Training - Monday 23 January, 2017

[dazzledavey36 48,746]

Hope they are extra cautious with Gus. Calfs can be one of the most frustrating and debilitating injuries going around. We have seen It ruin Chris Dawes career at the dees to Harley Bennell missing a whole year with it last year.

[AllMyTeamsAreWank 563]

Does anyone know where they're training on Friday? I have the day off work and would like to go watch the boys train. 

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Id like to get your view on Trengove as I'm a huge fan but fear that his pace will still hold him. So many times i have heard Saty say players like Grimes, Mckenzie look slick during pre season only to get caught out come match day. This is where my fear of of Trenners is at.

Everybody looks slick in the preseason, every man and his dog knows it counts for nothing come game day, if you must dig, then try something less obvious.

Grimes and McKenzie in their day were 2 of the best trainers at the club and stood out during sessions

Trengove is showing signs that he may have turned the corner and is back to the player he was pre injury, whether this enough to get him into the team with the players we have now, who knows, but I am sure if he is successful he won't let the team down

Edited January 23, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

15 minutes ago, AllMyTeamsAreWank said:

Does anyone know where they're training on Friday? I have the day off work and would like to go watch the boys train. 

No they have long weekend off before the QLD camp

[AllMyTeamsAreWank 563]

Just now, Satyriconhome said:

No they have long weekend off before the QLD camp

Bugger. Thanks Saty. 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Id like to get your view on Trengove as I'm a huge fan but fear that his pace will still hold him. So many times i have heard Saty say players like Grimes, Mckenzie look slick during pre season only to get caught out come match day. This is where my fear of of Trenners is at.

Dazzle I've been a track watcher for many years now and I've learned it's very difficult to judge how a lot of things on the track translate to game situations. For example slick ball movement at training turns into preseason rust in games.  I put Trengove's pace in this category.  I think if you went and looked at last years training threads you'd see similar comments from many regarding the "return" of Trengove's pace.  My position is that I can see no difference to other years and until I do I'll remain sceptical.  In the 10 v 10 drills we are doing at present it's very easy to find space and have time to dispose although yesterdays session was more contested. Nobody is caught out for pace in these drills to date.

My view is pretty simple and again differs from Saty.  Trengove is all class.  If he has the pace he had when he first came he'd be one of the first picked each week, he wouldn't be in the pack chasing the last few spots in the best 22.  If he doesn't have that pace he'll struggle to sustain an AFL career IMO.  Those that compare him to greats such as Bartel, Lewis and Mitchell (to name a few) are underrating those players pace IMO.  In the last few seasons Trengove hasn't been just slow, he's been painfully slow, slower than Brock McLean who couldn't chase down any of the three players I've mentioned.

I freely admit we won't know until firstly the practice matches start and more probably the season proper.  But training is like dancing with your sister and can be quite misleading.  Spencer looked fantastic yesterday but few think that will translate into a best 22 position.  Jack has looked good this preseason and we all hope it will translate into the season but I doubt it will.

It's just a view.

[ArtificialWisdom 3,852]

For those asking about the injured players we got an injury update:
http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2017-01-23/injury-update-david-misson

Disclaimer: The video was apparently uploaded yesterday but sounds like it was recorded sometime last week no date is mentioned just days of the week. Would have been nice to have a "recorded X/1/17" 

Of note:
TMac & Pedo: Ending rehab, almost clear for full contact, will be in full contact for the QLD camp  
Tyson: Running outside and doing strength work, will up his running in the 'next couple of weeks'
Kent: "Flare in his back stuff" settling down, running outside doing strength stuff, about a month away but should play some of the JLT series
ANB: Mentioned.... then no comment made ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hullet: Sould be back in the group soon after his little hiccup the other week
King: Going well, we know he had first session last week some time. Should get more and more time
Hannan: Shoulder rehab about 2 weeks behind Tmac and Pedo  
Filipovic: Achilles looking at getting more work before going into the main group

[faultydet 7,593]

7 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

My concern isn't with his ability to spread but whether he will be able to keep up with his man defensively.  We have repeatedly found ourselves struggling against sides who can outrun us and stream into the 50.  If his man has a significant pace advantage then all they will do is jog him to the centre square, turn and sprint to the 50 and be the open man who gets a free possession and shot at goal.  He needs to be able to cover this or he'll do more harm than good in the side. 

