Talking Point: An uncompromised fixture

[Whispering_Jack 29,203]

There's been a lot of talk over the years about the need for an uncompromised draft but not so much about the AFL fixture which is comprised on a number of levels -

■ the stronger teams get the better draws from a commercial perspective: blockbusters, Friday night and special games whilst avoiding the poorer drawing times and venues;

■ the fixture is drawn so that the top teams from the year before play each other more often and similarly with the weaker sides. This often results in teams having a more favourable draw from the point of view of them being competitive in the finals fight but it also gives the stronger teams a further commercial advantage.

■ AFL teams play all of the other teams once and five teams twice during a season, leaving more room for compromised fixtures.

My question is whether it's better for us at our stage of development to have a better fixture to help us be more competitive or whether we need a fixture to improve our financial outcome at the end of the year?

[jazza 1,323]

There's been a lot of talk over the years about the need for an uncompromised draft but not so much about the AFL fixture which is comprised on a number of levels -

■ the stronger teams get the better draws from a commercial perspective: blockbusters, Friday night and special games whilst avoiding the poorer drawing times and venues;

We should do a North of the eighties/90s and take 9 monday night games.

The afl want it and the last club to do it recieved a bonanza in credits.

■ the fixture is drawn so that the top teams from the year before play each other more often and similarly with the weaker sides. This often results in teams having a more favourable draw from the point of view of them being competitive in the finals fight but it also gives the stronger teams a further commercial advantage.

The only fair draw is 17 games and reversed every year. Macca actually hinted at liking this.

■ AFL teams play all of the other teams once and five teams twice during a season, leaving more room for compromised fixtures.

Probably sounds good, but could lead to totally unfair draw for somebody.And we already have that.

My question is whether it's better for us at our stage of development to have a better fixture to help us be more competitive or whether we need a fixture to improve our financial outcome at the end of the year?

We need to consolidate onfield first. So a better fixture is always the aim.,

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I just wish we had more Saturday afternoon games, for no other reason than I enjoy that time slot the most.

We need to be interesting to watch before we get the blockbusters. I don't really have an issue with that.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,215]

The only fair draw for mine is -

Year 1 - play all teams once, then play 1-5 a second time.

Year 2 - play all teams once , then play 6-10 a second time.

Year 3 - " ", then play 11-15 a second time.

Year 4 - " ", then 16,17, 1, 2 , 3 a second time.

And so on. It constantly evolves.

1 being Adelaide and 17 being the Eagles, not ladder positions.

This purely dictates how many times teams play each other in any given year. This doesn't have to dictate the order in which you play them. Armed with the knowledge that everyone plays each other once you could start by marking in Anzac Day, Queens Birthday, grand final replay then slot everything else around it.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Al's Demons

[Chook 14,998]

I'm ok with a compromised draw just as long as the unfairness is randomised. It's when the unfairness has a considered, monetary basis that my gears begin to grind.

[Redleg 40,198]

What about 1-17 play each team once and reverse home ground the next season, then split into groups of 6 and you play the other 5 in your group to make 22.

If you are say 11th at round 17, you are in group 6-12, then play others in that group to finish the season.

That would be fair.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

What about 1-17 play each team once and reverse home ground the next season, then split into groups of 6 and you play the other 5 in your group to make 22.

If you are say 11th at round 17, you are in group 6-12, then play others in that group to finish the season.

That would be fair.

In the days of Television rights I can't see the AFL having a part fixture then having a separate fixture for the last 6 games.

Clubs need time to organise interstate travel and training

I think it becomes a logistical night mare.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,215]

What about 1-17 play each team once and reverse home ground the next season, then split into groups of 6 and you play the other 5 in your group to make 22.

If you are say 11th at round 17, you are in group 6-12, then play others in that group to finish the season.

That would be fair.

I like the idea, wasn't this years draw based on that from 2013 results?

[markc 975]

sadly we will never have a even fixture now

its all about the $$$

I have always wondered what would happen to say one of the AFL preferred sides if they had a bottom clubs draw

how many teams would kill for collingwoods draw every year , what 16 plus games at MCG and so on

[CBDees 3,165]

sadly we will never have a even fixture now

its all about the $$$

I have always wondered what would happen to say one of the AFL preferred sides if they had a bottom clubs draw

how many teams would kill for collingwoods draw every year , what 16 plus games at MCG and so on

It will never happen until we again repeat the dominance we enjoyed over them of the late 1950s / early 1960s!

