1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

Both, given May and Lever feature strongly.

Lever is a must get.

 

He will stay with Crows.

44 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

but he then isn't listed in the top one-on-one contests, go figure.

Yes.

It's a headf*#^

Edited June 9, 20178 yr by stevethemanjordan

Tonight just made it harder to get him.

14 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-09/key-to-defence-back-yourself-and-team-structures

Some more stats for the stat lovers.

 

thankyoumuchlystevetheman. Stat Heaven. And an unusually reflective AFL.com article.

Firstly: Intercept Possessions? If Tmac intercepts in defense and passes off to O-Brother Where Art Thou is that an intercept-possession stat for Oscar?

Spoils? Is there a 'spoils lost' stat for flying in a pack or crossing for coverage and allowing your direct, grounded opponent to score? It won't come up in the one-on-one column . . . or anywhere else. Both Macs have been highly guilty of this this year (with Goody's encouragement). Omac could pick up 8.8 spoils this way yet leak four goals for failed attempts and still be considered elite in this category without a losing corresponding stat. 

Of note:

Tmac is pretty much nowhere to be seen. Is he just average at everything?

Lynden still one of the top one-on-one defenders. Yet jettisoned. Just another confirmation of where our priorities are at. But top-five in meters gained? Do kick-outs get recorded?

Maybe a bit of reach? Talia for e.g. has five one-on-ones per match. He wins 49% (2 and a half contests) of those and loses 16.5ish (one and a bit), with the other 35% split. Across ten games that's 50 one-on-one contests for the season with 24.5 won, 8.25 lost and 17.25 split. A couple of those go the other way and the percentages change quite dramatically.

Surprised not to see Kade Simpson in any of the stats. But haven't watched much Blues this year at all. Has he dropped off dramatically, or is it an issue with stats being assessed after a position is determined? (note: Kade here is being used as a synecdoche for my point).

Alex Rance is a dick. Out.

.

9 hours ago, alpha33 said:

Tonight just made it harder to get him.

Or does it ?

I would agree his 'price' is steadily climbing

Am waiting for the std rollout of 'announcements' 

Does he stall or not ?

12 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Or does it ?

I would agree his 'price' is steadily climbing

Am waiting for the std rollout of 'announcements' 

Does he stall or not ?

We had our chance and the Tigers Doctor ruined it. 

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We had our chance and the Tigers Doctor ruined it. 

Hardly his fault. Did his job properly...unlike some perhaps.

Until Jakes signs with crows..is a possibility..if not a probability

3 hours ago, Skuit said:

 

Tmac is pretty much nowhere to be seen. Is he just average at everything?

He has been playing more ruck and forward so far this year which probably affects his overall defensive stats.

I feel bad for asking this because I really rate Brayshaw as a player and as a clubman (I like him wearing the red and the blue), but who would you take at pick 3 now: Brayshaw or Lever?

Lever was apparently seriously considered by the MFC for this pick at the time.

 

7 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I feel bad for asking this because I really rate Brayshaw as a player and as a clubman (I like him wearing the red and the blue), but who would you take at pick 3 now: Brayshaw or Lever?

Lever was apparently seriously considered by the MFC for this pick at the time.

 

lever, in a heartbeat.

kid is all class

39 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

lever, in a heartbeat.

kid is all class

 

46 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I feel bad for asking this because I really rate Brayshaw as a player and as a clubman (I like him wearing the red and the blue), but who would you take at pick 3 now: Brayshaw or Lever?

Lever was apparently seriously considered by the MFC for this pick at the time.

 

In hindsight we'd take Lever, however we couldn't foresee what was going to occur with Gus.

Having said all that and whilst many were pushing Stevie May, who don't get me wrong is a gun defender and would provide massive improvement, Lever to me has some outstanding leadership and culture building qualities.

I think he'll stay at the Crows but jeysus I'd love to see him in the Red & Blue for 2017 and beyond  

Edited June 10, 20178 yr by Pennant St Dee

55 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I feel bad for asking this because I really rate Brayshaw as a player and as a clubman (I like him wearing the red and the blue), but who would you take at pick 3 now: Brayshaw or Lever?

Lever was apparently seriously considered by the MFC for this pick at the time.

 

We were screaming out for midfield depth at the time, I'd have gone with Angus. 

