Training - Monday, 2nd February, 2015

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Preseason training also allows you to compare the skills of players on our list, hence my question regarding where Saty saw the many mid range mids we have.

ATM Saty rates McKenzie higher than some. If he can't retain that rating in games he won't play.

Exactly right, but to first get the games, you have to be at the top of the pile during pre season

[tappysquads 618]

Exactly right, but to first get the games, you have to be at the top of the pile during pre season

I'd love to be at the training session where roos tells Viney that Mckenzie is currently going to take his spot in the 22 for round one like u currently suggest. I would back Viney to outplay Mckenzie 95% of the time in any aspect of football....... Blind folded

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I appreciate TDI's training reports and admire his positive outlook, but some people think that the likes of Bail, McKenzie and Matt Jones, all well into their 20's, magically become good kicks in the pre-season. They see them hit targets on the training track under no pressure in January and February and think this will translate into games.

Just take it with a grain of salt because you know that once the real stuff starts Grimes will be putting them out on the full, Bail will miss plenty he should kick, McKenzie will shank it from 15 meters out and Matt Jones will kick the ball at peoples feet.

Aside from Hogan, it will be the development of Toumpas, Salem, Kent, Petracca, JKH, Newton etc that determines how many games we can win this year. If these young blokes that can kick can push McKenzie, Matt Jones, Bail, Grimes and eventually Cross out of the side we will improve.

Yes but most of those have not been to training, and just write off a player on the past, Nev Jetta/Dunn/Pedersen being the perfect examples in the last couple of years, I can't wait for the humble pie posts when one of the above surprises

And to give another example Newton had an off day today, don't know what the problem was, he was horrible, helicopter handballs, missed kicks etc

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Exactly right, but to first get the games, you have to be at the top of the pile during pre season

I'd love to be at the training session where roos tells Viney that Mckenzie is currently going to take his spot in the 22 for round one like u currently suggest. I would back Viney to outplay Mckenzie 95% of the time in any aspect of football....... Blind folded

Viney was another one who had an off day today actually, hence he wasn't in my list, he was ok

[old dee 23,013]

Yes but most of those have not been to training, and just write off a player on the past, Nev Jetta/Dunn/Pedersen being the perfect examples in the last couple of years, I can't wait for the humble pie posts when one of the above surprises

And to give another example Newton had an off day today, don't know what the problem was, he was horrible, helicopter handballs, missed kicks etc

IMO Saty these guys were always better than average kicks their kicking was not the thing that changed in 2014.

I have seldom seen players in their twenties go from poor kicks to good kicks.

Again IMO the best you can hope for with players who are poor kicks is to get them to kick to their ability.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Yes but most of those have not been to training, and just write off a player on the past, Nev Jetta/Dunn/Pedersen being the perfect examples in the last couple of years, I can't wait for the humble pie posts when one of the above surprises

I have a feeling it could be more than 1 of those 3 that surprises. McKenzie's bad disposal is the biggest exaggeration on demonland. He is no Salem but he is no Godfrey either. He did one of the worst kicks of all time last year but he also set up the goal that won us the game against Essendon with pin point disposal under immense pressure. That was no fluke.

[tappysquads 618]

IMO Saty these guys were always better than average kicks their kicking was not the thing that changed in 2014.

I have seldom seen players in their twenties go from poor kicks to good kicks.

Again IMO the best you can hope for with players who are poor kicks is to get them to kick to their ability.

Plus the older you get, niggles and long term injuries can break down or alter your technique, so more often than not it goes the other way and skills fade

[DeeSpencer 23,508]

Yes but most of those have not been to training, and just write off a player on the past, Nev Jetta/Dunn/Pedersen being the perfect examples in the last couple of years, I can't wait for the humble pie posts when one of the above surprises

And to give another example Newton had an off day today, don't know what the problem was, he was horrible, helicopter handballs, missed kicks etc

We don't need to dedicate an entire new thread to you Saty. But the above post is what annoys many.

Jetta, Dunn and Pedersen all had very good years in 2014. But Strauss, Blease, Tapscott, Nicholson etc etc didn't and hence were delisted.

You find room to love all our players and then seem to gloat when a battler turns their career around. Most of us pick our favourites which is human nature and then have less faith in other players and will be right about some and wrong about others.

