong it makes sense the Crows would revisit their offer. 

So do the Crows need to pay >$900k Warner says MFC have offered? (btw Warner's doesn't have a good track record for accuracy, headlines are more his thing).  Conventional wisdom is that players will stay at a club for less than other offers. 

I guess it depends how much he wants to get back to Vic.  Nonetheless, I doubt the Crows will let him go without another try to keep him.

Sorry response is a bit lengthy but thought I would use your question to summarise happenings, as per my interpretation of events and reports.

Edited September 27, 20177 yr by Lucifer's Hero

don't think crows will get into a bidding war. warner is a nothing trying to big note

crows can cover for lever. he is not that vital to their structure. other crows have good/better cases for pay rises

just journos try to hype it up

So Warner is saying we are now offering Lever $900k a year for five or that the Crows are?

Jay Clark is apparently saying we are offering $750,000 over 5 years which is probably more close to the mark.

23 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Jay Clark is apparently saying we are offering $750,000 over 5 years which is probably more close to the mark.

might well be that ( 750 ) front loaded at 900

but....who knows...only rumours 

Will be interesting to see how he plays in the Granny. Not too flash in the prelim against Girlong. Anyway 900 for a half back flanker is way overs.

13 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Will be interesting to see how he plays in the Granny. Not too flash in the prelim against Girlong. Anyway 900 for a half back flanker is way overs.

Good thing he is not a half back flanker.

He is the prototype AFL defender who standing at 195cm can play tall and small given his array of attributes. He is an AA defender at 22 years of age.

Well done to all those who keep saying we'll be paying overs. You have no idea.

The amount reported only confirms how desperate the club is to land a genuine top line key defender. In fact it says an enormous amount about our current three. Frost and O Mac are uknown. Tom is still turning the ball over at crucial moments from 15 metres.

Lever is everything we need and then some.

Edited September 27, 20177 yr by stevethemanjordan

4 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Good thing he is not a half back flanker.

He is the prototype AFL defender who standing at 195cm can play tall and small given his array of attributes. He is an AA defender at 22 years of age.

Well done to all those who keep saying we'll be paying overs. You have no idea.

The amount reported only confirms how desperate the club is to land a genuine top line key defender. In fact it says an enormous amount about our current three. Frost and O Mac are uknown. Tom is still turning the ball over at crucial moments from 15 metres.

Lever is everything we need and then some.

sorry, he's not in AA team

2 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Good think he is not half back flanker.

He is the prototype AFL defender who standing at 195cm can play tall and small given his array of attributes. He is an AA defender at 22 years of age.

Well done to all those who keep saying we'll be paying overs. You have no idea.

The amount reported only confirms how desperate the club is to land a genuine top line key defender. In fact it says an enormous amount about our current three. Frost and O Mac are uknown. Tom is still turning the ball over at crucial moments from 15 metres.

Lever is everything we need and then some.

Firstly, he is not an AA and quite frankly no one would have had him close to the team. He was listed in the squad but was never going to make it.

The fact that no other club is willing to spend that kind of money on him is just as telling, despite you having more of an idea than all of us that don't want to pay overs for him and the 17 other AFL clubs.

Where would you rank him with our younger players? Oliver, Hogan, Viney, Petracca and Lever. Can you please order them 1-5 so I can get an understanding. 

 

Just now, daisycutter said:

sorry, he's not in AA team

If you say he is enough times does that make it true.

I've list count how many times in this thread he's been referred to as a AA defender

21 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

Well done to all those who keep saying we'll be paying overs. You have no idea.

 

 

We are absolutely paying overs.  But sometimes you have to to get what you want.

2 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

 

We are absolutely paying overs.  But sometimes you have to to get what you want.

Especially if they are AA players...

Crows win the flag and everyone in that Team is going to want a pay rise. Good luck with keeping everybody with Lever first cab off the rank......

18 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

sorry, he's not in AA team

Yes he is. As if Steve would get that wrong. It clearly says AA player on the poster he has of Lever over his bed. Maybe he is an emergency. 

Or maybe steve has confused lever with laird - who is an AA. Easy mistake to make. Same jumper after all. A tip for all recruiters - if keen on  player jot down his number. its on the back of his jumper.

But seriously, of course steve means he will be an AA at some stage. For sure. Then we will have 4 AA defenders. Not too shabby. 

 

6 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Wow over many years and you came up with hall and treadrea, so since them 2 all other winners have been midfielders?  you can go back to old days to find forwards win brownlows also, is reiwoldt the only forward to win the MVP? So once in a blue moon a forward wins the coaches award and MVP.

yeah...that, or there have been 3 KPF that have won either CA or MVP in the same time when zero won a brownlow

you know, just using information to back up my argument

 

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Good thing he is not a half back flanker.

He is the prototype AFL defender who standing at 195cm can play tall and small given his array of attributes. He is an AA defender at 22 years of age.

Well done to all those who keep saying we'll be paying overs. You have no idea.

The amount reported only confirms how desperate the club is to land a genuine top line key defender. In fact it says an enormous amount about our current three. Frost and O Mac are uknown. Tom is still turning the ball over at crucial moments from 15 metres.

Lever is everything we need and then some.

Lever plays half back flank for the Crows. The position is changing and he has great intercept skills - reads the play beautiful, strong in the air and then whilst not a great kick he gets the ball moving quickly. Has an excellent side step.

