Where do you rate our midfield 2016

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

On 31/12/2015 at 0:54 PM, McQueen said:

Gawn has always got hands to the ball but has only recently made the progression to effective ruck work. Great midfielders will shark the oppositions poor taps but I think we're now past that.

a fit Gawn is super important - no doubt.

Gawn will have the biggest individual impact in shaping where we finish in 2016, followed closely by Hogan.

Given our limited and inexperienced ruck back up options (as Spencer is coming off long term injury and Max and Mitch King havent even played at afl level yet)  if Gawn goes down with injury we are pretty much screwed...and the other extreme being if he can back up from 2nd half of last year and push close to AA selection we are very good chance for 8th spot.  

 

 

[dazzledavey36 49,399]

People saying Petracca having a Hogan like season will be disappointed.. while he is a potentially player in the making, unlike Hogan CP has yet to play any form of senior footy in his life where is Hogan had the full VFL season against harden bodies and 4 NAB cup games in 2013.. He had already that 1 years experience against AFL bodies unlike Petracca has only played against kids. The step up and intensity will become a rude shock to him and will atleast take him a good month to get going.

Hogan also had a very big engine base while this was a weakness Petracca had to work on so expect to start on a half forward and rotate through the bench a lot.

The Hogan debut like was a freak once in a generation thing.. I can't see Petracca doing that especially coming a long further back then what Hogan did.

Edited January 3, 2016 by dazzledavey36

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

48 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

People saying Petracca having a Hogan like season will be disappointed.. while he is a potentially player in the making, unlike Hogan CP has yet to play any form of senior footy in his life where is Hogan had the full VFL season against harden bodies and 4 NAB cup games in 2013.. He had already that 1 years experience against AFL bodies unlike Petracca has only played against kids. The step up and intensity will become a rude shock to him and will atleast take him a good month to get going.

Hogan also had a very big engine base while this was a weakness Petracca had to work on so expect to start on a half forward and rotate through the bench a lot.

The Hogan debut like was a freak once in a generation thing.. I can't see Petracca doing that especially coming a long further back then what Hogan did.

still the favourite for the rising star, with good reason.. most likely to do a Brayshaw (and then some) to be the best midfielder and there will be no Hogan to pinch it off him

he will be better this year than he would have been last year, that year of development while recovering will give him a boost like it did for Hogan

[dazzledavey36 49,399]

1 hour ago, Curry & Beer said:

still the favourite for the rising star, with good reason.. most likely to do a Brayshaw (and then some) to be the best midfielder and there will be no Hogan to pinch it off him

he will be better this year than he would have been last year, that year of development while recovering will give him a boost like it did for Hogan

Exactly. His impact will be like Brayshaw probably even better as he is a natural up forward then he is in the midfield.

We wont see another debut like hogan for a very very long time.

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Exactly. His impact will be like Brayshaw probably even better as he is a natural up forward then he is in the midfield.

We wont see another debut like hogan for a very very long time.

Perhaps the better benchmark for Patrecca is Cripps' first season.  Hard to compare Hogan anyways being in the KPF role . Even Brayshaw was top 5 in the rising star so another Brayshaw like impact will be handy, but I agree with the other posts above that the extra year of development will push him a bit further than Brayshaw year one. Looking fwd to finally seeing them both on the park 

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

21 minutes ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

Perhaps the better benchmark for Patrecca is Cripps' first season.  Hard to compare Hogan anyways being in the KPF role . Even Brayshaw was top 5 in the rising star so another Brayshaw like impact will be handy, but I agree with the other posts above that the extra year of development will push him a bit further than Brayshaw year one. Looking fwd to finally seeing them both on the park 

I'm looking for the 1st+5th combo (Hogan+Brayshaw) to repeat again for Truck+Oliver Twist

[mauriesy 6,860]

Our midfield might be 'ordinary' in terms of 2015 output, but I don't think it's 'ordinary' in terms of potential. It then becomes a question of experience and individual player improvement, and if that's not in 2016 then it will be in 2017.

The sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned. I think the quality and potential of the young players is at least as good as what the Western Bulldogs and Richmond had a year or two ago, and they both made finals in 2015.

[Ted Lasso 17,145]

14 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

People saying Petracca having a Hogan like season will be disappointed.. while he is a potentially player in the making, unlike Hogan CP has yet to play any form of senior footy in his life where is Hogan had the full VFL season against harden bodies and 4 NAB cup games in 2013.. He had already that 1 years experience against AFL bodies unlike Petracca has only played against kids. The step up and intensity will become a rude shock to him and will atleast take him a good month to get going.

Hogan also had a very big engine base while this was a weakness Petracca had to work on so expect to start on a half forward and rotate through the bench a lot.

The Hogan debut like was a freak once in a generation thing.. I can't see Petracca doing that especially coming a long further back then what Hogan did.

I'd argue it did for Hogan as well, showed some flashes of how good he was going to be but really didn't have a huge impact in the first few games, in comparision to the type of form he did build into,  but Petracca is training extremely well, has a very big developed body and i see no reason he can't have a significant impact next year, the interchange cap is the huge variable, i think that will make things tough for all young players.

[dazzledavey36 49,399]

4 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

I'd argue it did for Hogan as well, showed some flashes of how good he was going to be but really didn't have a huge impact in the first few games, in comparision to the type of form he did build into,  but Petracca is training extremely well, has a very big developed body and i see no reason he can't have a significant impact next year, the interchange cap is the huge variable, i think that will make things tough for all young players.

Good point. That's why I mentioned Petracca will be used in burst rotating from half forward to the bench. The interchange cap will have a big impact on young kids.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

9 hours ago, mauriesy said:

Our midfield might be 'ordinary' in terms of 2015 output, but I don't think it's 'ordinary' in terms of potential. It then becomes a question of experience and individual player improvement, and if that's not in 2016 then it will be in 2017.

The sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned. I think the quality and potential of the young players is at least as good as what the Western Bulldogs and Richmond had a year or two ago, and they both made finals in 2015.

Spot on. Jones, Vince, Trengove, Tyson, Viney, vandenBerg, Brayshaw, Salem, Petracca, Oliver, Neal-Bullen, Melksham, Stretch, Kent with Gawn as our number ruck should be a pretty strong nucleus in 2017. That's 15 players.

[Mach5 4,490]

32 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

Spot on. Jones, Vince, Trengove, Tyson, Viney, vandenBerg, Brayshaw, Salem, Petracca, Oliver, Neal-Bullen, Melksham, Stretch, Kent with Gawn as our number ruck should be a pretty strong nucleus in 2017. That's 15 players.

I reckon you can put Harmes, Bugg and Kennedy in that lot too. Some might doubt the 2nd two, but I doubt we brought them across to play VFL.

Strength in numbers at the very least.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I'll give you Bugg Mach but I'm not as bullish as other in regards to Harmes and Kennedy is the least likely of our three trades to cement a starting place in our midfield. All three, however, do speak to the improved level of depth we now possess. The key though, is whether two or three of our young midfielders become genuine stars of the comp. The potential that mauriesy speaks of is cause for genuine excitement. Viney, Tyson, Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver, Petracca. Wow.

[CHF 2,623]

8 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

I'd argue it did for Hogan as well, showed some flashes of how good he was going to be but really didn't have a huge impact in the first few games, in comparision to the type of form he did build into,  but Petracca is training extremely well, has a very big developed body and i see no reason he can't have a significant impact next year, the interchange cap is the huge variable, i think that will make things tough for all young players.

One thing that I hope the interchange cap will get rid of is the goal scorer being sat on the bench immediately after scoring. I have never seen the sense in that move at all and will not be sorry to see the end of it.

 

 

 

[DeeSpencer 23,509]

Viney is training well, looks set to back up last year. Jones is healthy now, hopefully has no negatives from the surgery and can be ever better than last year. 