Anyway I'm hardly surprised that some of our lesser skilled players are training hard and training well. That's what they need to do to stay on the list. I'm glad we don't have anyone of Pedersen 2013 level - out of shape, average skilled and not putting in.

On the individual players- Matt Jones has shown since the start he has a natural ability to link up very well. His kicking is his major weakness, but he can also improve his strength, tackling, inside game and defensive work rate if he does all of that he'll be a better player even if he isn't a good kick. I'm glad he's training well and he'll set the standard for younger and better kicking midfielders to clear.

McKenzie is probably only going to be a tagger. But if Cross isn't right then he's right in line to play on Ablett in round 1 and Roos might look to go defensive in round 1 and include them both.

I think Steve Jordan got caught up in your posts like your were saying a guy is locked in for round 1. With fit and able competition the good trainers will really be pressing for NAB challenge starts in a month time. Everyone's welcome to speculate on their teams but at the same time I'm sure no one will compare players purely on training form when games will be available soon!

[Don24 103]

Yes I understand what you are saying, but Nicholson is no longer on the list, because he couldn't lift his ceiling.

What I am trying to impart is some of the players such as Matt Jones, Jordie McKenzie and Jack Grimes have visibly lifted their skill levels in certain areas, they had to, otherwise they won't get games and it would be bye bye at seasons end

Yes they will still have to produce what they are producing on the training track on game day, but as I said in Friday's report, I am more optimistic because I am seeing the skills improve

We even had Jake Spencer take a nice grab today just on the edge of the 50, he actually outsmarted Sam Frost to take it uncontested, go back and nail an excellent set shot for a goal, which was applauded by everybody.

Roos is slowly but surely instilling the confidence that has been sadly lacking in the past, I like the way he is coaching, he is keeping it very simple, if you do the right simple thing, you are praised, if you don't do it you get a very public spray

Lets remember that every year we look good in pre season. Big difference executing good skills at training compared to a game so not really interested in hearing how Grimes and McKenzie's kicking skills are at training. Lets see them in a real game for 4 points.

McKenzie and Matt Jones will be depth players should we have injuries but neither should be in our best 22. We need better ball users. Should be an interesting team selection if all are fit. Watts is a certainty for round 1 if fit.

[old dee 23,013]

I have a feeling it could be more than 1 of those 3 that surprises. McKenzie's bad disposal is the biggest exaggeration on demonland. He is no Salem but he is no Godfrey either. He did one of the worst kicks of all time last year but he also set up the goal that won us the game against Essendon with pin point disposal under immense pressure. That was no fluke.

The pessimist in me says it was

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Lets remember that every year we look good in pre season. Big difference executing good skills at training compared to a game so not really interested in hearing how Grimes and McKenzie's kicking skills are at training. Lets see them in a real game for 4 points.

McKenzie and Matt Jones will be depth players should we have injuries but neither should be in our best 22. We need better ball users. Should be an interesting team selection if all are fit. Watts is a certainty for round 1 if fit.

Seems like a good reason not to read training threads. And yet you do.

[FarNorthernD 5,848]

Yes I understand what you are saying.....

What I am trying to impart is some of the players such as Matt Jones, Jordie McKenzie and Jack Grimes have visibly lifted their skill levels in certain areas, they had to, otherwise they won't get games and it would be bye bye at seasons end

We even had Jake Spencer take a nice grab today just on the edge of the 50, he actually outsmarted Sam Frost to take it uncontested, go back and nail an excellent set shot for a goal, which was applauded by everybody.

Roos is slowly but surely instilling the confidence that has been sadly lacking in the past, I like the way he is coaching, he is keeping it very simple, if you do the right simple thing, you are praised, if you don't do it you get a very public spray

How has anyone else not commented on this? Jake Spencer kicked truly.......from on the edge of the 50.

When Roos comes up for Sainthood I'm almost certain this will be offered up as his first miracle

[nutbean 8,837]

I have a feeling it could be more than 1 of those 3 that surprises. McKenzie's bad disposal is the biggest exaggeration on demonland. He is no Salem but he is no Godfrey either. He did one of the worst kicks of all time last year but he also set up the goal that won us the game against Essendon with pin point disposal under immense pressure. That was no fluke.