What he hasn't done so far in his career is ever (from what I've seen) defend a tall opponent one on one. He might become that but he hasn't done it yet and so it's a pretty blind leap of faith if we are going to use him in that role. Making him accountable to a tall would limit a lot of his strengths - particularly his intercepting and attacking drive.

I think he's worth a lot of money (not stupid 900k but a lot) in his current role and that's how I'd use him. Maybe once he fills out he can transition to a tall defending role but for now I'd keep him roaming on a flank.

There's always the draft, trades and delisted free agents to find a decent lock down tall.

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

What he hasn't done so far in his career is ever (from what I've seen) defend a tall opponent one on one.

He's that smart he doesn't let himself get caught in positions where has has to wrestle with a gorilla one-out.

I watched him closely in the GWS first final.  A GWS player has the ball at half back and is kicking long down the line to a contest on the wing.  Lever has Rory Lobb, who he gives 3-4 inches away to.  As the ball left the boot, Lever bumped into Lobb and put him off his line.  Lobb didn't even make the drop of the ball.

Later in the night, when Patton wanted the ball put on his head in the pocket, Lever stood 5 meters in front of Patton and just blocked his leading space.  If the GWS player kicked it high onto Patton's head, Lever backed himself to get back in time and fly for the spoil.  Wrestling is not his go.  Playing smart is.

Oscar and Frost are still crucial to play on the Daniher, Riewoldt, Brown types, with Lever taking a less dangerous forward and zoning off for the most part.  And when it is Lever's turn to mind a Ben Brown, he'll certainly play it shrewdly.

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Lever plays half back flank for the Crows. The position is changing and he has great intercept skills - reads the play beautiful, strong in the air and then whilst not a great kick he gets the ball moving quickly. Has an excellent side step.

What he hasn't done so far in his career is ever (from what I've seen) defend a tall opponent one on one. He might become that but he hasn't done it yet and so it's a pretty blind leap of faith if we are going to use him in that role. Making him accountable to a tall would limit a lot of his strengths - particularly his intercepting and attacking drive.

I think he's worth a lot of money (not stupid 900k but a lot) in his current role and that's how I'd use him. Maybe once he fills out he can transition to a tall defending role but for now I'd keep him roaming on a flank.

There's always the draft, trades and delisted free agents to find a decent lock down tall.

Agree with all your points. I suspect he will always play the zone off, intercept marking role rance has perfected. I reckon in time TMacs younger brother will be bigger than than Lever and maybe the go to one on one player when required (goody favours a heavy zone but flexibility is important). 

Technically lever is not the best kick in the world but he is pretty effective. As you say he moves the ball quickly and he also makes really good decisions (the two are linked obviously).

As for the money i really can't see him getting 900k from the dees. Terrific player but a big part of his success at the crows, particularly this season, is, their incredible all field pressure which result in so many bombed, sloppy kicks (easy picking for a player of his ability) and how effective the rest of the backline is, particularly Talia.

Both the Crows and the tigers have very similar approaches and it is no surprise both are in the granny. It is an approach we are clearly aiming to emulate and my concern for Lever is that if we don't apply the same level of pressure he won't be able to have the same impact as he does at the crows. So the worry is not that Lever does not have the ability but that us getting value from him depends factors outside his control. 

1 minute ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

He's that smart he doesn't let himself get caught in positions where has has to wrestle with a gorilla one-out.

I watched him closely in the GWS first final.  A GWS player has the ball at half back and is kicking long down the line to a contest on the wing.  Lever has Rory Lobb, who he gives 3-4 inches away to.  As the ball left the boot, Lever bumped into Lobb and put him off his line.  Lobb didn't even make the drop of the ball.

Later in the night, when Patton wanted the ball put on his head in the pocket, Lever stood 5 meters in front of Patton and just blocked his leading space.  If the GWS player kicked it high onto Patton's head, Lever backed himself to get back in time and fly for the spoil.  Wrestling is not his go.  Playing smart is.

Oscar and Frost are still crucial to play on the Daniher, Riewoldt, Brown types, with Lever taking a less dangerous forward and zoning off for the most part.  And when it is Lever's turn to mind a Ben Brown, he'll certainly play it shrewdly.

Talia and Hartigan were on those talls most of the game though. Lobb isn't a smart footballer. Not sure about that actual contest but I'd expect another player was on Patton and he came in 3rd up.

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

 

We are absolutely paying overs.  But sometimes you have to to get what you want.

We're probably paying overs for 2018. For 2022, maybe not so much.

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

Talia and Hartigan were on those talls most of the game though. Lobb isn't a smart footballer. Not sure about that actual contest but I'd expect another player was on Patton and he came in 3rd up.

Yep. A more revealing example was how Dangerfield out marked him at the start of the Crows cats game. No shame in getting out marked by danger but it was a pure one one contest rather than the more common zoning off Lever employs. Leverr tried to spoil without taking the body (like say Dunn or talia would have) and missed it, gifting Danger an easy mark (which he even had time to juggle). Don't get me wrong i'm not having a shot at him merely highlighting that man on man is not his go. 

How is this place going to go off when we don't land him? (no info, but I reckon this website would melt quicker than Godzilla's underpants!)