THE BOMBERS' SWISS ADVENTURE

[sue 9,058]

25 minutes ago, Ash35 said:

I've switched off a bit lately from the whole thing, but I reckon I heard not too long ago on AFL 360 that the AFL, and more specifically Ken Wood, would be monitoring the legal payouts Essendon negotiate with the currently listed players along with any new contract they sign. They want to stop a scenario where Essendon says to 'Player A' sign on for much less than you are worth, and we'll make up for it with a more than generous legal payout, obviously giving Essendon more room in its salary cap to re-sign current players or sign on new players.

The AFL and Essendon are both aware of this scenario, and are making sure things are done properly going forward, unlike many of the events from the past. No one can argue against having this must have safe guard to ensure Essendon don't benefit in the long term from the above scenario.

The scepticism and blind hatred for all things Essendon and the AFL on here obviously means most of you miss things like this when it's reported.

You seem very certain that all is lily-white based on "but I reckon I heard not too long ago on AFL360....".  Where was it reported other than on AFL360? Surely such a major point of concern to all clubs would merit follow up by other media?  Looks like at least one non-EFC/AFL hater missed it too.

Anyway, those of us who have even limited hatred of EFC and only faintly suspect the AFL is driven by $ and little else will believe it when they see it. Oldest trick in the book is to say it is monitored and then look the other way.

[H_T 3,038]

Ash35 is from Windy Hill.

Hello Ash35.

 

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, Ash35 said:

I've switched off a bit lately from the whole thing, but I reckon I heard not too long ago on AFL 360 that the AFL, and more specifically Ken Wood, would be monitoring the legal payouts Essendon negotiate with the currently listed players along with any new contract they sign. They want to stop a scenario where Essendon says to 'Player A' sign on for much less than you are worth, and we'll make up for it with a more than generous legal payout, obviously giving Essendon more room in its salary cap to re-sign current players or sign on new players.

The AFL and Essendon are both aware of this scenario, and are making sure things are done properly going forward, unlike many of the events from the past. No one can argue against having this must have safe guard to ensure Essendon don't benefit in the long term from the above scenario.

The scepticism and blind hatred for all things Essendon and the AFL on here obviously means most of you miss things like this when it's reported.

We saw that Ash, just don't have any faith in the AFL at all to actually follow through with it. They have tried from day 1 to get the bombers off and have even said publicly that they want them up and about again in a most inappropriate fashion. 

[Chris 2,892]

29 minutes ago, sue said:

You seem very certain that all is lily-white based on "but I reckon I heard not too long ago on AFL360....".  Where was it reported other than on AFL360? Surely such a major point of concern to all clubs would merit follow up by other media?  Looks like at least one non-EFC/AFL hater missed it too.

Anyway, those of us who have even limited hatred of EFC and only faintly suspect the AFL is driven by $ and little else will believe it when they see it. Oldest trick in the book is to say it is monitored and then look the other way.

Heard it on 360, you know that show with the greatest EFC apologists known to man as the host!

[daisycutter 29,429]

1 hour ago, Ash35 said:

I've switched off a bit lately from the whole thing, but I reckon I heard not too long ago on AFL 360 that the AFL, and more specifically Ken Wood, would be monitoring the legal payouts Essendon negotiate with the currently listed players along with any new contract they sign. They want to stop a scenario where Essendon says to 'Player A' sign on for much less than you are worth, and we'll make up for it with a more than generous legal payout, obviously giving Essendon more room in its salary cap to re-sign current players or sign on new players.

The AFL and Essendon are both aware of this scenario, and are making sure things are done properly going forward, unlike many of the events from the past. No one can argue against having this must have safe guard to ensure Essendon don't benefit in the long term from the above scenario.

The scepticism and blind hatred for all things Essendon and the AFL on here obviously means most of you miss things like this when it's reported.

good to hear ash  (I don't have foxtel btw)

scepticism where essendon is concerned has been a sound strategy lately. as for blind hatred that's footy, lol

[sue 9,058]

10 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

good to hear ash  (I don't have foxtel btw)

scepticism where essendon is concerned has been a sound strategy lately. as for blind hatred that's footy, lol

There are several clubs I don't like (as DC said, that's footy), but I have blind hatred for only one.  What Essendrug have done is far far worse than any other scandal in the AFL. Draft tampering, tanking, over-cap payments, brown paper envelopes, dodgy 'ambassador' jobs for star players, etc (even things which I hope have never happened such as bribing an umpire or deliberately spreading flu about an oppo team) all pale into insignificance compared to EFC's 'pharmacological experiment'.  My wide-eyed hatred will endure until they get rid of everyone associated with it and stop painting them as innocent martyrs.

