POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Chris 2,892]

Wiseblood IMO it is this simple.

The list has improved since the end of 2013

The improvement in my view can only be truly judged by wins and losses.

While the losing margins have decreased ( hawks excepted ) I take no joy in being unable to beat the likes of St Kilda.

That shows me that our improvement is only marginal in my view.

You I think see more improvement than that level.

For the better part of fifty years I have been part of the "Gee we played better this week with a little luck we would have won"

The nett result has been we have appeared in a handful of finals in fifty one years.

I no longer subscribe to that idea.

I now hope to win games like yesterday If we don't it just says to me that we are not good enough and have more work to do.

there is little consultation in losing by any amount.

If that offends people tough.

Don't think you will get anyone here saying we are good enough and that we don't have more work to do OD.

[old dee 23,492]

I have no doubt you'd be a cracker of a bloke but FFS lighten up.

I find that very difficult when we lose to the likes of St Kilda

[old dee 23,492]

Don't think you will get anyone here saying we are good enough and that we don't have more work to do OD.

I was going to reply but lets let it rest Chris i think it has all been said

[beelzebub 23,198]

Not content but certainly appreciative. The most basic thing surely is being in the game in the final quarter as opposed to out of it in the first.

ever heard......miss is as good as a mile ?

2 weeks running we lost the game. We lost it...they didn't win it.

How hard in the last minutes to man up ...to deny your opponent. Sorry, forgot it's a very complicated game !

[DemonOX 8,698]

Bucks just said on 360 that Jones was in the forward line at the last centre bounce.

Our best mid was in the forward line at the most crucial time of the game WTF!

I just hope the Tomp doesn't go into his shell cause u could see it written all over his face that he blamed himself but he was not solely to blame that's for sure.

[george_on_the_outer 7,430]

Bucks just said on 360 that Jones was in the forward line at the last centre bounce.

Our best mid was in the forward line at the most crucial time of the game WTF!

I just hope the Tomp doesn't go into his shell cause u could see it written all over his face that he blamed himself but he was not solely to blame that's for sure.

Jones was off the ground for the first half of the second quarter. He returned but then spent a good part of the remainder of the game on the HFF.

I would guess that he was/is carrying an injury which is why he wasn't in the middle at the end.

[DemonOX 8,698]

So now we have lost the last 10 games to the saints.

And this week to make it even better we r going to Geelong who we have also lost the last 10 games to by an average of 71 points. To top it off its Enrights 300. Yippee.

Something to look forward too!!

Now where did I put my slab of rum again?

FMD.

[McQueen 17,864]

I find that very difficult when we lose to the likes of St Kilda

I still think we're a considerably better team than the Saints. We have a better list with greater potential. I am confident that we will capitalise on the trade and draft periods this year and head into 2016 with the full intent of playing finals. We're much closer than you think with the players at our disposal, so many out injured, so many in the early stages of development.

I still see the positives and will not give up believing we will one day be a dominant team that is feared. Having a fit list of players and the coaching staff we currently have will result in wins and a great culture at the club. The wheels are in motion and as much as losing against a fellow bottom 4 side hurts, there is no doubt in my mind we will rise in the next few years. Having that belief is an incredibly powerful for thing.

I'm all out of wankness.

[DemonOX 8,698]

I would guess that he was/is carrying an injury which is why he wasn't in the middle at the end.

If this is right I would still like him in the middle George.

He's the captain and could have been marshalling the troops.

But it wasn't to be.

[old dee 23,492]

I still think we're a considerably better team than the Saints. We have a better list with greater potential. I am confident that we will capitalise on the trade and draft periods this year and head into 2016 with the full intent of playing finals. We're much closer than you think with the players at our disposal, so many out injured, so many in the early stages of development.

I still see the positives and will not give up believing we will one day be a dominant team that is feared. Having a fit list of players and the coaching staff we currently have will result in wins and a great culture at the club. The wheels are in motion and as much as losing against a fellow bottom 4 side hurts, there is no doubt in my mind we will rise in the next few years. Having that belief is an incredibly powerful for thing.

I'm all out of wankness.

I am happy you see that.

What is the last word I am lost?

[chook fowler 19,249]

Jones was off the ground for the first half of the second quarter. He returned but then spent a good part of the remainder of the game on the HFF.

I would guess that he was/is carrying an injury which is why he wasn't in the middle at the end.

Riewoldt was more injured but put himself in the middle of the action.

Not Jones finest moment I'm afraid

[Adam The God 29,360]

Can I just say to the parents worried about their kids following the Dees - it is the experience they have with you at the footy that determine their desire to keep watching the footy and going for the Dees. If they just see their Dad gnash teeth and get angry (and stay angry) that is what keeps them from wanting to go, or wanting to watch the Dees, not a two point loss 'Riewoldt's team'.

Some people don't like it tough either. For me, it's character building and it'll make success all the more worth it.

