Paul Roos - don't give us more excuses!

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,205]

With all this pessimisim about I thought I'd put things in perspective. I had a look at the difficulty of each side in the bottom 5's draw over the first 9 rounds. I ranked each team based on ladder position as at the end of the regular season in 2014- 1st is 18 points down to 18th getting 1 point.

Results are as follows:

14- St Kilda 3 wins / 6 losses / 82% / Draw difficulty: 63

15- Melbourne 3 wins / 6 losses / 72% / Draw difficulty: 99

16- Brisbane 2 wins / 7 losses / 67% / Draw difficulty: 82

17- Gold Coast 1 win / 8 losses / 67% / Draw Difficulty: 70

18- Carlton 1 win / 8 losses / 63% / Draw difficulty: 83

As you can see we have easily had the toughest draw with the Saints having a very easy draw to start the season. Hopefully this relieves some of your stress knowing we are definitely on the right track. I'm predicting 7 wins for the seasons.

[nutbean 8,838]

GWS don't seem to have that problem. They are young. Their leaders are clearly better than ours - Ward, Mumford, Davis and even Shaw...

That is part of the solution - bringing in players from the outside. But this further illustrates my point. GWS youngster obviously have more intestinal fortitude that many of our mob. Although they are still rollercoastering a bit.

I have suggested that some players are scarred from the past - but not all. Therefore I stress again - the scars of the past are not an excuse for a player, they are an indictment on players that they lack mental toughness to not only move past what has transpired in the past but also perform at consistent level irrespective of the opposition or the scoreboard.

I will point to a retired player - your namesake - James McDonald - never a world beater - but winning or losing his output was consistent. Whether he was playing against a top of the ladder team or a cellar dweller. Even when we were 10 goals down he would still have a dip.

With lack of respect to most on our list - the only player who you can say has experienced the lows but still continues to have a dip irrespective of the opposition or the scoreboard is Nat Jones.

[jackaub 1,402]

This current group of players who should be leading have never been called out. They have been handled softly softly just like the gold coast and when they ae asked to make the jump to AFL excellence thay lack the tools mentally and emotionally to do it. We have to be carefull that the newbies are not infected

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Why?

Where do I start?!

Perhaps I'll just leave it to the fact that virtually all players and coaches I've heard speak of him rate him incredibly highly.

He is competent, articulate and oozes class as a coach.

[Lucifers Hero 40,315]

http://www.sen.com.au/news/06-15/david-king-why-is-roos-still-taking-about-past

Remember he and PJ made a pact preseason to not refer to the past again.

So this was a very deliberate reference to the past by Roos.

Why? To soften up players and supporters for the mother of all list culls.

A cull not just of NQR's but also some fan favourites.

This year trade/draft/list changes will be the last in which Roos is involved.

He will be the 'bad cop' and clean up the list.

Goodwin will have a big say but it will be Roos that swings the axe and takes the wrap.

Goodwin can then be the 'good cop' when he takes over late 2016.

We have some decent talent, albeit not enough. More will come.

But it is the unselfish players with 120 min committment in each game that we need.

Those that can't/won't with the wrong attitude will be the first to go.

This fan is softened up enough and had enough that if my favourites go, so be it!

[jnrmac 20,154]

I just watched the 360 from this week. That was really quite an embarrassment seeing Roosy field the tough questions. Clearly he's not letting on what the real issue is because the truth would probably be devastating for many supporters.....our experienced players are not up to it. The clean out that's coming at the end of this season will be breathtaking.

Nah it won't because you can't do it. At best you can turn over 10-13 players which is effectively what we have been doing. And you can't clean out all the senior players or you end up with a Neeld like team.

[jnrmac 20,154]

That is part of the solution - bringing in players from the outside. But this further illustrates my point. GWS youngster obviously have more intestinal fortitude that many of our mob. Although they are still rollercoastering a bit.

I have suggested that some players are scarred from the past - but not all. Therefore I stress again - the scars of the past are not an excuse for a player, they are an indictment on players that they lack mental toughness to not only move past what has transpired in the past but also perform at consistent level irrespective of the opposition or the scoreboard.