Edited May 13, 2016 by sue

[beelzebub 23,244]

1 hour ago, Ash35 said:

The AFL and Essendon are both aware of this scenario, and are making sure things are done properly going forward,

What a whimsical ideal at best. I do however think that Essendon and the AFL are very much working on things together 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

39 minutes ago, sue said:

There are several clubs I don't like (as DC said, that's footy), but I have blind hatred for only one.  What Essendrug have done is far far worse than any other scandal in the AFL. Draft tampering, tanking, over-cap payments, brown paper envelopes, dodgy 'ambassador' jobs for star players, etc (even things which I hope have never happened such as bribing an umpire or deliberately spreading flu about an oppo team) all pale into insignificance compared to EFC's 'pharmacological experiment'.  My wide-eyed hatred will endure until they get rid of everyone associated with it and stop painting them as innocent martyrs.

This is what gets my goat up as well. There's never been a moment when they took responsibility for injecting players with drugs. Or I guess there was and then they pretended it didn't happen.

[Melbman2 226]

2 hours ago, Ash35 said:

The scepticism and blind hatred for all things Essendon and the AFL on here obviously means most of you miss things like this when it's reported.

You say that as though "scepticism and blind hatred for all things Essendon and the AFL" isn't a great quality to have.

[beelzebub 23,244]

The essential problem for any decent EFC  supporter is to acknowledge that their club has effectively ZERO credibility. What would I base that on ?  Well...just  about everything to date.

To attempt to ride the coat-tails of the AFL for any respect  is like signing on with the KKK and expecting impartiality.

[monoccular 17,345]

On 11 May 2016 at 9:34 PM, daisycutter said:

will be interesting to see how the afl views these legal payouts with respect to the salary cap for those players who re-sign. would seem a very big loop-hole to get around the salary cap to free up big money for trading in players

doubt the afl integrity dept would be up to the challenge though. easier to look the other way

Is that not exactly how they operate?

[Willmoy1947 3,981]

I say now that Watson will not play next season for Essendon  if they cannot get the AFL to let him retain his Brownlow.....

[beelzebub 23,244]

41 minutes ago, willmoy said:

I say now that Watson will not play next season for Essendon  if they cannot get the AFL to let him retain his Brownlow.....

Funny in a fashion. I would actually respect the bloke if he had sufficient honour and ethic to hand the medal back of his own accord. That would take moral fibre and some guts.

That he won't only leads me to view him as another fallen champion and forever a cheat .

The honour and respect he so much cherishes and craves is not within and of that medal it as always comes from one's actions and often the hardest to do of them.

He doesn't get it....he shouldn't keep it.

Edited May 13, 2016 by beelzebub

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

6 hours ago, Ash35 said:

I've switched off a bit lately from the whole thing, but I reckon I heard not too long ago on AFL 360 that the AFL, and more specifically Ken Wood, would be monitoring the legal payouts Essendon negotiate with the currently listed players along with any new contract they sign. They want to stop a scenario where Essendon says to 'Player A' sign on for much less than you are worth, and we'll make up for it with a more than generous legal payout, obviously giving Essendon more room in its salary cap to re-sign current players or sign on new players.

The AFL and Essendon are both aware of this scenario, and are making sure things are done properly going forward, unlike many of the events from the past. No one can argue against having this must have safe guard to ensure Essendon don't benefit in the long term from the above scenario.

The scepticism and blind hatred for all things Essendon and the AFL on here obviously means most of you miss things like this when it's reported.

No, my blind hatred for Essendon is totally objective.

[Ash35 425]

8 hours ago, daisycutter said:

good to hear ash  (I don't have foxtel btw)

scepticism where essendon is concerned has been a sound strategy lately. as for blind hatred that's footy, lol

FWIW, I also heard Damien Barrett talk about it on Footy Classified on ch 9.

I appreciate the hatred for the Bombers. As you say, it's football.

It's funny, cos I really don't care what most people on here think about my club.

I didn't log on or look at Demonland for several months after some uneducated idiot on here compared the Essendon Football Club to the Nazi party last year.

I know there is hatred for Essendon on here, and most of the banter is fine, but that comparison was offensive and in my opinion, overstepped the mark by a long way.   

