POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Earl Hood 5,788]

Angrier about Garlett

Chook the thing that killed us again today was the number of clean defensive marks taken by the Saints in our forward 50. It killed us last week and again this week. From where I was watching I saw Garlett nearby ready to pounce on a spilled ball but they aren't happening enough on top of a side that barely equals the oppositions inside 50 count in a game. Is this where Dawes can add some value in just getting to marking contests and brining it down for at least a 50/50. Our defensive efforts inside our own 50 are putrid. Unless it goes straight to Hogan we struggle.

[Ruzz63Ron 58]

Was there today and as gutted as anyone else. Riewoldt always kills us. With the inside 50 count e were lucky to be in front with 40 seconds left. Last year we did to Essendon what St Kilda did to us. That's footy.

We are still 4-5 players out of our best team - Kent, Frost, Garland and possibly Dawes. I wish we had the bye next week, but we don't - we need to suck it up and take it to the cats.

Hogan will be a star as will Brayshaw. Stretch looks ok and Toumpas was v.good. Garlett was Shiite - he is a downhill skier.

[JV7 2,339]

Roos just absolutely let rip at the leaders apparently, one silly brain fade has undone all the good work before it

This behind closed doors ? Because he seemed controlled at his presser

[stuie 7,374]

'Apologists' can stop patting the young kids on the back?

First of all, why is someone an 'apologist' for supporting our kids? Second, what is wrong with supporting the kids?

The kids aren't the problem, the senior players are. I don't really care how many touches Jones or Vince got, or whether Dunn held Bruce, their lack of leadership is horrendous (not just today, all season) and that's the reason we're losing. It's not the kids. Quite clearly we are being held back by the lack of leadership.

As for the ball movement, the problem is primarily personnel. We carry unskilled players (Riley, Michie), but more than that we don't run hard enough for long enough. Whether that's fitness, work ethic, confidence, or a combination of those things, we regularly do not have players making space forward of the ball. When we do, we actually look great. But that happens far too irregularly.

What I mean by the apologists is the ones saying oh we'll be right we have Hogan and Brayshaw, the future is bright... Yeah well we heard the same things about Scully and Trengove, Morton, Gysberts, Sylvia, Jurrah and on and on... A bright future doesn't automatically get handed to use based on talent. Nothing to do with supporting the kids, but it's all about not always expecting the kids to be the ones where our improvement comes from. How about the leaders? How about the coach? Why do they get let off the hook because we have some good kids?

[Binmans PA 25,993]

its got me stuffed.

Richardson beat Roos today....simple as. One bloke used what he had at hand much cleverer than the other.

Rubbish, mate.

[Soidee 1,496]

Dare I say it yet again! Leadership onfield is the worst in the AFL...PERIOD

[titan_uranus 22,287]

What I mean by the apologists is the ones saying oh we'll be right we have Hogan and Brayshaw, the future is bright... Yeah well we heard the same things about Scully and Trengove, Morton, Gysberts, Sylvia, Jurrah and on and on... A bright future doesn't automatically get handed to use based on talent. Nothing to do with supporting the kids, but it's all about not always expecting the kids to be the ones where our improvement comes from. How about the leaders? How about the coach? Why do they get let off the hook because we have some good kids?

I agree with you, although I think it's fair for us to note that we do have talented players on the list around whom a future can be built.

Whether we build it obviously remains to be seen, but it's not like there is nothing on the list to look at and say 'yes, there is something to work with there'. The players you've listed were almost all the Bailey era (i.e. under Neeld we had very little, if anything, to get excited about).

[Thehardtackler 785]

The whole coaching team and the players need to review that game hard. The 3 goals we kicked at the end of the 2nd quarter largely came from a lift in intensity that came from some choice words coming from supporters about urgency and intensity. This team is kidding us, some of the players only show intensity for patches of the game instead of the full match.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

ill tell you why I blame Roos...a million Plus Reasons.

Why ARENT players listening, why aren't they doing what asked ?

St kilda followed their instructions. Ours do thir "own" thang !!

Eventually the buck has to stop in the box...so I put it there for now ....

Please explain !!!!!!

im talking about the last 40 secs Bub.

However, to answer your post, We still have a bog ordinary list with zero depth. Our best 22 i feel is pretty solid, but nobody demands a spot as soon as we get injuries, we start filling gaps with players barely AFL standard. Saints had maybe 2 best 22 out, we had arguably 5 or 6, we would beat the saints at full strength comfortably i reckon.

Anyway we are still looking at another massive cleanout before we can start to be taken seriously. Bottom 4 easily as i had suspected before the season began. Yes we should have won tonight but Im not wrist slitting like most on here.

[doc roet 1,199]

I started following this club in 1964 after they won the premiership.I was 11 years old,and sick of my familys team (south melb) getting beat week in week out,

so I defected.I have been loyal ever since,but unable to pass it on to my sons and now 10 yo grandson,because of the years upon years of woefull games.

I am starting to think the only way we can get some confidence into this group and its supporters is to do a Tony Abbott and quiety pay the other team to lose,

or I am going to be in my box before I see another flag.

[Earl Hood 5,788]

What I mean by the apologists is the ones saying oh we'll be right we have Hogan and Brayshaw, the future is bright... Yeah well we heard the same things about Scully and Trengove, Morton, Gysberts, Sylvia, Jurrah and on and on... A bright future doesn't automatically get handed to use based on talent. Nothing to do with supporting the kids, but it's all about not always expecting the kids to be the ones where our improvement comes from. How about the leaders? How about the coach? Why do they get let off the hook because we have some good kids?

