Roos handball to Goodwin

[Willmoy1947 3,814]

Just now, willmoy said:

Back in the 50's I loved reading about the success of SW a down team that used to be in the before Premier league

I would have to order the mags from overseas for philately

[Deeoldfart 7,822]

1 hour ago, Goodvibes said:

You're right. There's no need to highlight specific posters and I'm not usually in the habit of having a crack at fellow posters but I'm in a pretty positive place about my football team and whilst I agree that questioning aspects of our operation is healthy, I can't understand how so many can spend the majority of their posts finding negatives at a time when they're is so much to be positive about. My other team (Sheffield Wednesday) are also in a really positive place and it's amazing how many Wednesday supporters on their Demonland equivalent are so incessantly negative. I'm not sure if that can simply be put down to human nature or whether it goes with the territory for any team (and their supporters) that have gone through a sustained period of disappointment.

The key point Goodvibes, is that many of us are in a similar positive place right now, about our beloved Demons ...... and I get the the strong feeling that our excitement is built on substance, rather than the false hope that has buoyed many of us at this time of year for far to long.

[Redleg 38,096]

2 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

The key point Goodvibes, is that many of us are in a similar positive place right now, about our beloved Demons ...... and I get the the strong feeling that our excitement is built on substance, rather than the false hope that has buoyed many of us at this time of year for far to long.

First time in about 8 years I have felt confident about our future.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

8 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

The key point Goodvibes, is that many of us are in a similar positive place right now, about our beloved Demons ...... and I get the the strong feeling that our excitement is built on substance, rather than the false hope that has buoyed many of us at this time of year for far to long.

Definitely. It feels different this time doesn't it?

[McQueen 17,864]

3 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

I really fear for people like yourself and munga and old dee. When we starting winning more than we lose, what will you do? The negativity from you guys is unrelenting. Maybe our ascent will coincide with North Melbourne's decline and you can follow them in an attempt to get your fill of doom and gloom. It's almost as if you're not happy unless you're unhappy. Roos was hired to do more than simply coach a team. He along with Jackson, Bartlett, Taylor and Mahoney have significantly altered the culture of the MFC. We are a professionally run club with a healthy focus placed on training habits, leadership, competitiveness and a team-first culture. Roos has made these areas his focus. If you can't see where we're going from here, I feel sorry for you. Our CEO is one of the best in the business. Financially we're far more sound with increased footy dept spending. Our coach is a proven architect and shaper of footy club culture. The positivity coming from the player group about Goodwin is incredible. Taylor keeps picking aggressive, skilled, athletic footballers at both ends of the draft. We have elite talent that is on brink of being realized. Now is the time, to buckle up and enjoy the ride. The love for Roos isn't unconditional, but the criticisms are focused on his pay packet, match day performance and contributions to our training sessions. I don't care how much he gets paid if the aforementioned culture is on the improve and we continue to post profits. I could easily find fault with his game day decision making but in the long term I'm more interested in the development of culture and the unearthing of quality footballers. And finally, the direction of most sports with increasing staff sizes is for the head honcho to oversee more and more and provide less hands on attention. Roos is clearly in big picture mode and Goodwin is running the gameplan side of things. And gameplans are honed during training. It makes sense that he is running the show on the training paddock. It seems to me at least that the transition with McCartney overseeing everything is working beautifully. As supporters we're not used to transitions. As Melbourne supporters we're not accustomed to being a part of cutting edge footy dept thinking. This is what it looks like.

This is a terrific, concise post that we should all read.

Nice one, Goodvibes.

[Middymalt 244]

34 minutes ago, McQueen said:

This is a terrific, concise post that we should all read.

Nice one, Goodvibes.

Yeah and those old timers have probably seen flags at least they have those memory's.

[dworship 3,342]

On 1/22/2016 at 2:00 PM, stuie said:

Think it's more about average age and experience and the quality of the peak age players. Bit shallow to just say "all clubs are running kids".

 

Does anyone know where we sit regarding the average age of our list given our ins and outs during the off season?