• Collingwood will never have an 'away jumper'
• Collingwood will never have their games scheduled for 4.40pm of a Sunday (the time they played a single game in that time slot they demanded $500K compensation)
• Collingwood will never have to play 'home games' at Etihad (instead of their spiritual home ground)
• Collingwood will always dominate in the Friday Night/Saturday afternoon time slots (we have barely played these since the Gutnik era for some reason)
• Collingwood will always have most of their games 'free-to-air' (despite rarely playing away from the "G")
• Collingwood will rarely have to travel interstate
• Collingwood will never have the indignity of seeing other teams have preferential treatment on their own traditional 'home ground' (i.e. we started life as the MCCFC)

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,215]

To be fair every nearly every Victorian club requests to play the Pies at the G even if it isn't their home ground.

[CBDees 3,165]

To be fair every nearly every Victorian club requests to play the Pies at the G even if it isn't their home ground.

And it is always granted isn't it? I only wish they would make the same request of us [and that the AFL would listen if they did]!

[Redleg 40,198]

In the days of Television rights I can't see the AFL having a part fixture then having a separate fixture for the last 6 games.

Clubs need time to organise interstate travel and training

I think it becomes a logistical night mare.

Only the last 5 games, but it doesn't have to be a separate fixture. It can be done from the preceeding years final ladder. That then gives normal times to arrange everything.

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

I don't like rolling draws. I think it will be more unfair in some ways if a top team gets lucky one year and has Melb, WB, Saints, GWS, Bris as their 5 teams to play twice and that gifts them a top 4 spot.

5 in to 18 is pretty hard, but I think they've done ok how it is now. 21 games would make it easier to just play 2 from the same group of 6 you finish in and 1 from each other group of 6.

From that point of view I'd rather play the better competitive fixture than the financial fixture.

Of course that creates the problem of whether it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and the top teams play the best financial fixtures and stay at the top and the bottom can't spin a profit and stay at the bottom. However I think GWS and Gold Coast will rise soon and throw the order out a bit. Especially if teams like North, Port, Freo, Syd, West Coast and Adelaide stay strong.

That should result in some of Richmond, Carlton, Essendon or Collingwood taking a tumble down the ladder. Whether they hit the depth of us, St Kilda and WB I'm not sure.

The competition badly needs to see big clubs at the bottom and small clubs at the top and the ladder changing it up year to year.

My biggest gripe with the fixture this year is actually the TV games scheduling. The Friday night games for Carlton, Richmond and Collingwood, all whom aren't that high on my finals list is ridiculous. Whilst North (slightly better) and Port (miles better) get little love from Friday night footy. The AFL always said win games and you'll get the exposure, but that's been shown to be a lie.

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

Only the last 5 games, but it doesn't have to be a separate fixture. It can be done from the preceeding years final ladder. That then gives normal times to arrange everything.

It limits the number of big games in the first 17 rounds as well as creating a tankapalooza in the last 5 rounds for bottom teams.

I'd rather play a mixed fixture in the last 5 rounds and have the comp close enough that a bottom side can knock off a finals contender as well as not tire out the top teams by having them play huge games every week in a short space.

It also creates a silly system where you are much better finishing 7th the year before than 6th.

I'm fine with playing all 17 teams in the first 17 games, but 6th place shouldn't have to play 1 to 5 just before finals. I like it how it is now where by 6th will play 2 other top 6 teams, 1 middle 6 team and a bottom 6 team, the issue is finding that 5th game but it can be somewhat fair. That's a fair fixture that says if you're good enough you should win plenty of the 5 teams you play twice.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,215]

And it is always granted isn't it? I only wish they would make the same request of us [and that the AFL would listen if they did]!

Yes it is always granted, but "the argument" will be in a lot of cases North, Dogs, us ect it's our highest earner for the year. As mentioned earlier we need to improve on a consistent basis before they will listen to us. Edited December 27, 2014 by Al's Demons

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,215]

I don't like rolling draws. I think it will be more unfair in some ways if a top team gets lucky one year and has Melb, WB, Saints, GWS, Bris as their 5 teams to play twice and that gifts them a top 4 spot.

5 in to 18 is pretty hard, but I think they've done ok how it is now. 21 games would make it easier to just play 2 from the same group of 6 you finish in and 1 from each other group of 6.

From that point of view I'd rather play the better competitive fixture than the financial fixture.

Of course that creates the problem of whether it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and the top teams play the best financial fixtures and stay at the top and the bottom can't spin a profit and stay at the bottom. However I think GWS and Gold Coast will rise soon and throw the order out a bit. Especially if teams like North, Port, Freo, Syd, West Coast and Adelaide stay strong.

That should result in some of Richmond, Carlton, Essendon or Collingwood taking a tumble down the ladder. Whether they hit the depth of us, St Kilda and WB I'm not sure.

The competition badly needs to see big clubs at the bottom and small clubs at the top and the ladder changing it up year to year.