My worry is about keeping some of these kids. They have what it takes but they won't tick around past their next contracts if we don't get our act together and start winning games.

[stuie 7,374]

I agree with you, although I think it's fair for us to note that we do have talented players on the list around whom a future can be built.

Whether we build it obviously remains to be seen, but it's not like there is nothing on the list to look at and say 'yes, there is something to work with there'. The players you've listed were almost all the Bailey era (i.e. under Neeld we had very little, if anything, to get excited about).

Yeah look, I LOVE the young blokes we have right now, I'm just sick of hearing "the future is bright"... How long until the future is the present? We're perennial future gazers.

There should be more improvement coming from the coaching side of things, at the moment the small improvement we've made is purely from improving the list.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,031]

I thought Brayshaw looked injured in the last. He couldn't run. It's hard when a first year player is fast becoming our mid field gun..

Phone thumbs edit.

He jogged past me when he was on the bench about halfway through the last. He looked exhausted.

[Coq au vin 754]

Chook the thing that killed us again today was the number of clean defensive marks taken by the Saints in our forward 50. It killed us last week and again this week. From where I was watching I saw Garlett nearby ready to pounce on a spilled ball but they aren't happening enough on top of a side that barely equals the oppositions inside 50 count in a game. Is this where Dawes can add some value in just getting to marking contests and brining it down for at least a 50/50. Our defensive efforts inside our own 50 are putrid. Unless it goes straight to Hogan we struggle.

If you put brine on a football does it go putrid (putrefy)?

[monoccular 16,042]

Roos has shown that he can bring a very good side to a premiership, but he has not shown that he has the ability to get a very ordinary side to think like a top team.

When you hit the front, unexpectedly, with 40 seconds to go, the coach should not need to send an instruction to flood the back line : he should have made that very clear time and time again in advance, and it should just happen.

Dumb footballers with poor on field leadership.

[olisik 4,060]

Time to revive the Priority Pick 2015 thread. Potentially 4 wins or less again....how many years in a row would that make it

[Binmans PA 25,993]

Riley is done for mine. I'd venture as far as saying Matt Jones offers more across four quarters. Neither should be at the club next year.

[Fork 'em 6,507]

He jogged past me when he was on the bench about halfway through the last. He looked exhausted.

Doesn't surprise me.

Brayshaw gives 100% every contest.

Heart, brains and skill that kid.

Got it all.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Fork 'em

[Bang Bang Bang 5,453]

Time to revive the Priority Pick 2015 thread. Potentially 4 wins or less again....how many years in a row would that make it

After the break we have West Coast (certain loss) then a stretch which includes Essendon, St.Kilda, Carlton and Brisbane all at the MCG. Barring a catastrophe we should be fielding stronger sides by then. We also have Collingwood again and the Bulldogs and Giants at Etihad. I expect us to get more than 4 wins by year's end.

[jackaub 1,402]

Time to revive the Priority Pick 2015 thread. Potentially 4 wins or less again....how many years in a row would that make it

Who are we going to beat?

[chook fowler 18,211]

This behind closed doors ? Because he seemed controlled at his presser

I thought Roos looked seriously pizzed at his presser - mind you the atmosphere wasn't helped by incredibly dumb questions from the journos

[Deeoldfart 7,720]

Yeah we lost but no need for overreacting. As long as our young core of players; brayshaw, viney, salem, hogan, Tmac, Tyson, kent, jkh, stretch, ANB, toumpas, petracca etc stick together the pain we have faced over the last 10 years may just be worth it.

Anyway can still see us winning 6-8 games this year, surely thats acceptable for a team who 2 years ago were playing some of the worst football ever played by an AFL club.

I've lost my rose-coloured glasses. Did you happen to find them, by chance?

[mrtwister 650]

A lot of our players just have really bad habits and they seem to resort back to them when under pressure. On the commentary tonight, Lynch was IN the Melbourne coaching box. He stated a few times that Roos was happy with this, unhappy with that and so on. A couple of times he mentioned that Roos was unhappy about not kicking to an option going into forward 50 and that the uncontested intercept marks were killing us. This was apparently a major focus at quarter time as well. He asked them to stop booting it in as high and far as they can and to lower their eyes and aim for a target. Then, like clockwork, they went out and kept bombing it in the forward 50.

WTF?

If Hogan didn't bail us out by getting a couple of goals from two of these rainbows, we would never have been close after quarter time.

[titan_uranus 22,287]

After the break we have West Coast (certain loss) then a stretch which includes Essendon, St.Kilda, Carlton and Brisbane all at the MCG. Barring a catastrophe we should be fielding stronger sides by then. We also have Collingwood again and the Bulldogs and Giants at Etihad. I expect us to get more than 4 wins by year's end.

After WC we have Essendon, Brisbane and St Kilda, all at the G. We have to be primed for those games, they are eminently winnable for any side in the competition, let alone us.

This board will be singing a very different tune if we can take all three and be 6-10 heading into a game against Collingwood (I'm not saying that is going to happen of course, but I have no doubt we can do it).

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

This behind closed doors ? Because he seemed controlled at his presser

He also looked shattered!

It took all his control to not say something stupid about the players again.

He and the coaches took the rap (which he should in public).

But I sure hope he burns the ears off our leadership team...everyone one of them!!!!

He gave much deserved high praise for Toumpas, Watts, Hogan and Brayshaw.