THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[rjay 23,902]

WADA didn't come over the top in the NRL case though what makes you think they will here? Genuine question because I've seen this mentioned a few times but as a long time supporter I've been conditioned to the AFL sweeping things under the rug.

Must agree with you here, people are showing a lot of faith in WADA. I'm not so sure it's well founded faith.

[beelzebub 22,225]

WADA didn't come over the top in the NRL case though what makes you think they will here? Genuine question because I've seen this mentioned a few times but as a long time supporter I've been conditioned to the AFL sweeping things under the rug.

WADA didnt for a simple reason.. ASADA had made a bit of a meal of it all and were complicit in the delays etc. WADA were NOT happy with the level of outcome but understood their deputies were as much to blame as any and as such let it stand as determined.

In the Essendon situation no such dithering occurred. All delays are really a simple case of tactics used by the accused. This is a very different situation to Cronulla. Their's was a pizz in the ocean of naughtiness as compared the long term systemic course of perverse chemical tampering undertaken at the Hill of winds !!

WADA wont be letting this one off the hook in any shape or form.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

that would be 'Parliament' Better me than BBO who will make you snort lines...just saying ..lol

Fixed

[beelzebub 22,225]

On a reality level i find it amusing and unbelievable as to the extent of denial many an Essendon tragic are defending. Even when presented with a truckload of reason they will not believe there has been any real wrongdoing and more the point anything provable.

It also amuses me how so many just dont understand the nature of proceedings or the difference in the level of evidence and/or proof required to reach a finding , a finding by the way that only requires a comfortable satisfaction as to the events. Many of us joined the Dots a long time ago but its not that hard.

Hird is exposed to various substances as a course of his treatment for some nasty injuries.. He crosses to the Dark Side

Hird enquired ( possibly experiments ) with a number of Peptides kindly supplied by Dr Ageless.. Wasnt up to speed apparently with results and effects.. who's to know...was a bit stiff I suppose

Hird and a number of nongs self help with various 'goodies" ...Speaking of Goodies our ( now ) own Goodwin is amongst the nongs, since repentant

Hird enlists his ol' mate Charters and together with his "Weapon" solicits help and product from a wonderful human being in one Stephen Dank

In the meantime the AFL is somewhat suss and concerned about whispers and has a talk to Hirdy. Hirdy disregards everything as he knows better.

Various quantities of 'dubious' supplements are sourced and bought though amazingly no records of purchases seem to exist other than an apparent 'mistaken' invoice for something they didnt really get....no no no, no siree !!!

A program is instituted at Windy Hill. This involves the intake and/or injection of any number of questionable concoctions. Prior to this and despite being educated to the converse players sign waivers to something rather ambiguous at best and disturbingly and deliberately mischievious at worst, something called 'Thymosin"

Now this Thymosin, known to the many as "The Good Stuff" ( and fundamental to the program as alluded to by Dank ) is something that required compounding. The 'harmless" and also effectively useless ( to athletes ) version Thymosin-1 aka Thymosin Alpha or even more commonly referred to as Thymomodulin doesnt actually require compounding. You can readily source it from any number of places , just google it and it's there. Also as a point of interest it comes ready to use. NO COMPOUNDING REQUIRED.

For some odd reason the supplier apparently used by Ageless doesnt supply Thymomodulin , they deal in the 'other' stuff (s)

A very big program covering a number of 'supplements" , a large group of players over an extended period of time and lo and behold we cant find any records..!! bugger , dog must have eaten them !!

But what ever it was was safe...really

No records, no invoices ??

No conscience and no morality more like it.

There is no paper trail or anything to suggest Essendon attempted ( even as a bogus cover up ) to buy legal supplements. All dealings are with shonks who are known to deal 'the good stuff" Danks Clinic ONLY deals in the good lollies. The requirement of a Compounding Chemist points to TB-4 as Thomodulin doesnt need one ( compounding pharmacist )

Texts, interviews etc have all caught Danks out referring to TB-4

the physical changes to essendon players all suggest TB-4

Looks like, sounds like, walks like a bloody Duck

QUACK !!

[rjay 23,902]

WADA didnt for a simple reason.. ASADA had made a bit of a meal of it all and were complicit in the delays etc. WADA were NOT happy with the level of outcome but understood their deputies were as much to blame as any and as such let it stand as determined.

In the Essendon situation no such dithering occurred. All delays are really a simple case of tactics used by the accused. This is a very different situation to Cronulla. Their's was a pizz in the ocean of naughtiness as compared the long term systemic course of perverse chemical tampering undertaken at the Hill of winds !!

