One thing I am certain about Toump is that he gives 100% to try and be the best he can be. By now we know that he'll never be Ollie Wines but we have to move on and while he's giving 100% effort, get behind the kid, encourage him, no bronx cheers, and help him be the best he can be.

I think he tries to give his best, but cannot because of mental limitations. Hopefully this deal will help him build his confidence in himself and be the best possible player he can be.

And how many good players have nominated Melbourne as their destination of choice in recent years? If other clubs were banging our door down to acquire Toumpas, of course I'd do a trade. But that's not likely, so let's try and develop him, rather than using a late pick in a shallow draft.

I know it didn't work out well but we attracted Mitch Clark, Dawes chose us, and probably the best trade we've done for as long as I can remember Bernie Vince chose us.

We are slowly becoming more desireable; Roos is a drawcard, we are on the way up (again slowly), and who wouldn't want to be someone kicking it down the throat of Jesse Hogan for the next 10 years?

Still no official word of this contract signing. Could it have just been speculation?

Throughout this thread people refer to Toumpas's confidence and his mentality as being problematic. Is that groupthink, perhaps based on Satyr's earlier comments about his conversations with Toumpas at training? Or is there substance to this claim? I often wonder about statements like this (and similar ones about other players such as "he's homesick" or "he's best mates with...")

I know it didn't work out well but we attracted Mitch Clark, Dawes chose us, and probably the best trade we've done for as long as I can remember Bernie Vince chose us.

We are slowly becoming more desireable; Roos is a drawcard, we are on the way up (again slowly), and who wouldn't want to be someone kicking it down the throat of Jesse Hogan for the next 10 years?

All are different situations to the likes of Boyd, Dangerfield, Treloar, Caddy, and Adams, where required players want out, and they then disclose their destination of choice.

Clark, Dawes and Vince were basic trades where the other clubs liked what we had to offer, and were happy to trade the players.

I dont really care if he is , or isnt good enough /better even at another club. My caveat was 'Maybe" and thats for the new club to decide.

I dont see him adding much to us.

or we can wait another 2 years and then think...hmmm...that was another 2 years of "potential" etc

A mistake we're making as a club is hanging on to far TOO many for too long. We need brutality here and now. Need to sum up players as to to top 22 or not... We have far too many nqrs..

if we aspire to mediocrity...then by all means keep them....if we actually want to get somewhere.....time to trade up. Toumps might only be a deposit on a better player but thats what you need to do.

He's not even getting a game at MFC at present. We are currently the worst team in the league (watch the last 3 games again). Why would we keep a player like that?

He's not even getting a game at MFC at present. We are currently the worst team in the league (watch the last 3 games again). Why would we keep a player like that?

A very good question

He's not even getting a game at MFC at present. We are currently the worst team in the league (watch the last 3 games again). Why would we keep a player like that?

got me buggered !!

He's not even getting a game at MFC at present. We are currently the worst team in the league (watch the last 3 games again). Why would we keep a player like that?

Too embarrassing to quit?

I didn't know that a sound club makes list management decisions based on who is not playing or who is out of form during the last month of football and that a team can jump 4 bad teams to be the worst team on the evidence of three weeks...

I didn't know that a sound club makes list management decisions based on who is not playing or who is out of form during the last month of football and that a team can jump 4 bad teams to be the worst team on the evidence of three weeks...

Clearly you have a lot to learn rpfc!

I know it didn't work out well but we attracted Mitch Clark, Dawes chose us, and probably the best trade we've done for as long as I can remember Bernie Vince chose us.

We are slowly becoming more desireable; Roos is a drawcard, we are on the way up (again slowly), and who wouldn't want to be someone kicking it down the throat of Jesse Hogan for the next 10 years?

we've headed backwards on the desirability factor in the last 2 months, that's for sure

All are different situations to the likes of Boyd, Dangerfield, Treloar, Caddy, and Adams, where required players want out, and they then disclose their destination of choice.

Clark, Dawes and Vince were basic trades where the other clubs liked what we had to offer, and were happy to trade the players.

The player still has to agree to the trade. That is the stupid thing with the system we have, the players can effectively choose where they go under all circumstances.

Throughout this thread people refer to Toumpas's confidence and his mentality as being problematic. Is that groupthink, perhaps based on Satyr's earlier comments about his conversations with Toumpas at training? Or is there substance to this claim? I often wonder about statements like this (and similar ones about other players such as "he's homesick" or "he's best mates with...")