Unfortunately Vince, Tyson, Brayshaw and Vanders aren't in full training. But Vince had 2 hammies last year and is only dealing with a finger injury now, he should be ok. Brayshaw is still ahead of last year. Vanders is looking absolutely ripped and came off a shoulder last year and Tyson needed to build his tank anyway and is running strongly.

Gawn is having a good preseason. 

That's the core of our ball winning mids.

Depth is interesting. Lot of options. Salem and Melksham will probably start back. Harmes, Watts, Petracca, JKH, Kent, Kennedy all can compete for half forward/midfield spots. Michie and Newton are interesting for different reasons, it's a shame Newton isn't having a good preseason.

The big weakness is outside run and speed. Stretch continues to impress me but that's about it. We really need guys listed in other rolls to cover. 

Oliver providing some midfield minutes would be a bonus. Trengove a double bonus. 

I like our ball winning options and progress, but it's a long year and we'll need contributors to keep improving. A big year in making sure development is on track both for young players and for more experienced types stepping up. 

[Gator 16,921]

On 1/3/2016 at 9:30 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

People saying Petracca having a Hogan like season will be disappointed.. while he is a potentially player in the making, unlike Hogan CP has yet to play any form of senior footy in his life where is Hogan had the full VFL season against harden bodies and 4 NAB cup games in 2013.. He had already that 1 years experience against AFL bodies unlike Petracca has only played against kids. The step up and intensity will become a rude shock to him and will atleast take him a good month to get going.

Hogan also had a very big engine base while this was a weakness Petracca had to work on so expect to start on a half forward and rotate through the bench a lot.

The Hogan debut like was a freak once in a generation thing.. I can't see Petracca doing that especially coming a long further back then what Hogan did.

Nah, Petracca will be a sensation if he's confident in his knee.

He's already 20, unlike Trengove who excelled in his debut year playing every game as an 18 year old.

And forget the bit about "playing against men", Petracca will be stronger than most of hem.

Happy to disagree.

[dazzledavey36 49,399]

8 hours ago, ProDee said:

Nah, Petracca will be a sensation if he's confident in his knee.

He's already 20, unlike Trengove who excelled in his debut year playing every game as an 18 year old.

And forget the bit about "playing against men", Petracca will be stronger than most of hem.

Happy to disagree.

Agree to disagree.

Look put it this way if Petracca goes on and blows the competition away like Hogan did and even wins the RS award il bake a humble pie for myself with your name in it.

In all seriousness though if Petracca does come and do what Hogan did then it will just clarify that our development is finally on the right path for once.

[nutbean 8,837]

23 hours ago, mauriesy said:

Our midfield might be 'ordinary' in terms of 2015 output, but I don't think it's 'ordinary' in terms of potential. It then becomes a question of experience and individual player improvement, and if that's not in 2016 then it will be in 2017.

The sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned. I think the quality and potential of the young players is at least as good as what the Western Bulldogs and Richmond had a year or two ago, and they both made finals in 2015.

Over many years we have had quality and potential come into the club only to see that potential never realised.

Finally, I believe we have the coaching expertise in place, that will eek every bit of talent out of these youngsters.

I am very excited. (slap me Old Dee - I'm getting too giddy)

[CBDees 3,162]

Interesting that everybody has had attempts at analysing our midfield depth but nobody has factored in M. Jones (apart from mentioning him and Terlich as possible delistings before next season's draft)! If Roos is not trying to talk him up, maybe we might see him in contention next year?

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-01-05/list-update-hunt-jetta-and-mjones

[Gator 16,921]

19 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Agree to disagree.

Look put it this way if Petracca goes on and blows the competition away like Hogan did and even wins the RS award il bake a humble pie for myself with your name in it.

In all seriousness though if Petracca does come and do what Hogan did then it will just clarify that our development is finally on the right path for once.

From memory you argued with me last year about Brayshaw,  I said he'd play round 1 and play 20 games.  You and others kept harping on about him developing at Casey.