That's a much better summation than mine.

It's what I was thinking, but not what I typed.

Well done.

[faultydet 7,593]

21 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

For those asking about the injured players we got an injury update:
http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2017-01-23/injury-update-david-misson

Disclaimer: The video was apparently uploaded yesterday but sounds like it was recorded sometime last week no date is mentioned just days of the week. Would have been nice to have a "recorded X/1/17" 

Of note:
TMac & Pedo: Ending rehab, almost clear for full contact, will be in full contact for the QLD camp  
Tyson: Running outside and doing strength work, will up his running in the 'next couple of weeks'
Kent: "Flare in his back stuff" settling down, running outside doing strength stuff, about a month away but should play some of the JLT series
ANB: Mentioned.... then no comment made ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hullet: Sould be back in the group soon after his little hiccup the other week
King: Going well, we know he had first session last week some time. Should get more and more time
Hannan: Shoulder rehab about 2 weeks behind Tmac and Pedo  
Filipovic: Achilles looking at getting more work before going into the main group

Looking at that group, and there are not many that would be sorely missed come rd1, except TMac/Tyson, and maybe Kent.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Didn't know Terrance and Phillip were Demons fans......

[Wiseblood 24,636]

49 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Dazzle I've been a track watcher for many years now and I've learned it's very difficult to judge how a lot of things on the track translate to game situations. For example slick ball movement at training turns into preseason rust in games.  I put Trengove's pace in this category.  I think if you went and looked at last years training threads you'd see similar comments from many regarding the "return" of Trengove's pace.  My position is that I can see no difference to other years and until I do I'll remain sceptical.  In the 10 v 10 drills we are doing at present it's very easy to find space and have time to dispose although yesterdays session was more contested. Nobody is caught out for pace in these drills to date.

My view is pretty simple and again differs from Saty.  Trengove is all class.  If he has the pace he had when he first came he'd be one of the first picked each week, he wouldn't be in the pack chasing the last few spots in the best 22.  If he doesn't have that pace he'll struggle to sustain an AFL career IMO.  Those that compare him to greats such as Bartel, Lewis and Mitchell (to name a few) are underrating those players pace IMO.  In the last few seasons Trengove hasn't been just slow, he's been painfully slow, slower than Brock McLean who couldn't chase down any of the three players I've mentioned.

I freely admit we won't know until firstly the practice matches start and more probably the season proper.  But training is like dancing with your sister and can be quite misleading.  Spencer looked fantastic yesterday but few think that will translate into a best 22 position.  Jack has looked good this preseason and we all hope it will translate into the season but I doubt it will.

It's just a view.

Very well said, VP.  The things we can take away from training that are worthwhile are ideas around the game plan and where they are trialing certain players in new positions, such as someone making the step up from a flank to a midfield role.  How they are going at training is of no real interest - as long as they are all putting in 100%, which they would be.

Take Jake Spencer for example - it sounds like he is training the house down and looking good in the match sims.  I can't get excited about that.  I still see the same big, lumbering bloke who is an average kick and offers little around the ground.  With any player I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not a fan of making statements of break out years and so forth based on their efforts at training.  It means very little.

Matt Jones was supposedly best 22 during training last year and ended up being delisted.  That's just another example of reading too much into training.  He looked great in January, yet ended up being the same player in June.

It's great to hear about the game plan, how we are looking to move the ball quickly and where certain players are spending their time during these drills.  The rest is not as important.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

The things we can take away from training that are worthwhile are ideas around the game plan and where they are trialing certain players in new positions, 

The rest is not as important.

I also look for who is in rehab as we know that despite the "golden ticket" knock preseasons are critical to the year.  It's really encouraging that most have had good preseason, particularly the young blokes like Stretch, Petracca, Brayshaw, Hunt, Weideman, Harmes, AVB, Oliver and Hogan.  I think it's critical that the good young players get preseasons.  Older players can get away with missing a bit but  for younger players it's so important.

This, to me, is why Saty's information is so good.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

37 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Very well said, VP.  The things we can take away from training that are worthwhile are ideas around the game plan and where they are trialing certain players in new positions, such as someone making the step up from a flank to a midfield role.  How they are going at training is of no real interest - as long as they are all putting in 100%, which they would be.

