Kick to handball ratio

[doc roet 1,279]

Just for interest sake i thought i would have a look at this.

I just did all the teams above us on the ladder.

                     total kicks      total handballs     kicks more than handballs.

syd                 4412             3888                          564

adel                4656             3651                         1005

geel                4445             3619                         826

haw                4449             3334                         1115

gws                 4657             3572                         1085

wc                   4203              3158                        1045

wb                   4482             4194                         288

nmfc                4260             3355                       905

st kilda             4242            3668                       574

MFC                4228             4064                      164

Make of it what you will.

 

[Gorgoroth 12,701]

It's terrible.  It's a dumb game plan that costs us time and time again. 

They handball in the dumbest situations, Vince was a prime example yesterday when he took a mark, handled to Jones who was two meters away with his back to our goals who then handballed back to Vince who then took his kick under pressure.  We are so dumb with the amount of 2 merger handballs.  We all stood within a meter of the contest, Carlton stood around us an extra meter away, tackled us and waited jntil we turned it overt then spread from the contest under no pressure. 

[Cards13 9,117]

It was mentioned somewhere in an article where we were ranked 18th for handball to kick ratio. We handball more than kick.

Seeing our disposal eff yesterday made me laugh, we handballed ourselves into trouble yesterday. 5 handballs and 1 turnover. Or 5 handballs 2 kicks with one of this kicks being a turnover.

If a team can pressure us enough like the Blues did yesterday and we can't find the gap to release a runner we will get beaten.

In saying that we should have been closer if not won but our kicking for goal was appalling. 

[olisik 4,060]

VandenBergs handball to Gawn in the goal square sums it up

[Emerald 1,744]

Every game I attend,I hear thousands of Melbourne supporters yell "kick it", "kick the bloody thing" and "just kick it" but the players just don't seem to hear.

 

[Cards13 9,117]

15 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Every game I attend,I hear thousands of Melbourne supporters yell "kick it", "kick the bloody thing" and "just kick it" but the players just don't seem to hear.

 

Ha then they do and it goes straight to a 3 on 1 and we turn it over... 

[nutbean 8,838]

3 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

It's terrible.  It's a dumb game plan that costs us time and time again. 

They handball in the dumbest situations, Vince was a prime example yesterday when he took a mark, handled to Jones who was two meters away with his back to our goals who then handballed back to Vince who then took his kick under pressure.  We are so dumb with the amount of 2 merger handballs.  We all stood within a meter of the contest, Carlton stood around us an extra meter away, tackled us and waited jntil we turned it overt then spread from the contest under no pressure. 

So when we had 206 kicks to 225 handballs against hawthorn - I wonder if it that was a dumb game plan ?

Handballing is not a bad game plan but bad handballing that either miss the target or are to a stationary player who doesn't have a moving teammate to move it to is a bad game plan. 

[leave it to deever 17,446]

It is so [censored] frustrating

[ArtificialWisdom 4,039]

42 minutes ago, nutbean said:

So when we had 206 kicks to 225 handballs against hawthorn - I wonder if it that was a dumb game plan ?

Handballing is not a bad game plan but bad handballing that either miss the target or are to a stationary player who doesn't have a moving teammate to move it to is a bad game plan. 

High handballing when executed properly is a fantastic game plan and is hard to stop. Overlap and run usually results in scores. Some weeks we execute it well others are.... well... others are like yesterday... 

Edited August 21, 2016 by ArtificialWisdom

[leave it to deever 17,446]

Handballing so much in the wet or when your four goals down in the last qrt isnt always constructive.

[Constant Mongrel 586]

handballing has a place in the game, but not in a wet game and not the way it was done yesterday.. we have some very clever players that can get us out of tight situations with the handball (oliver obviously being the best at it), but they need to pick when to use it better. in the wet and against a team that is smashing us in the contested possesions. no. not the place.

[Chris 2,892]

12 hours ago, doc roet said:

Just for interest sake i thought i would have a look at this.

I just did all the teams above us on the ladder.

                     total kicks      total handballs     kicks more than handballs.

syd                 4412             3888                          564

adel                4656             3651                         1005

geel                4445             3619                         826

haw                4449             3334                         1115

gws                 4657             3572                         1085

wc                   4203              3158                        1045

wb                   4482             4194                         288

nmfc                4260             3355                       905

st kilda             4242            3668                       574

MFC                4228             4064                      164

Make of it what you will.

 

Roos spoke about this in the post match presser. In essence he said our boys were hand balling too short on the weekend, as they have for a fair bit of the year. He said if you watch the top teams they take a couple of hand balls to get out to space and the kicker, this takes longer better hand balls (something Clarry does well) but we were taking 4 or 5 handballs to try and get to the same point. That obviously ups the risk involved and the margin for error. 