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

5 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

I really fear for people like yourself and munga and old dee. When we starting winning more than we lose, what will you do? The negativity from you guys is unrelenting. Maybe our ascent will coincide with North Melbourne's decline and you can follow them in an attempt to get your fill of doom and gloom. It's almost as if you're not happy unless you're unhappy. Roos was hired to do more than simply coach a team. He along with Jackson, Bartlett, Taylor and Mahoney have significantly altered the culture of the MFC. We are a professionally run club with a healthy focus placed on training habits, leadership, competitiveness and a team-first culture. Roos has made these areas his focus. If you can't see where we're going from here, I feel sorry for you. Our CEO is one of the best in the business. Financially we're far more sound with increased footy dept spending. Our coach is a proven architect and shaper of footy club culture. The positivity coming from the player group about Goodwin is incredible. Taylor keeps picking aggressive, skilled, athletic footballers at both ends of the draft. We have elite talent that is on brink of being realized. Now is the time, to buckle up and enjoy the ride. The love for Roos isn't unconditional, but the criticisms are focused on his pay packet, match day performance and contributions to our training sessions. I don't care how much he gets paid if the aforementioned culture is on the improve and we continue to post profits. I could easily find fault with his game day decision making but in the long term I'm more interested in the development of culture and the unearthing of quality footballers. And finally, the direction of most sports with increasing staff sizes is for the head honcho to oversee more and more and provide less hands on attention. Roos is clearly in big picture mode and Goodwin is running the gameplan side of things. And gameplans are honed during training. It makes sense that he is running the show on the training paddock. It seems to me at least that the transition with McCartney overseeing everything is working beautifully. As supporters we're not used to transitions. As Melbourne supporters we're not accustomed to being a part of cutting edge footy dept thinking. This is what it looks like.

Roos has been fantastic for the club. have never disputed that. just not sold on last years(2015) trade and draft. the pickings were slim. good players aren't convinced yet. 

Ive never owned rose colored glasses. always call things as i see it. vince, brayshaw, hogan, vine, vanders, salem, i considered all positive pickups as i observed at the time. oliver, bugg, kennedy, melksham, not convinced at this stage. I've never loved a player just because he becomes a demon, like some do on here. 

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

some people think that if a player walks off the ground in rd 23 as an average list clogger then all we have to do is talk about him all pre season and then in rd 1 he will be a gun. then they scratch their heads wondering why he "didn't come on".

Bugg and kennedy were let go for a reason. Melksham at essendon was erratic at best.  

Viney and salem are very good players. 

it may come off as negative but i just like to be honest when analyzing players

 

[McQueen 17,864]

1 hour ago, Middymalt said:

Yeah and those old timers have probably seen flags at least they have those memory's.

It has nothing to do with memories.

I considered fairly reflective of what's been happening and that is considering I thought Roos was a bit of a merchant banker that loved the sound of his own voice.

The alignment of all the things that make a great organisation perform is finally in place as far as in concerned.

[Willmoy1947 3,814]

When we're in this together opinions make good mates.

[Akum 2,660]

8 hours ago, willmoy said:

Anybody who has Sheffield Wednesday as a second team would have to read Lion and Tiger Comics

Roy of the Rovers??

[Ted Lasso 17,144]

12 hours ago, Munga said:

Roos has been fantastic for the club. have never disputed that. just not sold on last years(2015) trade and draft. the pickings were slim. good players aren't convinced yet. 

Ive never owned rose colored glasses. always call things as i see it. vince, brayshaw, hogan, vine, vanders, salem, i considered all positive pickups as i observed at the time. oliver, bugg, kennedy, melksham, not convinced at this stage. I've never loved a player just because he becomes a demon, like some do on here. 

I'd argue the vast majority of trade and draft periods have a fair bit of uncertainty, especially when the majority of players you bring in are draftee's, however gaining two top ten picks and a key forward of the quality of Wiederman i think is a positive

Melksham i have never rated to be honest, happy to be proven wrong when he eventually plays.

Bugg i think is a good solid role player we gave up very little to get, pretty happy with that

Kennedy i rate, pretty happy to swap him and the Toump

[Bossdog 2,002]

14 hours ago, Middymalt said:

Yeah and those old timers have probably seen flags at least they have those memory's.

Trouble is Middy.....It was so long ago that you can't be sure if it happened or you just imagined it.

[dazzledavey36 49,394]

28 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

I'd argue the vast majority of trade and draft periods have a fair bit of uncertainty, especially when the majority of players you bring in are draftee's, however gaining two top ten picks and a key forward of the quality of Wiederman i think is a positive

Melksham i have never rated to be honest, happy to be proven wrong when he eventually plays.

Bugg i think is a good solid role player we gave up very little to get, pretty happy with that

Kennedy i rate, pretty happy to swap him and the Toump

Agreed 

I too didn't rate Melksham and was disappointed what we gave up for him. With whats just happened to him i am even more frustrated now.

Bugg is your true blue Paul Roos footballer. He will play a big role for this footy club and someone who will do his job week in and week out and probably don't get the kudos he deserves. Think of Nick Smith from the sydney swans. An All Australian back pocket. But no one would know that. Love this pick.

Kennedy i am wrapt with. His under 18 days was damaging and he absolutely dominated. Roosy is a massive fan going by his reports and with the Sub now gone can't wait to actually see him play 4 qtr games. Will add some seriousleg speed to our side and can't wait for him and Kent to start buzzing around our half forward line.

 

[mauriesy 6,860]

13 hours ago, Munga said:

some people think that if a player walks off the ground in rd 23 as an average list clogger then all we have to do is talk about him all pre season and then in rd 1 he will be a gun. then they scratch their heads wondering why he "didn't come on".