Last year I said Hogan would kick over 40 - 50 goals and was ridiculed for "unrealistic expectations".  Of course, my expectations were never unrealistic and based purely on what I'd seen and sensible analysis.

Petracca is no different.  If his confidence is in the right place he will have a Hogan like season and kick 30 goals.

Start searching for pie recipes now.

 

[dazzledavey36 49,399]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

From memory you argued with me last year about Brayshaw,  I said he'd play round 1 and play 20 games.  You and others kept harping on about him developing at Casey.

Last year I said Hogan would kick over 40 - 50 goals and was ridiculed for "unrealistic expectations".  Of course, my expectations were never unrealistic and based purely on what I'd seen and sensible analysis.

Petracca is no different.  If his confidence is in the right place he will have a Hogan like season and kick 30 goals.

Start searching for pie recipes now.

 

Yeah... You have got the wrong person mate. I was in the camp that we had to get Brayshaw in our round 1 side asap after he dominated those 3 Casey Games. While some wanted him to develop at Casey I have always said that If a player is ready and has AFL potential traits they'll develop quicker at AFL level than VFL level, bit like Wines, Selwood Martin etc. They adapt to the quicker game style and skill that that the VFL lack.

I fact if you want to have a read yourself and even a bit of a laugh here it is. http://demonland.com/forums/topic/38117-does-brayshaw-play-round-1/?page=2

I also put Clayton Oliver in the same boat too.

[Gator 16,921]

25 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yeah... You have got the wrong person mate. I was in the camp that we had to get Brayshaw in our round 1 side asap after he dominated those 3 Casey Games. While some wanted him to develop at Casey I have always said that If a player is ready and has AFL potential traits they'll develop quicker at AFL level than VFL level, bit like Wines, Selwood Martin etc. They adapt to the quicker game style and skill that that the VFL lack.

I fact if you want to have a read yourself and even a bit of a laugh here it is. http://demonland.com/forums/topic/38117-does-brayshaw-play-round-1/?page=2

I also put Clayton Oliver in the same boat too.

Ah, yes.  An enjoyable read.

Retracted.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

3 hours ago, CBDees said:

Interesting that everybody has had attempts at analysing our midfield depth but nobody has factored in M. Jones (apart from mentioning him and Terlich as possible delistings before next season's draft)! If Roos is not trying to talk him up, maybe we might see him in contention next year?

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-01-05/list-update-hunt-jetta-and-mjones

Interesting read and good point CBDees

I rate M Jones as an outside attacking player. He seems to lack defensively (not that I really know) but all things being equal (no injuries etc) I think he could be a valuable contributor.

1 think the teams lacks is outside run

[rjay 24,066]

3 hours ago, CBDees said:

Interesting that everybody has had attempts at analysing our midfield depth but nobody has factored in M. Jones (apart from mentioning him and Terlich as possible delistings before next season's draft)! If Roos is not trying to talk him up, maybe we might see him in contention next year?

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-01-05/list-update-hunt-jetta-and-mjones

“Matty had a frustrating 2015 season – being in and out of the team. But we gave him some real clear instructions in the off-season and his pre-Christmas has been exceptional. He would’ve been in our top five or six trainers prior to Christmas, so it’s a real credit to him.” – Paul Roos

I don't think anyone denies Matty Jones diligence and effort, it's really his ability to step up to the AFL level.

He is a depth player fighting for his career, good on him for doing everything asked of him and more. He will never die wondering unlike some others we've had over the years.

[J.L. 15]

I spoke to an insider recently and came away with two main points:

VB - The club are expecting big things from him this year, he's very highly rated despite a slow start to his pre season. 

Truck - He's a forward. 

I've been pessimistic for the best part of the last decade, but It's hard not to get excited about 2016/17!  It's coming folks! 

 

 

[juzzk1d 1,354]

Melbourne has one of the best young midfield lists in the league. I am stoked at how our midfield is actually shaping up with pure aggression mixed with talent.