What players do you see over the next few years requesting a trade due to not being able to crack the 22?

[Nasher 33,617]

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

Tyson? Frost?

Agree with where you're going with the point, but IMO it's more a sign of an improving team that your cutoffs are good quality (Hence the GWS/MFC examples above).

 

Tyson was a best 22 player at GWS with injury problems, not opportunity problems. Don't know a lot about Frost.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Tyson was a best 22 player at GWS with injury problems, not opportunity problems. Don't know a lot about Frost.

Would he be in their best 22 now?

Just saying, sometimes it just means one team is better than another.

 

[Nasher 33,617]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Would he be in their best 22 now?

Just saying, sometimes it just means one team is better than another.

 

Yes, without a doubt in my mind.

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Yes, without a doubt in my mind.

Respectfully disagree, but that's footy!

Either way, if our cutoffs are improving then we are improving.

 

[BLWNBA 1,482]

On 1/10/2017 at 2:27 PM, stuie said:

Garland. ANB. JKH.

PS - Hi Bobby! Nice to see you spreading your random questions to 'Land now.

 

 

Want to like this more than once. 

[beelzebub 23,390]

4 hours ago, stuie said:

WTF?

 

Its a NQR thread thrown up as though it holds water. The premise is flawed but as the OP hoped some bit.

Who ever doesn't make it will be dropped...let go. They become irrelevant.

Whoever wants to add to the club will try harder. If they fail, again...let go.

The whole thread is arze about.

But hey have fun lol

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, beelzebub said:

Its a NQR thread thrown up as though it holds water. The premise is flawed but as the OP hoped some bit.

Who ever doesn't make it will be dropped...let go. They become irrelevant.

Whoever wants to add to the club will try harder. If they fail, again...let go.

The whole thread is arze about.

But hey have fun lol

O..... k.... then....

[BLWNBA 1,482]

8 hours ago, Biffen said:

ANB will stick it right up a few this year .

By that I mean prove the doubters wrong.

 

2

 

I honestly implore your enthusiasm, but I fail to see where this supposed 'stick it up' us would come from. 

Who would make way for him and, conversely, where do you see him slotting in?

Sure, he's killed it back in the magoos, but when he's been given his chance in the big league he's really failed to impress. If anything, I would have said last year was his year to stick it up us, it'll be so, so much harder from this year out; given the expected on-field improvement and natural progression of players, some of whom are well ahead of him. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by BLWNBA
Spelling

[Ted Lasso 19,564]

7 hours ago, stuie said:

Respectfully disagree, but that's footy!

Either way, if our cutoffs are improving then we are improving.

 

IMO first half of 2016 dom wouldn't be in the giants best 22 but second half he was at his best and imo he'd be in their best 22 fairly comfortably. 

I still think in 5 years time dom is a good chance to be the best mid out of our young crop, if he plays at his best for a whole season in 17 he will win the bluey imo 

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, Abe said:

IMO first half of 2016 dom wouldn't be in the giants best 22 but second half he was at his best and imo he'd be in their best 22 fairly comfortably. 

I still think in 5 years time dom is a good chance to be the best mid out of our young crop, if he plays at his best for a whole season in 17 he will win the bluey imo 

I'm not putting Dom down by any stretch, but I just disagree he'd be a lock for what will be the best team in the comp this year, compared to being a lock for a team hoping to finish 8th at best.

He'd be around their best 25-28 surely, but I'd find it hard to have him locked in ahead of what their midfield will be this year.

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by stuie

[Dr evil 1,185]

8 hours ago, stuie said:

Would he be in their best 22 now?

Just saying, sometimes it just means one team is better than another.

 

Yes I think he would but 

the giants are scary and aren't really a fair comparison, a lot of very good players that would get a game at other clubs but would struggle to crack the giants side 

[DeeSpencer 26,461]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

I'm not putting Dom down by any stretch, but I just disagree he'd be a lock for what will be the best team in the comp this year, compared to being a lock for a team hoping to finish 8th at best.

He'd be around their best 25-28 surely, but I'd find it hard to have him locked in ahead of what their midfield will be this year.

 

He'd have played ahead of Rhys Palmer, Jacob Hopper and probably even Ryan Griffen in the Prelim last year against the Dogs.

The Giants get Deledio, Stevie J (suspension) and a preseason in to some quality kids including Hopper, Kennedy and 3 first rounders so the competition would be tight. But I'd back Dom to hold the 4th inside midfield spot behind Ward, Coniglio and Shiel and ahead of a pretty broken down Griffen and the kids.

i generally try to stay pretty measured about players in my training reports because unless they are young guys getting their bodies and confidence to the level required (Hunt last year, hopefully Brayshaw currently) or have had a drastic shift in injury or approach the improvement over a preseason is usually small. This injury sucks for Dom because what I was seeing at training was a guy who had significantly improved.