I took from what he said that this was much more and execution issue than a gameplan issue. 

[Gorgoroth 12,701]

3 hours ago, nutbean said:

So when we had 206 kicks to 225 handballs against hawthorn - I wonder if it that was a dumb game plan ?

Handballing is not a bad game plan but bad handballing that either miss the target or are to a stationary player who doesn't have a moving teammate to move it to is a bad game plan. 

It works once. Hasnt many other time and especially in the wet.

I am not against handballing.  But smart ones.  Not one meter handballs, they need to clear the contest to a player in space. Against the hawks we did both. But it was dry.

[nutbean 8,838]

39 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

It works once. Hasnt many other time and especially in the wet.

I am not against handballing.  But smart ones.  Not one meter handballs, they need to clear the contest to a player in space. Against the hawks we did both. But it was dry.

I am not convinced it was a wet/dry problem.

I think it was a work rate problem and as you said - " the one meter handballs". it was not only the 1 meter handballs - it was the one meter handballs to a person standing still with no obvious outlet.

I didn't think we fumbled all that much  - we just made really poor decisions, were blind to free players and disposed really poorly by foot.

And give Carlton their due - they completely outworked us.

[Undeeterred 3,043]

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Handballing so much in the wet or when your four goals down in the last qrt isnt always constructive.

But is the only option if you want to at least try to keep possession, when there's nothing to kick to other than a sea of navy blue.

[Gorgoroth 12,701]

4 hours ago, nutbean said:

So when we had 206 kicks to 225 handballs against hawthorn - I wonder if it that was a dumb game plan ?

Handballing is not a bad game plan but bad handballing that either miss the target or are to a stationary player who doesn't have a moving teammate to move it to is a bad game 

[Gorgoroth 12,701]

They smashed us all over the ground.  

Freely admit that. But by playing that way with the short handballing we let them dictate how much pressure we ate under. 

[Glenn Molloy 494]

7 hours ago, nutbean said:

So when we had 206 kicks to 225 handballs against hawthorn - I wonder if it that was a dumb game plan ?

Handballing is not a bad game plan but bad handballing that either miss the target or are to a stationary player who doesn't have a moving teammate to move it to is a bad game plan. 

The difference in the Hawthorn game was that we smashed them so convincingly in clearances and the contest that the sheer amount of ball we had just overwhelmed them in the end.  We had over 100 more disposals. We still made quite a few silly errors in that game (Hawks scored quite a bit from our turnovers) but it didn't matter because they couldn't get their hands on it enough.   In games where the opposition either beat us easily in the contests and clearances (rare, like yesterday) or break even, we struggle.

The Saints aren't a great team but are renowned for their pressure, and they know that if they bring it, they'll beat us because we'll handball ourselves into trouble.  No question that Bolton said the same thing to his charges yesterday.

Look at the stats from both  St.K games and the Carlton game.  Sometimes stats lie but having attended all three games, I wasn't surprised when I saw the stats because my overriding though at the end of all those games was that our decision making is awful when the opposition applies significant pressure.  What worries me is that in big games, the pressure goes up a notch, and until we prove otherwise, our high handball game plan won't stand up in the heat.  

STATS       Kick            HB         

Carl            221          153           ROUND 22

Melb          191           202     

 

St K           192            170           ROUND 19

Melb          184            216

 

St K         209           180               ROUND 7

Melb       167            186    

 

 

[poita 3,874]

Handballing is fine when it is a handball on to the chest of a player running past with options ahead of him. Handballing at a bloke's feet or over his head or when he is covered or just for the hell of it is the problem. Some players (Vandenberg for one) have not mastered this basic football skill and should not do it under any circumstances. Nathan Jones is a great field kick, whose first option is now seemingly always to handball to a teammate in a worse position instead of a kick to a contest.

Handballing in wet conditions with a slippery ball is just asking for trouble. Funny how Buckley scored several goals from outside 50 into an open forward line, whilst we were happy to have twelve useless handballs in the same position. Some times you just have to have a go and see what happens.

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

On 8/21/2016 at 9:24 PM, doc roet said:

Just for interest sake i thought i would have a look at this.

I just did all the teams above us on the ladder.

                     total kicks      total handballs     kicks more than handballs.

syd                 4412             3888                          564

adel                4656             3651                         1005

geel                4445             3619                         826

haw                4449             3334                         1115

gws                 4657             3572                         1085

wc                   4203              3158                        1045

wb                   4482             4194                         288

nmfc                4260             3355                       905

st kilda             4242            3668                       574

MFC                4228             4064                      164

Make of it what you will.

 

Interesting to look at this now, 2 of the 3 with the narrowest differential are in the GF.