This one's got substance to it. There's a quote from Roos that he needs to stop comparing himself to other top draft picks, and another from the skipper saying he needs to learn to get over his mistakes quickly and get on with the game. Beyond that, you only need to see him on telly - the doubt is often writ large on his face when he has the ball.

The difference is, most will give the stupid one meter hand ball, Toumpas tries to find a better option. Like Watts, he is looking for our players to run to the right spots. And they don't.

My biggest queries are speed and defensive mindset which is basically absent imo. Where's my opponent? Oh over there lining up for a goal...

Gives people more time to enjoy their Wines.

(and before anyone says players dont have opponents any more have a good look at Roosey's game plan)

For his faults, real or perceived, Jimmy has 2 assets we are really short on:

1. Good footy IQ. Not as good as Watts but up there.

2. Very nice kick. Can kick long and flat and not bomb it in.

Players like that do not grow on trees!

So, worth given a chance to work on his faults. 2 years is fair for this.

This one's got substance to it. There's a quote from Roos that he needs to stop comparing himself to other top draft picks, and another from the skipper saying he needs to learn to get over his mistakes quickly and get on with the game. Beyond that, you only need to see him on telly - the doubt is often writ large on his face when he has the ball.

sounds like Colin Garland

This one's got substance to it. There's a quote from Roos that he needs to stop comparing himself to other top draft picks, and another from the skipper saying he needs to learn to get over his mistakes quickly and get on with the game. Beyond that, you only need to see him on telly - the doubt is often writ large on his face when he has the ball.

We criticize players very readily here and players themselves no doubt scrutinise themselves harshly. JT seems to be one of those that seems unsure if he 'belongs'. If he can learn to play without that burden and play a natural game his talent should come through, He has a great work ethic and effort is not his problem...

For his faults, real or perceived, Jimmy has 2 assets we are really short on:

1. Good footy IQ. Not as good as Watts but up there.

2. Very nice kick. Can kick long and flat and not bomb it in. (?)

Players like that do not grow on trees!

So, worth given a chance to work on his faults. 2 years is fair for this.

when...loves kicking rain makers !! just saying

so this whole thread of 10 pages is based on a jay clark rumour?

i'll stay sceptical until i have better proof

if he does indeed sign with us, it is important that we support him during these 2 years and give him every chance of making it. As someone mentioned earlier, it will be 2 years of either he shows he has got it, or not and we as supporters should be hoping he does and support him as such.

song. Sadly there are folk here who regardless of what he may or may not do over the next couple of season have their minds made up that he is no good. Nothing other than perhaps a Brownlow (unlikely as it is) would change their minds.

I agree 100% that we should be supportive of all players on our list, at very least at the start of each new season.......other will think differently. Such is life.

It didn't affect nor effect Jack Viney.

Toumpas even boarded with the Vineys for a period.

Plowman and O'Rourke have played less games and hardly shown anything more than the Toump.

Lets give our coaches time to develop him rather than the usual benchmark that high draft picks are unfairly measured against. Roos said on 360 on Monday night that AFL is probably the only elite sporting competition in the world that has a dedicated group of coaches working purely on development of the clubs players.

Like everything within the game, development methods are evolving.

If Toumpas is re-signed for a another two years it obviously means two things:

1. Roos and Goodwin think he can cut it at AFL level.

2. They can see a role for him in the game plan moving forward.

But as I alluded to, some here like to think they know more than Roos and Goodwin.

The difference is, most will give the stupid one meter hand ball, Toumpas tries to find a better option. Like Watts, he is looking for our players to run to the right spots. And they don't.

I must admit that I haven't observed him specifically closely enough to share that observation, but certainly our half backs and mids get 'caught in the headlights' far less often on those sadly too rare occasions that our mids and forwards actually choose to run and create options. It is a team problem. One that Roos needs to address urgently before pre season 2016 starts.

I didn't know that a sound club makes list management decisions based on who is not playing or who is out of form during the last month of football and that a team can jump 4 bad teams to be the worst team on the evidence of three weeks...

Really? Were you at the Carlton debacle or the Bulldogs embarassment? What about St Kilda? This team has no pride, no intensity and is an utter disgrace.