When I joined Demonland in about 2001 (don't bother running off to check my profile, it will say I joined in 2005, but the site was "relaunched" in 2005), that sort of posting was never a part of this great site.

I thought the Nathan Bock situation might of caused more a stir on here, as a lot of posters were very much 'all drug cheats should be burnt at the stake' during the Essendon saga, but I guess he didn't play for Essendon so the passion for that is not as great.

Now that I have got that rant off my chest, and going back to the original point, I also understand the scepticism. But the people currently in charge of the EFC are a very different bunch to those in charge back in 2012. I think it's naïve to just say "Essendon are drug taking scum cheats, they'll find a way to be dishonest and get out of this".

The club is moving forward, dealing with the circumstances it is in, and I believe all signs are that they are trying to do the right thing.

I really don't think the AFL will turn a blind eye to large legal payments made outside the salary cap to supplement (pardon the pun) lower than market value contracts signed by any of the banned 12. But obviously most of you guys do. And that really doesn't bother me overly.

I guess we will find out one day.

[beelzebub 23,244]

You know Ash.,.... youre club is [censored].  you come here as a friend and I accept that. 

what do you accept ?  Do you applaud the misdirections of windy hill ??? 

We hate rubbish, we hate corruption, we hate it when those purport to have "enititlementss"  

This screams of your club

Youre club is doing fukk all.. wheres the acknowledgement of ANYTHING ??     really

Essendon is full of crap

[Ash35 425]

8 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You know Ash.,.... youre club is [censored].  you come here as a friend and I accept that. 

what do you accept ?  Do you applaud the misdirections of windy hill ??? 

We hate rubbish, we hate corruption, we hate it when those purport to have "enititlementss"  

This screams of your club

Youre club is doing fukk all.. wheres the acknowledgement of ANYTHING ??     really

Essendon is full of crap

I must be in a rule breaking mode, cos to be honest Beelzebub, I scroll past your posts every time.

I don't bother reading them, nothing to learn or gain from reading what you write.

But I'll break my rule this time, tell me mate, what do you want the Essendon FC to do, right now.

We have lost draft picks, fined $3mil, kicked out of the finals, and we had 34 past and present players suspended for 12 months.

Yes, we fought the charges. Yes, some parties associated with the club have taken questionable legal action.

You want acknowledgement?? In what form?

Listen to Xavier Campbell. Listen Lindsay Tanner.

The current administration has acknowledged the mistakes of the past, but the club is moving forward. We can't change the past, the players are serving their suspension.

What more do you actually want to happen?

[beelzebub 23,244]

6 minutes ago, Ash35 said:

I must be in a rule breaking mode, cos to be honest Beelzebub, I scroll past your posts every time.

I don't bother reading them, nothing to learn or gain from reading what you write.

But I'll break my rule this time, tell me mate, what do you want the Essendon FC to do, right now.

We have lost draft picks, fined $3mil, kicked out of the finals, and we had 34 past and present players suspended for 12 months.

Yes, we fought the charges. Yes, some parties associated with the club have taken questionable legal action.

You want acknowledgement?? In what form?

Listen to Xavier Campbell. Listen Lindsay Tanner.

The current administration has acknowledged the mistakes of the past, but the club is moving forward. We can't change the past, the players are serving their suspension.

What more do you actually want to happen?

Admit. Is it that hard ?

[beelzebub 23,244]

I find it hilarious that any would use EFC as a baseline of argument.

You lot are rabble. Don't like it ? Ah well.

You don't like the notion of boring subjected to the Inquisition of unknowns.

But they WEREN'T  unknowns were they.

Here is a a club Club corrupt beyond known  metrics and still they exist.

The AFL and the EFC are the same. Morally bankrupt. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by beelzebub

[biggestred 4,847]

Yeah any time essendon actually want to tell the world exactly what happened would be good.

Especially the night before they self declared.

Was the shredder in overdrive?

Another empty apology for bad governance doesn't cut it.

And they shouldn't be doing things like asking hal hunter for costs for them to tell him what he was given only to recind it because of 4 corners.

That for me speaks volumes of their attitude still... playing the PR game.

[biggestred 4,847]

Not to mention the whole anti wada code sentiment thats flying around from people like bomber etc.

A case like this is THE EXACT reason the code is written like it is, with 100% responsibility on the athlete.