I'm not expecting 'guns'. I'm expecting players who are more competitive than the ones we 'let go', who do their job and who may improve the list. There will be 'failures', but that's the nature of drafting and recruiting. Let's not deny in all the pessimism that some players do better with a change.

Ted Richards was 'let go' by Essendon and became a premiership player with the Swans. He's not a world beater but was a very effective backman in a premiership side. So was Rhyce Shaw, 'let go' by Collingwood. Maybe Roos just created a better environment for them.

Vince was 'let go' by Adelaide. Do you want to send him back?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

18 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

I'm not sure about having a crack at fellow posters for expressing their views Goodvibes, but I reckon the bolded part of your post is 'spot on'.  Hopefully all Demonlanders will be 100% aligned to that view by the end of 2016.

Agreed. It's not fair to have a go at any supporter of this club for being negative. We have had a bloody awful run. Apart from that, very solid post Goodvibes, although it has to be said that you are counting chickens just at the moment. We MUST get 9 or 10 wins minimum on the board this year for me to start to be convinced.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

46 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

I'd argue the vast majority of trade and draft periods have a fair bit of uncertainty, especially when the majority of players you bring in are draftee's, however gaining two top ten picks and a key forward of the quality of Wiederman i think is a positive

Why do people keep saying stuff like this. We stole from next year to use another pick this year. That is not a gain. Weideman is one of the picks so it's not two picks AND Weideman, is it? Also we lost a second round pick this draft which nobody seems to mention. It remains a FACT and will always BE a fact, that the club did not do it's homework in assessing the risk associated with Melksham.

 

 

[dazzledavey36 49,394]

These are the careers that Roos has turned around from when they are on the outter or just fringe player.

Ted Richards

Ben Mcglyn 

Josh Kennedy 

Rhys Shaw

Shane Mumford

Darren Jolly

Nick Davis

Bernie Vince

Jeff Garlett

Dom Tyson

That is a pretty good track record. If there are any i have missed please feel free to add more.

[stuie 7,374]

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

These are the careers that Roos has turned around from when they are on the outter or just fringe player.

Dom Tyson

Wouldn't really call that one a career "turn around" just yet...

[mauriesy 6,860]

3 minutes ago, Curry & Beer said:

Why do people keep saying stuff like this. We stole from next year to use another pick this year. That is not a gain. Weideman is one of the picks so it's not two picks AND Weideman, is it? Also we lost a second round pick this draft which nobody seems to mention. It remains a FACT and will always BE a fact, that the club did not do it's homework in assessing the risk associated with Melksham.

Maybe Roos et al assessed where the club is at and the expected progress to be made, and decided that a good player in the system this year (especially with the potential of Weideman or Oliver) was worth more than a first-round pick next year.

Don't over-emphasise the importance of losing Melksham. He was traded to play a running role off half back, a type of player we need. He cost us pick #25. Standing out for a year is not 'catastrophic'.

Why be so concerned that we are without him for just a season? Can't have it both ways, either he is 'good' and we can wait, or he is 'average' and it doesn't matter that much.

[dazzledavey36 49,394]

Just now, stuie said:

Wouldn't really call that one a career "turn around" just yet...

I would. No way would he have had the season that he did in 2014 if he was at the Giants. With our depleted midfield depth he was able to come in and show the potential he had. 2nd in the best fairest, 11 brownlow votes with 522 disposals and kicking 16.6 as a midfielder. I expect him to go to another level this year and get back to his best again.

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I would. No way would he have had the season that he did in 2014 if he was at the Giants. With our depleted midfield depth he was able to come in and show the potential he had. 2nd in the best fairest, 11 brownlow votes with 522 disposals and kicking 16.6 as a midfielder. I expect him to go to another level this year and get back to his best again.

1 year does not a career make. I have faith in him, but you can hardly call his career a "turn around" after last year.

 

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

7 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Maybe Roos et al assessed where the club is at and the expected progress to be made, and decided that a good player in the system this year (especially with the potential of Weideman or Oliver) was worth more than a first-round pick next year.

Don't over-emphasise the importance of losing Melksham. He was traded to play a running role off half back, a type of player we need. He cost us pick #25. Standing out for a year is not 'catastrophic'.

Why be so concerned that we are without him for just a season? Can't have it both ways, either he is 'good' and we can wait, or he is 'average' and it doesn't matter that much.

he is average, which makes it a questionable trade in the first place, but losing a year of his footy prime makes it worse. How is that 'having it both ways'?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I would. No way would he have had the season that he did in 2014 if he was at the Giants. With our depleted midfield depth he was able to come in and show the potential he had. 2nd in the best fairest, 11 brownlow votes with 522 disposals and kicking 16.6 as a midfielder. I expect him to go to another level this year and get back to his best again.

But he's not some washed-up fringe player. He was drafted at pick 3 in 2011, and two years later we traded for picks 2, 20 and 72 for Tyson, 9 and 53 - that's not a huge currency drop.