Take Jake Spencer for example - it sounds like he is training the house down and looking good in the match sims.  I can't get excited about that.  I still see the same big, lumbering bloke who is an average kick and offers little around the ground.  With any player I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not a fan of making statements of break out years and so forth based on their efforts at training.  It means very little.

Matt Jones was supposedly best 22 during training last year and ended up being delisted.  That's just another example of reading too much into training.  He looked great in January, yet ended up being the same player in June.

It's great to hear about the game plan, how we are looking to move the ball quickly and where certain players are spending their time during these drills.  The rest is not as important.

Matt Jones was looking really good during pre season last year, but during the season he was overtaken by other players, happens all the time.

Spencer has obviously taken on board the example set by Gawn, it does help him doing his first full pre season for about 5 or 6 years, if nothing else his improvement drives Gawn to keep ahead of him which again benefits the team

You do have the opportunity to not read posts, not dictate what others should or shouldn't find important

Of course I do bow to your superior knowledge of pre season and in season training sessions, taken from the sheer number of them you have attended

 

[beelzebub 22,225]

Saty,I like many , appreciate yours and others reporting. It goes to the landscape of the canvas. I can also understand the comments by VP and WB in so far as this is more possibly about the fabric of the canvas.

Things I want to hear are the like of 'improvements' , fewer in rehab= more preseasons completed. I like greater intensities, harder contesting. The minutae wont matter to me but is obviously vital to the play.

We all take whats suits. No one right way.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Saty,I like many , appreciate yours and others reporting. It goes to the landscape of the canvas. I can also understand the comments by VP and WB in so far as this is more possibly about the fabric of the canvas.

Things I want to hear are the like of 'improvements' , fewer in rehab= more preseasons completed. I like greater intensities, harder contesting. The minutae wont matter to me but is obviously vital to the play.

We all take whats suits. No one right way.

That's ok chap, just find a bit boring when some criticise,  they can just not read it,

I have found topics and threads 100% better now I have compiled an ignore list or don't read after first line or 2 

As I have said previously I try to provide colour in my reports as DS and WW do a superb job of providing drill detail

If I find a new drilll might report that, coz I make a point of asking the coaches what it is for

I think the talk about Spencer is because he was improving steadily but yesterday was like watching a new player, games being a different matter of course

But it goes some way to showing that the proper development of players we have all longed for is coming to fruition

We had a  ruckmam in his late 20's, who we have all shaken our heads at, at some point, charging up and down the middle of the ground, providing a target and dishing of accurate handballs and kicks. and still doing it 2 hrs into the session, in 30+deg heat

[Melb16 458]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

My view is pretty simple and again differs from Saty.  Trengove is all class.  If he has the pace he had when he first came he'd be one of the first picked each week, he wouldn't be in the pack chasing the last few spots in the best 22.  If he doesn't have that pace he'll struggle to sustain an AFL career IMO.  Those that compare him to greats such as Bartel, Lewis and Mitchell (to name a few) are underrating those players pace IMO.  In the last few seasons Trengove hasn't been just slow, he's been painfully slow, slower than Brock McLean who couldn't chase down any of the three players I've mentioned.

 

This is the perfect summation of Trengove and his situation. Brock McLean is a great example as well.

Hopefully the reports that he's getting his power and explosiveness back are spot on!

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

 

16 minutes ago, Melb16 said:

This is the perfect summation of Trengove and his situation. Brock McLean is a great example as well.

Hopefully the reports that he's getting his power and explosiveness back are spot on!

Trengove has been injured for approximately the last couple and a half years, so the slowness isn't surprising

[Caligula's Cohort! 105]

I've been to a few training sessions this year and I've been really pleased with the continual development of Vince, Jones and AVB. They've really grown into their roles and offer great voice and leadership. The group as a whole are more vocal and self assured then I've seen in recent years. They just keep ticking off all the boxes and have a real look of determination in them. I think we will see a much improved Vince, Jones and AVB this year.

[McQueen 17,863]

Posters who can't see particular players finally getting it together and becoming a good reliable player must also wonder why the club bothers with continual development programs.

Spencer is clearly moving forward by all reports.

That means he's not as useless as he was last year.

Kudos to the coaches. It's a real achievement that hopefully transitions into game day performances.