WADA wont be letting this one off the hook in any shape or form.

I think you are doing a reverse Essendon supporter here 'BB', I wouldn't say that ASADA have been spot on with their handling of this case either.

[beelzebub 22,225]

as a point of Interest its worth going back to the original "Notice of Charges - re EFC by the AFL": which resulted in the guilt of the mentioned for having brought the game into disrepute

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

[beelzebub 22,225]

I think you are doing a reverse Essendon supporter here 'BB', I wouldn't say that ASADA have been spot on with their handling of this case either.

What delays regarding EFC were caused by ASADA rjay ?

[old dee 22,851]

bb when this finalised in 2020 we will all have nothing to write about.

Oh I forgot I wont know what day it is and the rest of you will be still talking about the GF just won?

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

What delays regarding EFC were caused by ASADA rjay ?

I agree BB, I dont think ASADA did too much wrong in this investogation. They not have been equipt for the scale of the investigation and obvioulsy were pathfinding for much of it, but reviews by eminant lawyers and rulings by Justice Middleton suggest that very little has been done wrong. Two separate AFP enquiries have failed to identify a leak from ASADA. You could argue that obtaining signed affidavits from witnesses was an omission but they have taped interviews and trancripts and witnes statements that are all admissible. You could also argue that the matterdragged on for too long from the blackest day in sport to the issuing of the show cause but 12 months for that sort of investigastion is not uncommon and osme of that delay was caused by the defendants actions.

I think much of the negative perception of ASADA is a product of the media chasing a headline and the PR machine of Hird, Essendon and Dank feeding the media. Say it often enough and it becomes a fact.

[Melbman2 226]

Now this Thymosin, known to the many as "The Good Stuff" ( and fundamental to the program as alluded to by Dank ) is something that required compounding. The 'harmless" and also effectively useless ( to athletes ) version Thymosin-1 aka Thymosin Alpha or even more commonly referred to as Thymomodulin doesnt actually require compounding. You can readily source it from any number of places , just google it and it's there. Also as a point of interest it comes ready to use. NO COMPOUNDING REQUIRED.

That is a very interesting point and one I didn't know.

Ouch

[DemonFrog 1,347]

bb when this finalised in 2020 we will all have nothing to write about.

Oh I forgot I wont know what day it is and the rest of you will be still talking about the GF just won?

So you know who will win the GF in 2020 OD?

[deefrag 277]

BB said

No conscience and no morality more like it.

There is no paper trail or anything to suggest Essendon attempted ( even as a bogus cover up ) to buy legal supplements. All dealings are with shonks who are known to deal 'the good stuff" Danks Clinic ONLY deals in the good lollies. The requirement of a Compounding Chemist points to TB-4 as Thomodulin doesnt need one ( compounding pharmacist )

Texts, interviews etc have all caught Danks out referring to TB-4

the physical changes to essendon players all suggest TB-4

Looks like, sounds like, walks like a bloody Duck

QUACK !!

Go easy on Ducks BB . . we don't want Laurie Levy writing pro Essendon pieces in the Hun!

[Dees2014 2,377]

WADA didn't come over the top in the NRL case though what makes you think they will here? Genuine question because I've seen this mentioned a few times but as a long time supporter I've been conditioned to the AFL sweeping things under the rug.

The NRL case is quite different. It only lasted for weeks not years, it was not systematic and only covered a few players, and the evidence of what was taken was circumstantial at best. Crucially though, Cronulla fully cooperated and at the end of the day admitted guilt, as did the players.

ESSENDON and to some extent the AFL have fought this every inch of the way, admitted no guilt, but the evidence which is starting to emerge from ASADA in the latest court cases appears to be overwhelming. It was systematic, prolonged, lethal to the players involved and clearly designed to cheat.and still the players and the club admit no guilt and maintain they did nothing wrong, blame ASADA for delaying the settlement while doing everything possible to tie it up in the Courts.

If you look at WADA's international record, they do not take kindly to this sort of behaviour and have a record of winning in CAS. Hird and his cabal of sympathisers in the Australian media can grandstand as much as they like in Australia, but it will make no difference when the WADA/ASADA case eventually is presented in a Swiss court.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I think you are doing a reverse Essendon supporter here 'BB', I wouldn't say that ASADA have been spot on with their handling of this case either.