I will point to a retired player - your namesake - James McDonald - never a world beater - but winning or losing his output was consistent. Whether he was playing against a top of the ladder team or a cellar dweller. Even when we were 10 goals down he would still have a dip.

With lack of respect to most on our list - the only player who you can say has experienced the lows but still continues to have a dip irrespective of the opposition or the scoreboard is Nat Jones.

This is the nub of it.

[stuie 7,374]

With all this pessimisim about I thought I'd put things in perspective. I had a look at the difficulty of each side in the bottom 5's draw over the first 9 rounds. I ranked each team based on ladder position as at the end of the regular season in 2014- 1st is 18 points down to 18th getting 1 point.

Results are as follows:

14- St Kilda 3 wins / 6 losses / 82% / Draw difficulty: 63

15- Melbourne 3 wins / 6 losses / 72% / Draw difficulty: 99

16- Brisbane 2 wins / 7 losses / 67% / Draw difficulty: 82

17- Gold Coast 1 win / 8 losses / 67% / Draw Difficulty: 70

18- Carlton 1 win / 8 losses / 63% / Draw difficulty: 83

As you can see we have easily had the toughest draw with the Saints having a very easy draw to start the season. Hopefully this relieves some of your stress knowing we are definitely on the right track. I'm predicting 7 wins for the seasons.

I think it's a cop out to focus on who we've played, when our problem is how we've played. It's too simplistic to say "oh we've played against good teams" etc, when there are clearly problems with our leadership, our match day coaching reaction time, and our implementing of the game plan.

It's not just about the win/loss ratio, it's also about how we've lost and how we've won (think of the Bailey era), and at the moment we fold at the first sign of real pressure and our leaders disappear.

Edited June 4, 2015 by stuie

[leucopogon 1,519]

Nah it won't because you can't do it. At best you can turn over 10-13 players which is effectively what we have been doing. And you can't clean out all the senior players or you end up with a Neeld like team.

Nah it won't because you can't do it. At best you can turn over 10-13 players which is effectively what we have been doing. And you can't clean out all the senior players or you end up with a Neeld like team.

I don't mean breathtaking in terms of numbers but in terms of names, although it seems most demonlanders are prepared for what's coming.

I won't be surprised to see the following names on the trade table

Watts, Dunn, grimes, Pedersen, Kent, Toumpas, Howe, Trengove, Dawes, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick, heck even Nathan Jones if it means tying up a paddy Dangerfield.

Delistings/free agency: Garland, Bail, Michie, Matt Jones, Jamar, Terlich, Harmes, probably some others I've forgotten.

The only untouchables for mine are Hogan, TMac, Gus, Salem, vanders, Garlett, Petracca, and the other up and comers from the last two drafts.

We need to prepare for a clean out of mega proportions.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

I don't mean breathtaking in terms of numbers but in terms of names, although it seems most demonlanders are prepared for what's coming.

I won't be surprised to see the following names on the trade table

Watts, Dunn, grimes, Pedersen, Kent, Toumpas, Howe, Trengove, Dawes, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick, heck even Nathan Jones if it means tying up a paddy Dangerfield.

Delistings/free agency: Garland, Bail, Michie, Matt Jones, Jamar, Terlich, Harmes, probably some others I've forgotten.

The only untouchables for mine are Hogan, TMac, Gus, Salem, vanders, Garlett, Petracca, and the other up and comers from the last two drafts.

We need to prepare for a clean out of mega proportions.

Agree with all the above..

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,205]

I think it's a cop out to focus on who we've played, when our problem is how we've played. It's too simplistic to say "oh we've played against good teams" etc, when there are clearly problems with our leadership, our match day coaching reaction time, and our implementing of the game plan.

It's not just about the win/loss ratio, it's also about how we've lost and how we've won (think of the Bailey era), and at the moment we fold at the first sign of real pressure and our leaders disappear.

I agree. But the other side of the coin is that we are literally coming from nowhere. We were so ridiculously bad under Neeld it is amazing an AFL club could get to that position. What the stats do show is that we are more than competitive in a number of games, but yes we have had some really poor games against the best sides which we need to change. But I read people saying that the Saints have gone past us etc. when actually we will likely finish higher than them by the end of this season.