[Whispering_Jack 29,334]

Really, I think Ash35 is correct. The Bombers have copped ample punishment and pain for their digressions - probably far more than had they come fully clean in the first place. I think the real reason they aren't fully coming out with the full mea culpa is the fact that their players' case is still being played out in the Swiss legal system and in any event, to do so might have the effect of further repercussions from the point of view of the legal proceedings that are likely to take place in the near future.

In effect, the Bombers have had about four of their seasons destroyed as a result of the saga and they face further pain for a few years to come because of the disruption caused to the club by the player suspensions, the loss of draft picks and the financial repercussions.

They deserved it from my point of view because someone at the club removed all evidence of the injection programme and the club then tried to plead innocence. They placed the health of their players at risk and, despite that, many of their players have remained loyal. 

Some of the Essendon supporters remain completely delusional and insist their club and their players did nothing wrong. I think however, that the majority of them have come to understand what took place and just want to move on.

I don't think it's rational to want to see further pain for Bomber fans or more blood spilt although the Dank situation needs to be dealt with as does the Brownlow which I believe has to be taken away from Job Watson just as Sergey Kirdyapkin will lose his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal for the 50km walk to Jared Talent this week.

[daisycutter 29,429]

9 hours ago, Ash35 said:

FWIW, I also heard Damien Barrett talk about it on Footy Classified on ch 9.

I appreciate the hatred for the Bombers. As you say, it's football.

It's funny, cos I really don't care what most people on here think about my club.

I didn't log on or look at Demonland for several months after some uneducated idiot on here compared the Essendon Football Club to the Nazi party last year.

I know there is hatred for Essendon on here, and most of the banter is fine, but that comparison was offensive and in my opinion, overstepped the mark by a long way.   

When I joined Demonland in about 2001 (don't bother running off to check my profile, it will say I joined in 2005, but the site was "relaunched" in 2005), that sort of posting was never a part of this great site.

I thought the Nathan Bock situation might of caused more a stir on here, as a lot of posters were very much 'all drug cheats should be burnt at the stake' during the Essendon saga, but I guess he didn't play for Essendon so the passion for that is not as great.

Now that I have got that rant off my chest, and going back to the original point, I also understand the scepticism. But the people currently in charge of the EFC are a very different bunch to those in charge back in 2012. I think it's naïve to just say "Essendon are drug taking scum cheats, they'll find a way to be dishonest and get out of this".

The club is moving forward, dealing with the circumstances it is in, and I believe all signs are that they are trying to do the right thing.

I really don't think the AFL will turn a blind eye to large legal payments made outside the salary cap to supplement (pardon the pun) lower than market value contracts signed by any of the banned 12. But obviously most of you guys do. And that really doesn't bother me overly.

I guess we will find out one day.

like i said ash......nice to hear. but our scepticism tells us to think "we will see"

you might also have noticed that we are very sceptical (for good reasons) of the afl who have a track record of "managing" situations to "protect" the game (i.e. $s speak loudest) so this is another reason to wait and see. we'll believe what you are saying if and when it can actually be seen to have happened.

as for bock there has been a bit said on here, but we haven't seen bock lawyering up, obfuscating and mounting a massive media propaganda campaign in the essendon sense. 

[beelzebub 23,244]

You're entitled to your opinion WJ. It's certainly not mine.

Whether you're a thief, a drunk or any other transgressor the first and most important step to retribution is to own up to what you've done andapologise to all and sundry.

What has Essendon done. Almost the complete opposite. They still protest they've been hard done by as though they are the victims. Really !! 

At any opportunity they've sought to stall legitimate processes. And still they do. 

They shouldn't even be playing this year.

That's what OUGHT to be happening.

It's perfectly RATIONAL to expect justice.

WJ you of all should expect that. Without rules and penalties you have anarchy.

What we have here is the AFL playing godfather. It's protecting its worst offender.

[Elwood 3184 1,298]

33 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You're entitled to your opinion WJ. It's certainly not mine.

Whether you're a thief, a drunk or any other transgressor the first and most important step to retribution is to own up to what you've done andapologise to all and sundry.

What has Essendon done. Almost the complete opposite. They still protest they've been hard done by as though they are the victims. Really !! 

At any opportunity they've sought to stall legitimate processes. And still they do. 

They shouldn't even be playing this year.

That's what OUGHT to be happening.

It's perfectly RATIONAL to expect justice.

WJ you of all should expect that. Without rules and penalties you have anarchy.

What we have here is the AFL playing godfather. It's protecting its worst offender.

What further punishment do you recommend?