Let's see what they present in Court. Even what we have seen so far suggests they (ASADA) have a lot more than they have let on so far. They are playing their cards close to their chest. It is interesting when independent Judges have examined all the ASADA evidence, they have all recommended the process proceeds. Even when the new Abbott government came into office saying they wanted the case to be closed as soon as possible, their own judge appointed to review the ASADA evidence enthusiastically endorsed their direction. The case looks overwhelming, and I for one think ASADA will come out of this pretty well, even though they have been asked to do a very difficult task for which they were never adequately resourced.

[Dees2014 2,377]

bb when this finalised in 2020 we will all have nothing to write about.

Oh I forgot I wont know what day it is and the rest of you will be still talking about the GF just won?

OD Have you taken an optimist pill. That is the first optimistic post I have ever seen from you!

[beelzebub 22,225]

Lifted off BF

Prime example of how many , especially EFC-Hird sympathisers just plainly get it wrong and don't understand the reality of their situation

"Essendon dont have to prove they didnt do the wrong thing (although it would certainly help obviously).

ASADA have to prove they did do the wrong thing."

The issue is that Essendon do indeed have to prove they didnt do wrong. They have to prove that to the satisfaction of the Tribunal.

ASADA present their evidence- observations- deductions etc and suggest the nature of the alleged transgression. its then beholden upon the accused to provide an alternative line of reason as to what happened. If they can't they WILL be found guilty as charged. Its not sufficient to create reasonable doubt as in a court room under law they must show why ASADA is fundamentally wrong in their case.

Its such a simple tenet and youd think simple folk might get it !!

[old dee 22,851]

So you know who will win the GF in 2020 OD?

Yep the mighty Dees

[daisycutter 28,508]

mods, can someone check od's ip address, seems someone has hijacked his logon

[old dee 22,851]

OD Have you taken an optimist pill. That is the first optimistic post I have ever seen from you!

You should read more

[binman 38,019]

The case looks overwhelming, and I for one think ASADA will come out of this pretty well, even though they have been asked to do a very difficult task for which they were never adequately resourced.

It is interesting isn't it. One thing seemingly all journos commenting on this palaver agree on (perhaps the only thing) is that ASADA have been poor/shoddy. I recall the lambasting the old CEO (whose name escapes me - Androuska?) copped after being cross examined in the Middleton trial.

Well Middleton didn't share the view of the peanut gallery and in fact went to some lengths to praise how considered she was in her responses and point out that she and ASADA had in fact been quite effective and the process she followed in terms of delegation were standard business practice. He even praised the joint investigation as a model, a model which had been roundly panned.

Not surprisingly this praise for ASADA was not highlighted and i don't recall a single journno even reconsidering their negative assessments, let alone change them.

Edited December 18, 2014 by binman

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

Have a look at how they shut down and ridicule any dissenting opinions of talk back callers etc - they're either EFC supporters reporting with their no. 5 jumpers on or they have other agendas (protecting the AFL or more importantly their AFL journalism credentials which gives them their coveted "access".)

Edited December 18, 2014 by Dr. Gonzo

[rjay 23,902]

What delays regarding EFC were caused by ASADA rjay ?

I think it could be argued that the joint investigation with the AFL has caused a few. I would be interested in whether the new ASADA management would have gone down the same path.

I'm not for one second saying they should get off lightly 'BB', in fact I think Hird should be a lifer and the players at least 2years from now but I'm also not blind to the fact that ASADA have made their share of mistakes, the biggest probably trusting a corrupt organisation like the AFL. Big Andy really pulled the wool over their eyes early in the saga.

[jazza 1,323]

that would be 'Parliament' Better me than BBO who will make you write lines...just saying ..lol

you,ewe,u, are probably right.

I respect your/you're opinion.

[jnrmac 18,954]

“This saga should never, ever have reached the position where it is today,” Jess said.

“The AFL has been negligent, absolutely from start to finish.”

Is Peter Jess ex manager of JOBE suggesting there was something "not right" with EFC's supplements program and the AFL is to blame?

Has the Comedy Festival hit town?

A must read . . .

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/nathan-lovett-murray-could-launch-claim-against-afl-over-essendon-doping-saga/story-e6frf3e3-1227158919835

How about speaking to your client that signed a consent form.

FMD its a joke. as is the media reporting

[jnrmac 18,954]

I think it could be argued that the joint investigation with the AFL has caused a few. I would be interested in whether the new ASADA management would have gone down the same path.

I'm not for one second saying they should get off lightly 'BB', in fact I think Hird should be a lifer and the players at least 2years from now but I'm also not blind to the fact that ASADA have made their share of mistakes, the biggest probably trusting a corrupt organisation like the AFL. Big Andy really pulled the wool over their eyes early in the saga.

errr, that sped up the process...