[Bay Riffin 1,415]

19 minutes ago, Caligula's Cohort! said:

I've been to a few training sessions this year and I've been really pleased with the continual development of Vince, Jones and AVB. They've really grown into their roles and offer great voice and leadership. The group as a whole are more vocal and self assured then I've seen in recent years. They just keep ticking off all the boxes and have a real look of determination in them. I think we will see a much improved Vince, Jones and AVB this year.

Wouldn't that be terrific. I think Vince needs to improve on last year, the second half especially. maybe give him more run with roles to maintain the focus.

AVB is the interesting one. Commetti described him beautifully when he said he isn't great at any one aspect but does everything well. If he keeps improving he will definitely be good enough for the starting 22.

[beelzebub 22,225]

We need Spencil up firing and motivated. Might not get a game...but might give Max a spell ..or not. Thing is he needs to be switched on. Kudos the club

[waynewussell 4,091]

"Matt Jones was supposedly best 22 during training last year and ended up being delisted.  That's just another example of reading too much into training.  He looked great in January, yet ended up being the same player in June."

Wiseblood - Matt Jones played the better part of half a season before injury wrecked his season. My point being that blokes who burn it up pre-season are certainly in contention for the opening rounds. In the early days, post injury, Max also looked to be lumbering around. I was convinced in those early games that he couldn't jump! I think it is possible for a player who has had several interrupted pre-seasons to take  a huge step forward when he has a clear go at it. I'm not saying that Spencer is a walk up start, but we don't have to look any further back than Max at the first Maroochydore Camp to be excited by Spencer's current track form.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

Posters who can't see particular players finally getting it together and becoming a good reliable player must also wonder why the club bothers with continual development programs.

Spencer is clearly moving forward by all reports.

That means he's not as useless as he was last year.

Kudos to the coaches. It's a real achievement that hopefully transitions into game day performances.

Is he?  I'd like to see you prove it.

My point is that he is obviously doing good things at training, but, that is no indication of how that improvement translates to game day.  We've seen what Spencer has to offer - he's a back up to Gawn who is decent in the ruck, okay up forward in short bursts but doesn't offer much around the ground.  Players can only develop so far and have a ceiling that they'll never get past.  Spencer is on the list as he is a cheap back up while we have little else.  We're in big trouble if Gawn goes down.

I'll once again re-iterate that I'm all for players proving me wrong.  I don't wish them ill, nor do I wish that they don't make it.  I just comment and have an opinion on what I see.

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

37 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

"Matt Jones was supposedly best 22 during training last year and ended up being delisted.  That's just another example of reading too much into training.  He looked great in January, yet ended up being the same player in June."

Wiseblood - Matt Jones played the better part of half a season before injury wrecked his season. My point being that blokes who burn it up pre-season are certainly in contention for the opening rounds. In the early days, post injury, Max also looked to be lumbering around. I was convinced in those early games that he couldn't jump! I think it is possible for a player who has had several interrupted pre-seasons to take  a huge step forward when he has a clear go at it. I'm not saying that Spencer is a walk up start, but we don't have to look any further back than Max at the first Maroochydore Camp to be excited by Spencer's current track form.

Yes, he did.  In the beginning of the year he played quite well, which I happily agreed to at the time.  But he still made the same mistakes he always did - I can recall him making some absolute shockers throughout his time in the side.  Injury didn't help, but the club obviously felt he couldn't add more to the side, nor could they develop him further.  So he got delisted.

My point is that people got all excited about him because people talked him up at training and made big statements about his future.  That just shouldn't be done at this time of the year - 99% of the players on each list in the AFL will be 'training the house down'.  But there are some players that have been around long enough for us to make a fair assumption on, and M. Jones was one of those.

[Fork 'em 6,507]

10 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

 We're in big trouble if Gawn goes down.

 

 

Worse trouble if Spencers not there.
Can't believe those who suggest we trade him.
Not every-one can be Max Gawn, Goldstein or Nik Nat.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Fork 'em

[Its Time for Another 4,053]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

We need Spencil up firing and motivated. Might not get a game...but might give Max a spell ..or not. Thing is he needs to be switched on. Kudos the club

We have a period of 4 6 day breaks in a row in the middle of the season.  From memory it includes a couple of interstate games. One of them to Perth. The FD will have to be right up on its game to steer the team through this period. I can see Spencil being front and centre in that planning. Probably throughout that period to spread the load more evenly for Maxy.