If we stocked up on young defenders instead, we'd be arguing that we are going back to  2012...and we need midfield depth.

i haven't written off Angus just yet. He's 22 in January. Give him time.

Edited June 10, 20178 yr by small but forward

2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I feel bad for asking this because I really rate Brayshaw as a player and as a clubman (I like him wearing the red and the blue), but who would you take at pick 3 now: Brayshaw or Lever?

Lever was apparently seriously considered by the MFC for this pick at the time.

 

We needed midfield talent and depth at the time, so Bradshaw was the best choice. MFC did seriously rate Lever and wanted to get him, but they were looking at taking him and hoping he could develop into a big bodied midfielder ala Nat Fyfe, Josh Kennedy, Jobe Watson etc. Don't think that would've worked, he's definitely a defender. 
It's just unfortunate what has happened to Gus injury wise, as he is clearly a talented footballer and was what we needed at the time. You only have to look at his first season to see what he can produce and the impact he can have. There's still plenty of time for him to get over his issues and fulfil his talent. On output thus far though Lever is obviously ahead because he's been on the park more.

We should be throwing the kitchen sink at Lever. With him down back, we would be far more settled and have better depth. I'm assuming the club will make him a big offer and if he wants to come across then we'd have to find enough compo for Adelaide. First rounder plus a player?

Edited June 10, 20178 yr by Lord Travis

We were keen on Lever at 3, however that was if the Saints took Petracca at no.1. We would then have gone Brayshaw and Lever. Ergo, we rated him higher than McCartin; which would've been considered a highly left field choice (as was Clarry at no.4 a month prior to the draft).

Taylor and co at very astute judges of talent.

8 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I feel bad for asking this because I really rate Brayshaw as a player and as a clubman (I like him wearing the red and the blue), but who would you take at pick 3 now: Brayshaw or Lever?

Lever was apparently seriously considered by the MFC for this pick at the time.

 

We had the chance to take the All Australian CHB in Trengove's draft, but took Gysberts. I went to the MFC draft function thinking we would get Talia with our 3rd pick, as we knew the first two and was furious when I was told we would take Gysberts, who I didn't know anything of. I remember sitting there thinking gee I hope this Gysberts boy is good, as most knew Talia would be a very good player.

We have stuffed up so many picks before Taylor came, it would be comical, if it wasn't so sad. Destroyed any chance we had of recovering.

At the time Brayshaw was better at 3 than Lever. We have what we wanted. I'm running with that. 

Shlt happens.

Not to suggest Gus is....just his bad run of luck.

But what is...is

I'd like Gus up and firing.

I'd like Lever in our backline.

Shlt happens

Yeah. If you look at our midfield, Jones, Vince, Lewis are getting on. Oliver, Viney, Tracca are A grade. We definitely needed Brayshaw as much as Lever. In fact, in a couple of years, we'll need to have found 4-5 really good midfielders. Harmes, Melksham, ANB could carry some of that weight.

11 hours ago, Thrice said:

We were keen on Lever at 3, however that was if the Saints took Petracca at no.1. We would then have gone Brayshaw and Lever. Ergo, we rated him higher than McCartin; which would've been considered a highly left field choice (as was Clarry at no.4 a month prior to the draft).

Taylor and co at very astute judges of talent.

I don't think that's true. I seem to remember Roos stating publicly that McCartin, Petracca and Brayshaw were the clear standouts and we were always going to take the two St. Kilda didn't. I think Emma Quayle quoted our recruiters as rating McCartin first in one of her books (I read that second hand so don't take it as gospel). Certainly, Lever was in the mix and would have been a better pick than Gus but that's hindsight for you. In fact if we had our time again I'd be taking Petracca and Peter Wright, not Lever.

Hopefully Weid ends up being the goods because Charlie Curnow is well ahead of him at this point in time too. Taylor has done an excellent job but you can't get them all perfectly right. We also took Salem ahead of Cripps. Not a bad decision per se, just not the perfect one.

8 hours ago, Sylvia Saint said:

I don't think that's true. I seem to remember Roos stating publicly that McCartin, Petracca and Brayshaw were the clear standouts and we were always going to take the two St. Kilda didn't. I think Emma Quayle quoted our recruiters as rating McCartin first in one of her books (I read that second hand so don't take it as gospel). Certainly, Lever was in the mix and would have been a better pick than Gus but that's hindsight for you. In fact if we had our time again I'd be taking Petracca and Peter Wright, not Lever.