I was ropeable yesterday, but I'm finding following Melbourne is getting easier. Okay, so we do that to our supporters yesterday, but for the first time in years, I can clearly see the future. Hogan, Brayshaw, Viney, Salem, Tyson, Tommy Mac, Vanders, Toumpas and Watts. These guys are all young. Watts is the oldest at 24. We have Petracca waiting in the wings and some would say we could add Frost and Kent to that list. Personally, I think that's premature on those guys, but I trust the FD, particularly Roos and McCartney. So that's 12. I'm sure we'll add another two or three good players in the off season and by the time Roos leaves, Goodwin will have a really, really good young list.

[bing181 8,909]

Whatever way you want to paint it the transformation is very slow.

There is no way to defend yesterdays loss.

No-one's trying to defend a loss, we clearly didn't play well enough to win. End of.

St Kilda aren't as bad as what you're making out, far from it. They still have some solid/important players from the team that got them into the GF in 2010, that in itself is enough to make a difference, especially in a close game.

But that's not in itself the point. We were in this game, as well as the previous weeks' up until the end, and in both games, we fought our way back from being 5+ goals down to be in front - something we could never do in the past. Just look at the Collingwood game - we managed 3 goals in 2014, but 13 last week.

And you can't see the improvement?

Thompson remarked in the commentary on Sunday about the progress at Geelong when he was building: at first, you try and get it to work for a quarter, and then a half, then 3 quarters, and eventually for a whole match. Our problem is not that we're not a good team, or can't play well, it's that we can't always do that for 120 minutes. Both against Collingwood and St Kilda, there were longish passages in the game when we were clearly on top, with some exhilarating play from the whole team. That never/rarely happened over the past few years, yet we're starting to see it more and more.

Not sure how old you are, I'm getting on myself. But as I get older, the more I realise that sometimes, things just take time, and that at the end of the day, it's what happens in the long term that counts, not what's going on over a few weeks or even a year or two.

Enjoy the ride OD, bumpy as it may be. If you can see past what's not working, there's a lot to like and to be positive about. Seriously.

[DeeSpencer 24,731]

Reading Michael Gleason's Age article about the apportion of blame and you see how many bad bounces we got but mainly the lack of leadership for several players to back themselves to win the ball and win the game.

Gawn's hitout and the clearance aside after that we had 3 or 4 chances to make a match saving play.

- Grimes sits back with his opponent instead of reading it early and (possibly) intercepting

- Lumumba's spoil is back in to the corridor

- Cross loses Lonie

- Toumpas hesitates by half a step and doesn't crunch Lonie in a tackle

- Tyson doesn't peal off his man for an intercept mark

- McDonald does take front spot on Riewoldt but the ball bounces/he fumbles and it gets over the back

We also had a bunch of strange matchups by the looks of things.

No one on the near wing as Toumpas goes with Montagna towards a HBF

Cross on Lonie (where were Jetta and Dunn?)

Tyson deep back

No sweeper from the centre bounce to cut Steven off and so shorten the inside 50 entry

[Winners at last 5,155]

Don't worry mate I've been self-medicating for years

It is so frustrating just watching them continually make the same errors. It is on the verge of insanity. How many times did Dunn take too long from the kick-in after a Saints behind, chip to himself, run to the right hand side and kick to the flank 60 metres out only to see a Saints player mark it or a Melbourne player drop the mark and the Saints pick up the crumb and send it back inside 50?

How many times do we just bomb long into the forward 50? Sometimes we did it when our forwards were leading up the ground for the pass and the only player back was a Saints player. It's like they look up, see the Saints player by himself but in their minds they've already made the decision they are going to bomb long to do it anyway and kick it straight to the opposition.\

When we do bomb it in why do we rarely kick it to the advantage of our forwards? Ok if you're going to bomb it in to a pack fine, but at least kick it to the side our players are standing on to give them the best chance to at least compete for the mark and lock the ball in or create crumbing opportunities.

How many times do we handball to a player within a metre of the player with the ball who is being worn like a glove? How many times do we handball in circles putting ourselves under pressure instead of trying to get a chip kick in to take a mark and steady ourselves?

How many times does a player run past for a handball instead of laying a shepherd to clear the way for his teammate to take a clear possession? How many times does that player then receive the handball only to run straight into an opposition player and quickly hand off again to another player under pressure until they turn it over or get tackled for a ball up?

How many times do our players compete with each other for the mark only to spoil each other or drop it only to see the opposition with a player or two down waiting for the crumbs to clear it away? It happened continually against the Pies and again yesterday against the Saints. A couple of times we had 3 or 4 players going up with only 1 or 2 Saints and the other 2 or 3 Saints players just waiting down for an easy ball. It is utter stupidity.

Gawn is almost 7 feet tall, why can't he mark?

Hogan was on fire, all they had to do was kick it to him one out and he would've kicked 10 yesterday. Even after Delaney went off we couldn't get it down there for about 15 minutes in the last quarter.

I was furious with the last 41 seconds but the entire game to that point had been so bloody frustrating, same as the week before because of the repeated idiotic decision making. Skill errors are bad but I can handle them more than making the wrong bloody decision again and again and again ad infinitum.

Dr Gonzo, I salute you!! Spot on; it is like reading something I had written myself. There can be no higher compliment!!!