[rjay 25,325]

10 hours ago, Nasher said:

I wonder how many players who leave because they can't break in to their existing side go on to be true AFL grade players? Sure you get the odd Ted Richards or Josh Kennedy, but there are also a lot of Viv Michie, Ben Newton types who excel in the second tier but can't quite crack it.

I've often referred to those types as "almost good enough". This thread is basically asking who our almost good enoughs are. AFL lists are subject to enough injuries and form that any player actually good enough should get an opportunity.

You're reading my mind 'Nasher', couldn't agree more...

Let me add that it's also difficult to nearly impossible for the almost good enough's to become good enough unless they get consistent game time at the top level. It's a bit of a catch 22.

It's why we get games into good kids and a big part of why Oscar got games last year...he needed to learn his craft with & against the best. Players that spend too much time in the 2nd tier struggle to move up. Also why Weideman will play a lot of games this year and Oliver won't see Casey again unless coming back from injury...

There is a myth about Clarko leaving players at Box Hill to develop, all his good ones play a lot of top level games early in their careers...

Players like ANB & JKH need to get good game time to improve otherwise they go on to be the Michies & Newtons at another club if they are lucky enough to get a 2nd chance.

Kennedy is this years Michie/Newton, needs to crack a game or in danger of being moved on...

 

 

[Skuit 10,031]

I'm happy but a bit surprised to see Harmes flying under the radar this silly-season.

[stuie 7,374]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

He'd have played ahead of Rhys Palmer, Jacob Hopper and probably even Ryan Griffen in the Prelim last year against the Dogs.

The Giants get Deledio, Stevie J (suspension) and a preseason in to some quality kids including Hopper, Kennedy and 3 first rounders so the competition would be tight. But I'd back Dom to hold the 4th inside midfield spot behind Ward, Coniglio and Shiel and ahead of a pretty broken down Griffen and the kids.

i generally try to stay pretty measured about players in my training reports because unless they are young guys getting their bodies and confidence to the level required (Hunt last year, hopefully Brayshaw currently) or have had a drastic shift in injury or approach the improvement over a preseason is usually small. This injury sucks for Dom because what I was seeing at training was a guy who had significantly improved.

Yeah he probably would have played in that game, but I was talking about their "best 22", not a one off game.

I rate Dom, he's on track to being very very good, it's not a slight on him at all, it's just a matter of how ridiculously good the GWS' best 22 will be this year.

Out of this middle 6, who comes out for him?

C: Josh Kelly, Callan Ward, Tom Scully

R: Shane Mumford, Dylan Shiel, Stephen Coniglio

Now, I know we're talking 22, not 18, but I can't see Tyson playing every week if not in the 18 as I can't imagine GWS would pick a slow inside mid off the bench regularly this year. I agree about Griffen too btw.

But this is just my opinion, not trying to state is as fact, just think GWS are THAT good and we're still working towards it.

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by stuie

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

37 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah he probably would have played in that game, but I was talking about their "best 22", not a one off game.

I rate Dom, he's on track to being very very good, it's not a slight on him at all, it's just a matter of how ridiculously good the GWS' best 22 will be this year.

Out of this middle 6, who comes out for him?

C: Josh Kelly, Callan Ward, Tom Scully

R: Shane Mumford, Dylan Shiel, Stephen Coniglio

 

I would say they could play Ward from behind the ball and put Tyson in the middle. Besides stuie you know well enough that theres about 5 more midfield spots in any side after the "starting 6". Not to mention given that of the 6 you listed 2 are running wingman (of which Dom is not) and 1 is a ruckman its a pretty harsh list

Add rotating HBF/HFF and usually 3 maybe even 4 spots on the interchange depending on their line up on a given week. Tyson would be playing every week. However he would be under much more pressure to perform each week though. He is a lock in either side to begin the season but 2 off weeks at the Dees is a frustrating patch, 2 off weeks at the Giants is back to the NEAFL.

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I would say they could play Ward from behind the ball and put Tyson in the middle. Besides stuie you know well enough that theres about 5 more midfield spots in any side after the "starting 6". Not to mention given that of the 6 you listed 2 are running wingman (of which Dom is not) and 1 is a ruckman its a pretty harsh list

Add rotating HBF/HFF and usually 3 maybe even 4 spots on the interchange depending on their line up on a given week. Tyson would be playing every week. However he would be under much more pressure to perform each week though. He is a lock in either side to begin the season but 2 off weeks at the Dees is a frustrating patch, 2 off weeks at the Giants is back to the NEAFL.