Hopefully Weid ends up being the goods because Charlie Curnow is well ahead of him at this point in time too. Taylor has done an excellent job but you can't get them all perfectly right. We also took Salem ahead of Cripps. Not a bad decision per se, just not the perfect one.

I remember when Roos said that and thought he was bluffing.  In part because he is a master at playing with a straight bat and in part because I thought McCartin was a strong, burly (lesser) Hogan type and and we didn't need two of the same.  I thought we would be better off with a different type of forward eg 2 meter Pete (or later a Weideman type).

So if StK had taken Petracca at #1, I would not have been surprised to see us pick Brayshaw and either Lever or Wright.

 

On 10 April 2017 at 10:38 PM, Axis of Bob said:

A lot of talk about the quality of Oscar McDonald. I think it's important to see how the development of key defenders is generally different to most players.

Oscar gets pushed around a bit by the really powerful tall forwards (Hawkins is one) but he competes a hell of a lot better with them than almost every key defender of his age and experience. At this point in their careers (just turned 21 years old):

• Frawley was playing as a medium defender (on smaller marking players),
• Tom Mc was playing as a back up to Frawley and Dunn, 
• Harry Taylor was not yet drafted
• Brian Lake was still undrafted (and was still Brian Harris!)
• Heath Grundy had played 11 games in 3 years as a forward. His games were ... underwhelming.
• Ted Richards has played 12 games at Essendon as a forward. Very underwhelming.
• Josh Gibson had not yet debuted (and would not debut for another year too)
• Ben Stratton had not yet been drafted.
• Zac Dawson spent that season and the following season in the Hawthorn VFL team.
• Sam Fisher had not yet been drafted
• Ben Rutten had played 2 games as a struggling forward.
• Dale Morris was still a year away from being drafted in the rookie draft.
• Rance had just rejoined the team having spent the majority of the previous year in the VFL (he was being kept of the AFL side by Luke McGuane, Kelvin Moore and Will Thursfield!)
• Scott Thompson was still not yet drafted
• Sam Rowe was still 4 years away from being drafted!
• Jeremy McGovern was still a year away from being drafted

Now, far be it for me to labour a point, but it takes key defenders a lot longer than most players to develop into AFL standard (even the exceptional ones) because their job involves being able to physically compete with big, physically strong opponents. Oscar does this very well at this stage, given that he is not yet fully physically developed. He is tracking waaaaaaaaayyyyyyy ahead of where he should be at this stage. We're very lucky there.

 

Great post.

I still recall a bunch of Richmond supporter mates calling for Rance's demotion in his 5th year on the list and lamenting his inability to hit a target and that he "had no idea what he was doing out there."

It's amazing how with some valuable experience things seem to just "click" one day for a lot of players. Oscar has shown enough for me to be excited, he just needs to develop some real power in his core and have that sudden realisation of what he is really capable of.

On 02/06/2017 at 9:21 PM, Lord Travis said:

Watching Crows vs Cats tonight and Lever is bigger than I thought. Also playing with more mongrel than I remember.
I reckon he would be a perfect target for us. First round pick to Crows, good cash offer to Lever, bring him across and our key defenders are sorted. Oscar can then develop at Casey and may be decent long term.
Kid has leadership potential too as he is touted as Adelaide's next captain by their fans.

And I thought that, overall, Bruce highlighted Lever's weakness.

On 2017-6-2 at 10:01 AM, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm a believer in Champion Data stats and analytics. It stacks up. TMac is one of the best defenders in the league regardless of the criticisms Melbourne supporters have 

I find it funny how many people on dl constantly point out how useless stats are. Probably the same people who yell 'just kick it' at the footy all day like it is still 1981.

You only have to listen to coaches post match pressers or even those in match on ground chats to get a sense of how important stats in their totality (as opposed to isolated stats) are to clubs. Clubs that pay big dollars for the data, the software to analyse it and employees to pore over their and other clubs stats.

Lever played another great game. As the third defender. The adulation at present comes from his reading of the play and his rebounding with good decision making not his ability to stop a primary forward. 

15 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Lever played another great game. As the third defender. The adulation at present comes from his reading of the play and his rebounding with good decision making not his ability to stop a primary forward. 

sounds ideal for a zone defence to me