Changes next week v The Saints

[rjay 24,677]

Listen to a majority of Roos' pressers, in particular when we were going through that run of injuries. JKH's name is mentioned most times when he talks about important players being out (along with Kent's name). Roos also didn't have him spend much time at Casey after returning from injury.

In regards to his play, I watch him probably closer than any of our players. His positioning is very good, and will only get better the more games he plays in the seniors.

I might have mentioned this earlier in the year, but I can see JKH being one of those players that only needs low teens possessions and have a real impact.

All that said, we all look at the game from different angles, and while I see a lot of positives with him, clearly others don't. I'm satisfied with what I am seeing.

He just doesn't dispose of the ball well enough for mine at the moment 'billy' and misses easy shots at goal when he gets the opportunity.

I hope you are right about his long term future though...

[What 18,810]

In the games Grimes has played this season his kicking has been much improved and he has hit targets more often than not and didn't have his usually two out of bounds on the full per game.

He will play this week I think. A ready made veteran to give the kids a breather. It will make the team better.

[deespicable me 1,472]

In the first half for Casey Grimes played back and didn't go so well. He turned the ball over and although he is a good one on one backman he had no effect in running the ball out of defence. In the second half though he played on a wing and rotated a bit through the middle and was much more effective. His goal in the third quarter when Toumpas handballed to him as he ran to the 50 was one of the goals of the day, also Toumpas's best play and gave hope to those of us who would like to see those two stay at Melbourne and become good players in a good side.

Most players are judged by their ability to attack and be involved in goal scoring and we forgive their lack of accountability to put on pressure when we don't have the ball. Jurrah a classic example (wow he was worth it though). A lot of posters would like to see Hunt given a go but in reality if he was playing at the Box Hill Hawks he wouldn't even be considered for this year and would be told to work on a variety of roles and certain skills would need to be ticked off before consideration for the seniors. This way when those players do get a go they can fit into the Hawks style of playing. Hunt is showing good signs but I would prefer he is developed properly for the rest of the year. I'm not sure if that includes a senior game, it may.

Grimes though is the opposite of a Hunt. He is dour and defensive minded. He needs to work on his attacking play. On Saturday in the Casey side he showed progress. He should be considered for a wing/ HF/HB/mid rotation role. I certainly believe players can develop and to get rid of Grimes at the end of the year when he is great depth and still a chance to be a permanent part of our best 22 is short sighted by one or two posters. The importance of Casey being a good side should not be underestimated. You only had to see how poor the Blues were to appreciate we are definitely ahead of them in our development and there were 5 or 6 players playing for Casey who could walk straight into Melbournes senior side and perform well. The Blues looked very thin.

Toumpas is playing in the midfield at Casey and is still uncomfortable in contested situations. He is working really hard and shows vision ala when he handpassed to Grimes in space for that goal. At some point he should get another stint at senior level as part of that development. The idea is that eventually he will stay there as part of our best 22

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

In the games Grimes has played this season his kicking has been much improved and he has hit targets more often than not and didn't have his usually two out of bounds on the full per game.

He will play this week I think. A ready made veteran to give the kids a breather. It will make the team better.

What?

Whether he comes in or not this week doesn't bother me. It's the fact that we have so many similar players who are terrible decision makers.

Even though Jack got a lot of ball on the weekend, some of his hospital handballs and just general 'slowness' when it comes to releasing the ball is genuinely concerning.

[Deespicable 2,683]

Whilst i agree that at this stage Toump has shortcomings, i am not one to right off players who have not had a fair run due to injury. i have faith that Jimmy, whist perhaps not being a star, can be a 200 game player. I am also not one who consistently and relentlessly compares him to other players .

Please print out your statement and place on your wall at home. Sometimes we all get it wrong and have blind faith.

I used to think in their first couple of years that Brent Grgic and Cale Morton were going to be greats for Melbourne!

Here's a test you can apply to all recruits and to Jimmy.

Is he mega quick?

Can he kick more than 50m?

Is he a ferocious tackler?

Can he evade players (always has time)?

Is he a good mark for his size?

Does he have awareness/smarts?

Stars of the future: Brayshaw, for example, get 5 out of 6, - that's why he's loved.

Even being nice about Jimmy, he only gets one out of 6.