We definitely need to continue to move on certain players but we also have to be careful we don't get to the point where we have only young kids. More smart drafting and trading will be needed for us to become more competitive.

[stuie 7,374]

I agree. But the other side of the coin is that we are literally coming from nowhere. We were so ridiculously bad under Neeld it is amazing an AFL club could get to that position. What the stats do show is that we are more than competitive in a number of games, but yes we have had some really poor games against the best sides which we need to change. But I read people saying that the Saints have gone past us etc. when actually we will likely finish higher than them by the end of this season.

We definitely need to continue to move on certain players but we also have to be careful we don't get to the point where we have only young kids. More smart drafting and trading will be needed for us to become more competitive.

To be honest, as it currently stands I'm pretty disappointed with the amount of improvement under Roos. Sure there's been very slight improvement, but I feel that has come from the slight improvement of our list rather than the coaching side of things.

[poita 3,902]

What the stats do show is that we are more than competitive in a number of games, but yes we have had some really poor games against the best sides which we need to change.

We've been competitive in the three games we've won, and for a quarter or so in the three losses to Adelaide, Port & GWS, none of which is better than a middle of the ladder side at present.

We were close enough to totally uncompetitive in the losses to the three elite sides, but for a few cheap goals late against Sydney.

I don't see how anyone can justify what was served up for two and half quarters against GWS & Port, particularly given that we were well in front in both games.

I agree with Stuie - any improvement has come from players we have bought into the club. There has been very little, if any, improvement from players who were here already.

I'm yet to be convinced that Mark Neeld wouldn't have coached this team to a 7 - 24 record with the same players, and he was an epic failure.

Edited June 5, 2015 by poita

[old dee 23,870]

To be honest, as it currently stands I'm pretty disappointed with the amount of improvement under Roos. Sure there's been very slight improvement, but I feel that has come from the slight improvement of our list rather than the coaching side of things.

First you have to improve the playing list.

JC could not have made the 2014 list win more than four games.

He would still be struggling with the current list.

Hopefully this time next year with another 7-8 changes the list will be able to win 50% of our games.

[stuie 7,374]

First you have to improve the playing list.

JC could not have made the 2014 list win more than four games.

He would still be struggling with the current list.

Hopefully this time next year with another 7-8 changes the list will be able to win 50% of our games.

I get that. But what I'm saying is this...

Say we've improved by 10% (just to put a number to it for arguments sake). I feel that 9.9% of that improvement has come from just improving our list, and not from the coaching aspect. My expectation would be that we would have improved by say 20%, with 10% improvement coming from the list, and 10% improvement coming from the coaching.

Hopefully that explains what I'm getting at a bit better.

[Seraph 1,824]

I won't be surprised to see the following names on the trade table

Watts, Dunn, grimes, Pedersen, Kent, Toumpas, Howe, Trengove, Dawes, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick, heck even Nathan Jones if it means tying up a paddy Dangerfield.

I can't see Kent being traded.

No issues with anyone else on the list, other than Jones of course.

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,205]

I get that. But what I'm saying is this...

Say we've improved by 10% (just to put a number to it for arguments sake). I feel that 9.9% of that improvement has come from just improving our list, and not from the coaching aspect. My expectation would be that we would have improved by say 20%, with 10% improvement coming from the list, and 10% improvement coming from the coaching.

Hopefully that explains what I'm getting at a bit better.

Ok, but say we kept Neeld would we have attracted those players? And who is to say the improvement hasn't come from coaching.

I am definitely not happy with some of the performances but there is definite improvement from 2 years ago. Another factor I think that hasn't been touched on is the fact that this season we are trying to be a lot more attacking, whereas last season we were completely defensive. I think this has contributed to our wins being quite comprehensive (GC- 25 points, Tigers- 32 and Dogs- 39), but has also contributed to a few beltings. Last season we pretty much fell over the line in our 4 wins, this year we have comprehensively beaten sides.

[stuie 7,374]

Ok, but say we kept Neeld would we have attracted those players? And who is to say the improvement hasn't come from coaching.