[bing181 8,909]

- Grimes sits back with his opponent instead of reading it early and (possibly) intercepting

- Lumumba's spoil is back in to the corridor

- Cross loses Lonie

- Toumpas hesitates by half a step and doesn't crunch Lonie in a tackle

- Tyson doesn't peal off his man for an intercept mark

- McDonald does take front spot on Riewoldt but the ball bounces/he fumbles and it gets over the back

We also had a bunch of strange matchups by the looks of things.

No one on the near wing as Toumpas goes with Montagna towards a HBF

Cross on Lonie (where were Jetta and Dunn?)

Tyson deep back

No sweeper from the centre bounce to cut Steven off and so shorten the inside 50 entry

Good analysis/breakdown of what went on. But you've omitted (IMHO) the key Melbourne player in that passage of play - Viney. He was right amongst it, and in some ways, central to both Stevens and Montagna getting away.

Not blaming, just observing. But also, it was only one play on a day where there were quite a few that we messed up. Turnovers are killing us and undoing a lot of good work.

[McQueen 17,864]

I am happy you see that.

What is the last word I am lost?

No you're not.

[Adam The God 29,360]

That tells me that we are competitive against a fellow cellar dweller.

We ain't come very far

And this tells me that you're utterly scared by the past, OD. Do you remember what things were like when we played under Neeld? We wouldn't have got within 10 goals of St Kilda yesterday. That's where we're coming from. It's absolute BS to suggest we haven't come very far. We've still got a long way to go though.

[old dee 23,492]

No you're not.

yes I am

[McQueen 17,864]

yes I am

You're not.

[DeeSpencer 24,731]

Good analysis/breakdown of what went on. But you've omitted (IMHO) the key Melbourne player in that passage of play - Viney. He was right amongst it, and in some ways, central to both Stevens and Montagna getting away.

Not blaming, just observing. But also, it was only one play on a day where there were quite a few that we messed up. Turnovers are killing us and undoing a lot of good work.

He does appear to get a dodgy bounce at the centre stoppages so I'll forgive him for that one. Not sure how he doesn't catch Steven before he gets his 2nd possession in that chain. The camera zooms in and we lose them from the play though so possibly the mids switched men or Viney got a bumped or held behind play.

It was the lack of assertion that really shocked me and worries me about our players and the way we train and are coached especially in our backline.

Our good young players have it. Or had it when they started. Watts and Toumpas are starting to get involved in the game much more by demanding the ball and backing their skills.

Tom McDonald is a great example. He had it in spades at the start of the year. A bad quarter on Cloke seemed to effect him yesterday for parts of the game. To his credit he peeled off Riewoldt and attacked the footy. But maybe he had doubts in his mind and 2nd guessed himself and the combination with a bad bounce saw him beat by the ball.

[old dee 23,492]

No you're not.

Ok are you telling I am not happy for you?

Or I am a [censored] er?

Or both?

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

Please stop using 2013 as the benchmark for improvement, any group of players or coaching staff could show improvement from that. please set a slightly higher standard to show improvement.

[Demon Dynasty 17,092]

We are also better than Brisbane, and our results are massively improved. Save for a big loss here and there we are in games longer, and have a chance to win many. 2013 we got spanked from pillar to post week in week out.

Our results in terms of wins may not have increased markedly but our competitiveness is massively higher.

People seem to not realise just how bad we were.

We are only better than Brisbane if we beat them in a few weeks time Chris. Until then we are worse than the Saints (until we meet them at the G) and possibly better than the Lions. Maybe better than the Blues. But again we won't know until we play them as well.

Until we start winning games we should be winning we are effectively going nowhere as a club, no matter how warm and fuzzy some of us supporters might feel about signs of "progress". Progress is just a nice word that easily rolls off the tongue until you start winning games against clubs ranked within reach of where you are at or lower.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

As disappointed as the last 40 sec were yesterday I noted the following points9 players in our side have played less than 50 games4 of those are in their first year.St Kilda are the best side for pressure on opposition (Ranked 1st in the league)and we matched them in pressure actsLast year and the one before when we were 4 goals down in the 2nd quarter that would have been the game and a loss by 6 or moreLast year and the one before we would not have hit the front in the last after struggling all quarter.Tyson has played 42 games and coming back from injury (Get off his back)I don't think you could fault the players desire which we have in the pastYep....Players made mistakes as ALL players do.....Yep it's frustrating watching from an elevated position when you can see loose players but the players at ground level can't.It's not all doom and gloom....I think it is starting to come together.Any player that pulls on our jumper does not deserve to be called a spud, please find another name to prove your superiority.Anyway just my view on things as they stand.

love this post. I was as upset as any passionate fan was when Montagna waltzed into that goal square. I punched and kicked the fridge and screamed at that moment. If I wasn't on medication I would have had a massive scotch to regain the equilibrium.Oh , and the medication is not for what you think. Positivity is what we need most now and support for the club. No amount of bitching and whining by demon landers will make the slightest difference. Damn it , I'm only interested in the positives and looking forward to Roos and co turning more of our young men into proper AFL players. Nil bastardo carborundum !!!!!!!