[Skuit 10,002]

We should ignore his first game back. It's difficult to assess any player who's the sub who doesn't come on until late in the game, whether they play well or not. Questions remain about him, but it seems to me he still needs to adapt to the speed of the game. As I've said previously, spending time in the seconds won't help because it's played at a different speed. Whether we can wait until he adapts at the top level is the big question. Given where we are at, I'd keep playing him in the seniors for a little longer.

Exactly what I've been thinking. And I think Toump may also be in the same boat. That there's nothing fundamentally wrong with these players but they just haven't adjusted to the pace yet, with the pressure and hesitation leading to ugly turnovers and then that affecting confidence. They both seem over-coached almost, like instruction hasn't translated to instinct yet and they have to think about every move. Less chance to adapt to the pace in the seconds but more of an opportunity to develop rhythm. Quandary. But I think the deep end is the best bet with some caring pats on the back.

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

Exactly what I've been thinking. And I think Toump may also be in the same boat. That there's nothing fundamentally wrong with these players but they just haven't adjusted to the pace yet, with the pressure and hesitation leading to ugly turnovers and then that affecting confidence. They both seem over-coached almost, like instruction hasn't translated to instinct yet and they have to think about every move. Less chance to adapt to the pace in the seconds but more of an opportunity to develop rhythm. Quandary. But I think the deep end is the best bet with some caring pats on the back.

Ollie Wines doesn't have this problem ask PF.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Abuse? Calling him an idiot?

Not necessary

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

In: Hope for Jack Trengove

Out: Hope for some other players to be on the list next year

Ben Guthrie ‏@AFL_BenGuthrie 22m

22 minutes ago

Some good news for Melbourne's Jack Trengove after foot scan. He has been cleared to start running in coming weeks. Fracture healing well.

[Moneider96 1,045]

In: Hope for Jack Trengove

Out: Hope for some other players to be on the list next year

Ben Guthrie ‏@AFL_BenGuthrie 22m

22 minutes ago

Some good news for Melbourne's Jack Trengove after foot scan. He has been cleared to start running in coming weeks. Fracture healing well.

That's great news!!!

[Lucifers Hero 39,045]

New gets better: Salem will play in VFL on Sunday.

[What 18,810]

Misson says in todays update -

Trenners can start running again

Salem will play VFL this week

Kent had some tightness on the weekend, scans are clear but mightn't play this week

Sam Frost is doing running sessions but out another 5 weeks still

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

Misson says in todays update -

Trenners can start running again

Salem will play VFL this week

Kent had some tightness on the weekend, scans are clear but mightn't play this week

Sam Frost is doing running sessions but out another 5 weeks still

So Frost should just get himself ready for pre-season.

[What 18,810]

So Frost should just get himself ready for pre-season.

Yeah sounds like it.. Disappointing isnt it, he showed some really nice signs in those early games, hes a great athlete that can fill different roles.. we have missed his presence.

No doubt he will come back bigger and better in 2016.

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

Yeah sounds like it.. Disappointing isnt it, he showed some really nice signs in those early games, hes a great athlete that can fill different roles.. we have missed his presence.

No doubt he will come back bigger and better in 2016.

Very disappointing. Petrattack, Trengrove and Frost for 2016

[Samael 560]

We should ignore his first game back. It's difficult to assess any player who's the sub who doesn't come on until late in the game, whether they play well or not. Questions remain about him, but it seems to me he still needs to adapt to the speed of the game. As I've said previously, spending time in the seconds won't help because it's played at a different speed. Whether we can wait until he adapts at the top level is the big question. Given where we are at, I'd keep playing him in the seniors for a little longer.

Michie was dropped after coming on as sub against St Kilda. Had a shocker but was THE ONLY PLAYER to go back, out of position, after we hit the front with 41 seconds to go, only to have Crossy come on and tell him to get out and into position. JKH is over rated and if he reads the play so well how come he doesn't get it.

[Chelly 808]

Slightly off topic but what's the prognosis on Nick Riewoldt - heard he was a bit proppy after the game on Sunday.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Yeah sounds like it.. Disappointing isnt it, he showed some really nice signs in those early games, hes a great athlete that can fill different roles.. we have missed his presence.