Yeah look, fair call, and I'm not going to keep pushing it and start talking about GWS team balance in lots of detail. I guess the overall point I'm making is that as we get better, the players that can't crack our 22 get better, and it's not a slight on them but a positive sign of improvement for us.

 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

On 1/11/2017 at 6:35 AM, McQueen said:

Kents speed is overrated. I don't think he's all that quick at all and has a limited leap and lacks defensive pressure - although there was some improvements in this towards the end of last season. From the vision I've seen of Johnstone, I would not be surprised at all if he becomes a better small forward than Kent. Along with Hannan, a couple of seasons in an AFL environment could yield some surprising results. Remember the thread is asking to 'suppose' a few years in advance, not what the status quo is which is what you have done.

Trenners has a good leap but lacks speed. We're not going to see him in the back line anytime soon. Midfield and resting forward - much what people think will be Kent's next phase in his development. He's shown glimpses but so has ANB like at the Geelong game in 2015.

There will be real competition for this forward line spots in the next couple of years.

Brendan McCartney doesn't agree with you on that one.

"Kenty has still got that scintillating speed and game breaking tendencies. He’s a year older now and maturing. We think we’ve got a really good player, who will drive some elements of our game style better than anyone. He’s on his way."

[McQueen 17,867]

8 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Brendan McCartney doesn't agree with you on that one.

"Kenty has still got that scintillating speed and game breaking tendencies. He’s a year older now and maturing. We think we’ve got a really good player, who will drive some elements of our game style better than anyone. He’s on his way."

What would he know.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

16 hours ago, rjay said:

You're reading my mind 'Nasher', couldn't agree more...

 

Cheney, Sam Jacobs, Josh Jenkins, Tom Lynch, Scott Thompson, Stef Martin, any number of GWS rejects at Carlton, Jack Cripps, Michael Barlow, Zac Dawson, J Ceglar, David Hale, Daniel Cross, Shaun Grigg, Houli, Ivan Maric, Miles, Tom Hickey, Tim Membrey, Shane Savage, Mav Weller, Josh Kennedy, Jeremy Laidler, Ben McGlynn, Ted Richards, Shane Biggs.

All of these players, taken from a quick scan of club's 2015 playing list, came from other clubs to play reasonable careers at their new club from situations where their chances of senior footy at their original club was limited.  I understand each has their own story but the reality is players have moved through lack of opportunity at one club to another.

I don't see that we will be immune from this.  Players who are good enough to get games on a regular basis at AFL level who are denied opportunities with us will want to move.  We only need four or five players to take the next step and we'll face this situation.  It's what you want because you can trade out current excess for either needs or future players.  GWS are obviously a classic example.

[picket fence 18,043]

I  might request a trade to Iceland fc supporters website ( Ice Cold Undies) unless I start getting some gratuities LOL!

[doug williams 49]

Last few years this pre-season stuff has been the best part of our year!

It always throws up interesting scenarios - so, players who have been considered in this thread :

Garland. He was in my first players picked 2 or 3 years back but he has peaked and and doesn't seem to know what to do with the footy,  is not a creative player

Trenners. He's just a bit too slow.

ANB. Knows how to kick a goal but doesn't really bring much to the table.

Kennedy. Same old same old. Lacks the finishing touch.

JKH. Let's see if he can stop getting caught all the time and be a player. He seems to be a split second away from being dynamite.

Jetta. Crucial to our run out of the backline and a real shut-down player. Tough, fearless and inspiring

Tyson. No way Pablo. This guy works hard. look at the replays and you will see just how important a contributor he is.

What I am looking forward to seeing is the pickups from Essendrug, Melksham and Hibberd.

 

[Ron Burgundy 8,588]

On 10 January 2017 at 2:04 PM, McQueen said:

I'll add a little spice.

ANB

Kent

Salem

A lot of spice in this one McQueen.

I reckon the footy department views Kent and Salem as best 22. I expect most others here do too.

 

[McQueen 17,867]

54 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

A lot of spice in this one McQueen.

I reckon the footy department views Kent and Salem as best 22. I expect most others here do too.

 

Yeah, it was a pretty juicy call, Ron. In two or three years time I might be completely wrong.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,406]

On 10/01/2017 at 11:50 AM, Bobby Clark said:

Haha. I'm new to this.. Had to see what all the fuss is about, I like it. Also I will always be asking odd questions ?

Actually Bobby, I don't think this is an odd question at all.There are quite a few who won't see much action in the AFL namely, Garland, Kennedy, Spencer and Trengove and maybe ANB. I would love to be wrong with Trenners but feel his lack of pace will cost him a regular place. Let's have your next 'odd' question.