I am definitely not happy with some of the performances but there is definite improvement from 2 years ago. Another factor I think that hasn't been touched on is the fact that this season we are trying to be a lot more attacking, whereas last season we were completely defensive. I think this has contributed to our wins being quite comprehensive (GC- 25 points, Tigers- 32 and Dogs- 39), but has also contributed to a few beltings. Last season we pretty much fell over the line in our 4 wins, this year we have comprehensively beaten sides.

This year we have been comprehensively beaten too. We spent a year working on defence only for it to all go out the window once we try to work on attack.

Roos is now 18 months into coaching us and I'm still underwhelmed. Things can turn around, but they will need to do so and stay so for a change.

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,205]

This year we have been comprehensively beaten too. We spent a year working on defence only for it to all go out the window once we try to work on attack.

Roos is now 18 months into coaching us and I'm still underwhelmed. Things can turn around, but they will need to do so and stay so for a change.

I think it's a teething issue. Try and attack more and the defence drops, try and defend more and the attack level drops. Some games we get it right and we have won those games.

Again, I'm not happy with where we are at as a club but it's definitely not Roos' doing and PR and PJ have definitely improved the club in more ways than one.

[stuie 7,374]

I think it's a teething issue. Try and attack more and the defence drops, try and defend more and the attack level drops. Some games we get it right and we have won those games.

Again, I'm not happy with where we are at as a club but it's definitely not Roos' doing and PR and PJ have definitely improved the club in more ways than one.

Wouldn't put PR and PJ in the same basket, completely different roles.

PJ has smashed it out of the park, Roos seems to be struggling to make as much of an impact as what we need. Plenty of other teams have been able to improve at a faster rate without turning over as much of their list so quickly.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

Wouldn't put PR and PJ in the same basket, completely different roles.

PJ has smashed it out of the park, Roos seems to be struggling to make as much of an impact as what we need. Plenty of other teams have been able to improve at a faster rate without turning over as much of their list so quickly.

Can you name a list that was as poorly managed and as weak as ours that on was 2 wins and with a percentage 55% that improved quicker than we have in an 18 month period???

[DeeZee 7,445]

Kent is best 22

Salem is best 22

JKH is best 22

Tyson is best 22

Dawes when fit is best 22

Petracca will be best 22 when he comes in

Trengove is worth another shot.

Matt Jones , Mckenzie , Jamar and Bail, possibly Michie have their papers stamped already.

The hard calls are Watts, Howe and Grimes, who typify our problems with lack of leadership and consistency.

One or all may be traded end of year if they don't show some real grit.

I get the feeling that the next four weeks will make or break careers.

[old dee 23,870]

Can you name a list that was as poorly managed and as weak as ours that on was 2 wins and with a percentage 55% that improved quicker than we have in an 18 month period???

Spot on TK

Everyone seems to forget how bad the list was at the end of 2013.

We would have struggle to win the VFL flag.

It is only two trading periods past that point

IMO we still have 12 -14 changes to go before we are a middle rung team.

[hemingway 7,630]

Kent is best 22

Salem is best 22

JKH is best 22

Tyson is best 22

Dawes when fit is best 22

Petracca will be best 22 when he comes in

Trengove is worth another shot.

Matt Jones , Mckenzie , Jamar and Bail, possibly Michie have their papers stamped already.

The hard calls are Watts, Howe and Grimes, who typify our problems with lack of leadership and consistency.

One or all may be traded end of year if they don't show some real grit.

I get the feeling that the next four weeks will make or break careers.

Roos has already said that there are players playing for their careers or a place on our list second half of season.

[old dee 23,870]

Kent is best 22

Salem is best 22

JKH is best 22

Tyson is best 22

Dawes when fit is best 22

Petracca will be best 22 when he comes in

Trengove is worth another shot.

Matt Jones , Mckenzie , Jamar and Bail, possibly Michie have their papers stamped already.

The hard calls are Watts, Howe and Grimes, who typify our problems with lack of leadership and consistency.

One or all may be traded end of year if they don't show some real grit.

I get the feeling that the next four weeks will make or break careers.

DeeZee you have IMO listed our problem. With very few injuries we show signs of definite improvement.

But once the injury list rises past 3-4 we struggle because we have no depth.

Dawes is not best 22 any more that is a good sign I believe.