No doubt he will come back bigger and better in 2016.

That scares me. He is a monster already.

Edited July 21, 2015 by The Song Formerly Known As

[Moneider96 1,045]

Riewoldt apparently pulled up well. Subject to a fitness test on Thursday, he should play (according to their doctor).

[Adam The God 29,655]

I don't know where you get this from about Roos loving him and I think you are overselling him.

I'm also not so sure about his positioning from a team sense and I don't in anyway see him as being ready to tare a game apart. He's shown no signs of doing this.

He's not quick, he's not great at positioning himself in the right areas. His strengths so far has been his agility, but he's shown nothing this season.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Very disappointing. Petrattack, Trengrove and Frost for 2016

and TBD A+ midfielder apparently

[Skuit 10,002]

Ollie Wines doesn't have this problem ask PF.

But Viney did a bit initially as well. Would PF have taken Ollie over Jack if GWS had bid?

[dtrinh 71]

I think with Grimes it would be best to develop him in the midfield at Casey so keep him there for the rest of the season. I think he's been in limbo because of his positional changes. He started off in the midfield a bit who floated back, we remember the brave Grimes that would push back and go up third man up in defence. Ever since he's been pigeon holed as a back. I think we should develop him more in a Luke Hodge mould. He is definitely not as good skill wise but he reads the game well, he is hard at the contest, is willing to tackle, can play as the 'tagging' sort of player which then helps free Vince up more. When needed I think he could play as the floating backman to help our defence.

With JKH, it's tough, he's only been back from injury for two games, his first being the sub. Give him more games, before he went down he was looking good working with kent and gartlet as the small forward rolls.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

"Grimes was in the team until injured"....What are you going on about? Round 1 Grimes didn't play despite being fit.

Jack Grimes 2015 games.

Rd 1 Not selected.

Rd 2 Not selected.

Rd 3 Not selected.

Rd 4 Not selected.

Rd 5 Played.

Rd 6 Dropped.

Rd 7 Played.

Rd 8 Played.

Rd 9 Played.

Rd 10 Dropped....again.

Rd 11 Played and sustained an injury.

Rd 12 Injured.

Rd 13 Injured.

Rd 14 Injured.

Rd 15 Injured? I think he was available, can't remember.

Rd 16 Not selected.

What I find amusing is that when people give their reasons as to why he should be in the side things like "leadership" and "great speaker" are thrown up, never "elite disposal", decision making", "defensive pressure", "ability to take the game on".

Regardless of whatever reason you choose to believe as to why Grimes hasn't become the footballer we all thought he would be is irrelevant. Fact is he's had plenty of opportunities(years) and judging by his lack of games this year it could safe to assume that the coaching panel as a whole have identified him as a player that doesn't have the ability to take us forward.

Come years end if Roos//Goodwin went into trade week and told 17 others clubs you can have Grimes for a pick in late 50's/60's all you have to do is pick up his wage, how many takers would there be? Honestly, Not sure if Carlton would want him, Brisbane might due to the state of their list. In recent seasons we have targeted ready made/mature players,(fringe players at other clubs/players from state leagues)players like Michie, Newton and VB. Stating the obvious they may not all work out, but we at least we've tried. If VB makes it and the other two don't that's not a bad result. I think they were all given an initial two year contact. Those that don't make the grade get moved on and we try again.

Yet for some reason many think Grimes is the exception. "His disposal has dramatically improved", so he's gone from diabolical to average/below average. You only have to look at the Hawks/Swans game to understand how far we are behind the Swans and how far they are behind the Hawks.

Feel free to hang on.

My uneducated comments....you idiot.

Aren't you the highly intelligent poster that said Grimes wouldn't play again after not playing round 1, then again after round 5. Then again after round 10.

Did someone say something about a record..l

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,220]

Aren't you the highly intelligent poster that said Grimes wouldn't play again after not playing round 1, then again after round 5. Then again after round 10.

Did someone say something about a record..l

And that's your response? I will happily say I thought Grimes may not get a game. He's played five, and yes he's been injured. But he was fit to play last week and wasn't rushed back into the side....why? Why was dropped twice? Why wasn't he in the round 1 side? You said yourself he was in the side until he got injured. Are you sure you've got the right year?