My biggest gripe with the fixture this year is actually the TV games scheduling. The Friday night games for Carlton, Richmond and Collingwood, all whom aren't that high on my finals list is ridiculous. Whilst North (slightly better) and Port (miles better) get little love from Friday night footy. The AFL always said win games and you'll get the exposure, but that's been shown to be a lie.

But with the rolling draw the idea is that we're not always a penciled in win. As for ghe Friday night games I can only assume it's to do with supporter base.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,360]

I just wish we had more Saturday afternoon games, for no other reason than I enjoy that time slot the most.

We need to be interesting to watch before we get the blockbusters. I don't really have an issue with that.

Believe it or not I think we feature on Saturday arvo just as much as any other vic team.

Off memory I think we play against gc, Hawks, bombers and pies at the g on Saturday.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

Believe it or not I think we feature on Saturday arvo just as much as any other vic team.

Off memory I think we play against gc, Hawks, bombers and pies at the g on Saturday.

Yes that's true the only problem is all those games against the big Vic sides is that it's always an away game, which is not good for the books, most of our home games is on poor drawing days. Edited December 28, 2014 by not angry anymore

[jazza 1,323]

But with the rolling draw the idea is that we're not always a penciled in win. As for ghe Friday night games I can only assume it's to do with supporter base.

As written earlier.nth took friday nights when every other club refused and would only "do" afriday once a year when they played nth{under protest}.Then when it became obvious that nth were at a commercial and football advantage,Coll and other clubs wanted a slice of the pie/money.

Recently the AFL wanted a volunteer to take on mondays nights and got no takers,I personally believe by our crowds numbers and sponsorship.Monday nights at a 5 year contract would be the best commercial outcome for our club.

As with nth we would have kids at least watching our club every 2nd monday and kids only remember the wins.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,215]

As written earlier.nth took friday nights when every other club refused and would only "do" afriday once a year when they played nth{under protest}.Then when it became obvious that nth were at a commercial and football advantage,Coll and other clubs wanted a slice of the pie/money.

Recently the AFL wanted a volunteer to take on mondays nights and got no takers,I personally believe by our crowds numbers and sponsorship.Monday nights at a 5 year contract would be the best commercial outcome for our club.

As with nth we would have kids at least watching our club every 2nd monday and kids only remember the wins.

You would think clubs would have done their homework with regards to Monday nights. Sunday twilight games got low crowd numbers I could only imagine Monday nights would be worse.

[Pennant St Dee 12,666]

What about 1-17 play each team once and reverse home ground the next season, then split into groups of 6 and you play the other 5 in your group to make 22.

If you are say 11th at round 17, you are in group 6-12, then play others in that group to finish the season.

That would be fair.

What happens if only percentage seperates the teams sitting 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th on the ladder. The teams sitting 5th and 6th would have a tougher finish to the season and may end up only winning 1 more game and as a result the teams 7th and 8th could be playing sides who are not as good and win nearly all their games,

End result in effect you could have a side who was 8th have five very winnable games, winning them all and jump into the top 4 as the result of a favoured fixture.

Option 1: Just play 17 games and obviously reverse the home and away the following season

Option 2: Continue playing 22 H & A games perseason, but the fixture just continues to roll through over the years so it would put an end to the guarantee of Pies, Blues, Bombers, Tigers, Hawks and Cats playing each other twice every season and could end up with seasons where there is only 1 derby. The AFL would never go for this but it ends up over the period of time being the fairest system in a 22 game season, whilst allowing the AFL to be flexible enough with fixturing to maintain ANZAC Day, Easter Monday, Queens Birthday & Dreamtime at the G

Option 3: Contine with the current system.

[jazza 1,323]

You would think clubs would have done their homework with regards to Monday nights. Sunday twilight games got low crowd numbers I could only imagine Monday nights would be worse.

TELEVISION game.

Like the original friday night games,everybody watched because it was footy.

Monday night is boring and a 'live" game is a ratings bonanza for the telecaster,and the sponsors.

Edited December 29, 2014 by jazza

[CBDees 3,165]

You would think clubs would have done their homework with regards to Monday nights. Sunday twilight games got low crowd numbers I could only imagine Monday nights would be worse.

Frankly, I supect the reverse might be the case. 4.40pm Sunday is an absolute disaster, too late in the day to enjoy lunch at the ground and too early for dinner. I am single but it must be a nightmare for families. I am happy to give Monday night a trial, it is not as though it clashes with anything else.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,215]

Frankly, I supect the reverse might be the case. 4.40pm Sunday is an absolute disaster, too late in the day to enjoy lunch at the ground and too early for dinner. I am single but it must be a nightmare for families. I am happy to give Monday night a trial, it is not as though it clashes with anything else.

I would be happy with a trial but let's not get locked in. Maybe two games against Melbourne based clubs during school holidays.