And how did he help set up the goal ? With handball. To my mind Jordie's problem has not been that he handballs too much or that he fluffs some kicks. My issue is he has not involved himself on the outside or put himself forward as an option. I think his opponents know that he will tag them but will not run off them the other way so they don't pay a great deal of attention to him when we have the ball in hand. It does not surprise me Roos is making him play outside linking up as that to my mind is the major weakness in his game.

Saty said last year on asking McKenzie what he need to do to get a regular game - "kick more goals" - I just think he needs to get himself a lot more involved.

( that's not to say he doesn't need to lift his skills by foot because if you only handpass you become predictable - but I would still have Jodie h/ball more than kick - he is just better at it )

[T-34 409]

All these blokes can kick, up until recently their team mates gave them little to kick to as they did not work hard enough to make position, or create space.

If this can be turned around those who have been pilloried for their poor disposal may well surprise.

Much of our poor disposal is due to lack of viable options and team mates poor work rate than straight out sub standard skill.

We also have more than our fair share of poor decision makers when under pressure.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

All these blokes can kick, up until recently their team mates gave them little to kick to as they did not work hard enough to make position, or create space.

If this can be turned around those who have been pilloried for their poor disposal may well surprise.

Much of our poor disposal is due to lack of viable options and team mates poor work rate than straight out sub standard skill.

We also have more than our fair share of poor decision makers when under pressure.

I agree completely as said something similiar recently.

Although I do think that many players still need to work on their kicking (especially when not under pressure).

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Everybody that is writing off McKenzie for one missed kick at goal is being stupid.

Aaron Davey missed from the goal square twice in his career and didn't cop it like this.

[The Reverend 1,718]

The pessimist in me says it was

I think you are in the pessimist. Get out of there.

[hemingway 7,608]

good to read the training reports and varied opinions without the nitpicking and personal asides. Makes this site so much better to read. Thought I was died in the wool and informed but the folks on this site are incredible....or seriously unbalanced sick individuals who need to get a life.

[old dee 23,013]

Everybody that is writing off McKenzie for one missed kick at goal is being stupid.

Aaron Davey missed from the goal square twice in his career and didn't cop it like this.

I don't believe you have seen him much BS if you think the criticism is based on one missed goal.

[daisycutter 28,700]

good to read the training reports and varied opinions without the nitpicking and personal asides. Makes this site so much better to read. Thought I was died in the wool and informed but the folks on this site are incredible....or seriously unbalanced sick individuals who need to get a life.

nailed it beautifully the second time. hemo

[Brayshaw Self 847]

I don't believe you have seen him much BS if you think the criticism is based on one missed goal.

In recent threads the anecdote has been brought up again and again.

He is no world-beater and his kicking is below average.

[Maggot 1977 263]

I agree completely as said something similiar recently.

Although I do think that many players still need to work on their kicking (especially when not under pressure).

Does this include a set shot from just outside the goal square ?

[old dee 23,013]

In recent threads the anecdote has been brought up again and again.

He is no world-beater and his kicking is below average.

We are in total agreement

Edited February 2, 2015 by old dee

[Moonshadow 16,411]

Spencil is nailing goals, Jordie is in the best 22, Fitzy's pinpointing passes and Matt Jones is kicking truly. Woweee! They're training the house down. Round 1 can't come quick enough!

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

This is what is wrong with this site, and why a lot don't post, I was asked, because I have attended every training session as to who I thought was training well, I named a 22 and tried to justify why I had picked them, rather than debate, which I will do, we have a few posters (some who have never seen a training session) who either get personal or just go on last year or the year before and repeat the same old boring mantra

I am fully aware of players weaknesses, I for one from the pre season on last year kept informing that Blease still wasn't getting the bit about defence, I got howled down about that as well, yet I was proved right

All these blokes can kick, up until recently their team mates gave them little to kick to as they did not work hard enough to make position, or create space.

If this can be turned around those who have been pilloried for their poor disposal may well surprise.

Much of our poor disposal is due to lack of viable options and team mates poor work rate than straight out sub standard skill.

We also have more than our fair share of poor decision makers when under pressure.

Thank you, this is the bit I am trying to get across, some do not want to listen

Edited February 2, 2015 by The Devil Inside