Time is up for some players

[Coq au vin 755]

But why re-sign Jake Spencer???

[Bobby McKenzie 2,321]

His role isn't to get in the middle and find his own ball. Roos post-match press conference is telling. He likes Watts, he and the coaching staff obviously know something about what he is trying to do that Demonlanders don't.

The worry is that Jack makes many good leads to position but gets ignored most of the time. This is folly since when the ball is in Jack's hands we know something good will happen.

Cameron Bruce was criticised by many on this forum as being 'soft' and with poor disposal. I certainly was not one of these. Imagine if Jack could win the ball as often as Bruce did ( averaged 26 possies a week) how the team would lift. 26 Watts disposals each week would be great and wouldn't that scoreboard start to tick over.

[old dee 23,487]

The worry is that Jack makes many good leads to position but gets ignored most of the time. This is folly since when the ball is in Jack's hands we know something good will happen.

Cameron Bruce was criticised by many on this forum as being 'soft' and with poor disposal. I certainly was not one of these. Imagine if Jack could win the ball as often as Bruce did ( averaged 26 possies a week) how the team would lift. 26 Watts disposals each week would be great and wouldn't that scoreboard start to tick over.

Yes it is good to ponder BM.

But I doubt 26 disposals and JW will ever go in the same sentence

[Bobby McKenzie 2,321]

Yes it is good to ponder BM.

But I doubt 26 disposals and JW will ever go in the same sentence

One can only live in hope old dee.

[george_on_the_outer 7,428]

The worry is that Jack makes many good leads to position but gets ignored most of the time. This is folly since when the ball is in Jack's hands we know something good will happen.

Cameron Bruce was criticised by many on this forum as being 'soft' and with poor disposal. I certainly was not one of these. Imagine if Jack could win the ball as often as Bruce did ( averaged 26 possies a week) how the team would lift. 26 Watts disposals each week would be great and wouldn't that scoreboard start to tick over.

Wrong....Jack does not make good leads. These days footballers have to run to space, not leading like a FF. And his team mates know that in a one on one contest...Jack won't win.

So not kicking it to him is the correct decision.

As you said above...".If Jack could win the ball."....(we would only dream he could win it as often as Bruce did).

[Beats 190]

Yes it is good to ponder BM.

But I doubt 26 disposals and JW will ever go in the same sentence

Watts has had 26 or more disposals 4 times in his 89 game career. Watts has had 20 or more disposals 18 times in his career, which is every 1 in 9 games.

He should definitely be considered as tradeable. In a better team where he gets more space/ protection/ time he will be a star, but those aren't things we can give him for at least another 2-3 years. If we're offered anything under pick 20 we should be taking it... because at the moment he's nothing but a good kick and there's every likelihood that at that pick there will be an outside mid with an elite kick, capable of getting 20+ possessions at a better rate than 1/9 games.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Beats

[old dee 23,487]

Watts has had 26 or more disposals 4 times in his 89 game career. Watts has had 20 or more disposals 18 times in his career, which is every 1 in 9 games.

He should definitely be considered as tradeable. In a better team where he gets more space/ protection/ time he will be a star, but those aren't things we can give him for at least another 2-3 years. If we're offered anything under pick 20 we should be taking it... because at the moment he's nothing but a good kick and there's every likelihood that at that pick there will be an outside mid with an elite kick, capable of getting 20+ possessions at a better rate than 1/9 games.

I would like to bet that everyone of them was when Neeld had him playing as an extra backman floating across Half back taking unopposed marks.

[old dee 23,487]

One can only live in hope old dee.

Not unexpectedly I guess BM I am over running on hope.

How much hope can one have?

[dee-luded 2,959]

But why re-sign Jake Spencer???

he's got go, he's got tenacity. the biggest lacking from the MFC, over many many years.

soft has No Place in the Red & Blue moving forward. clear the cupboards.

[watchtheeyes 1,404]

There are a hundred variables. Its about what you can get. he may not like a player but cant get anything for him. If he's contracted he stays.

I disagree with you! It certainly can be a mindset but Watts has never shown it. Look that can be OK with some players. Steven Stretch comes to mind. One of the first picked every week yet not physical.

Interestingly i have seen plenty of times when our players won't kick it to Watts who has run 30m on a lead. Its as thought they are saying 'stuff you I'm not giving you an easy ball'. there is somethig wrong and I suspect the club knows what it is.

For me I'd trade him.

I think it's a stretch to say that players are deliberately kicking to a less advantageous position simply because they want to punish JW. Could it also be that Watts is being inventive with his running yet players are continually kicking to the same position (eg. lack of creativity)? I don't know anything for certain however the language from Roos has been supportive from day dot so its worth asking what does he see that we don't... By all accounts JW is also very popular in the group.

Disclaimer: I'm in the Watts defender camp. I find it frustrating and predictable that he be the scapegoat for all our woes. I think its an easy out and blinds us from a multitude of other reasons. I've already agreed that he appears to shirk the contest on occasion and it is unsettling to say the least. However I am of the belief that time will give him confidence to take this on and that he remains in spite of this one of our better players. His dislike of contact is not the reason we continually lose yet his skills and creativity are often one of the main reasons we win.

[Coq au vin 755]

he's got go, he's got tenacity. the biggest lacking from the MFC, over many many years.

soft has No Place in the Red & Blue moving forward. clear the cupboards.

fair enough but he's not much good at the football! Can't mar or kick or hand pass or pick up the ball very well. It would have been a chance to delist and find a real football player with skills.

[beelzebub 23,198]

I think it's a stretch to say that players are deliberately kicking to a less advantageous position simply because they want to punish JW. Could it also be that Watts is being inventive with his running yet players are continually kicking to the same position (eg. lack of creativity)? I don't know anything for certain however the language from Roos has been supportive from day dot so its worth asking what does he see that we don't... By all accounts JW is also very popular in the group.

Disclaimer: I'm in the Watts defender camp. I find it frustrating and predictable that he be the scapegoat for all our woes. I think its an easy out and blinds us from a multitude of other reasons. I've already agreed that he appears to shirk the contest on occasion and it is unsettling to say the least. However I am of the belief that time will give him confidence to take this on and that he remains in spite of this one of our better players. His dislike of contact is not the reason we continually lose yet his skills and creativity are often one of the main reasons we win.

On the surface youd have to think what youre saying might actually be the case.

its just I , and quite a few others have noticed its like a game of 'keepings off Wattsy" at times.

The side of his game that encompasses using the ball and kicking etc is bloody brilliant., the other side that requires absolute commitment to a contest and scarcely a concern for ones own health...is sadly missing.

Yes its just an opinion but I know Im far from alone with it. id love to know what Roos really thinks he can do with ol' Jack or if he's really just as flummoxed as the rest of us !!

Edited July 14, 2014 by beelzebub

[robbiefrom13 877]

On the surface youd have to think what youre saying might actually be the case.

its just I , and quite a few others have noticed its like a game of 'keepings off Wattsy" at times.

The side of his game that encompasses using the ball and kicking etc is bloody brilliant., the other side that requires absolute commitment to a contest and scarcely a concern for ones own health...is sadly missing.

Yes its just an opinion but I know Im far from alone with it. id love to know what Roos really thinks he can do with ol' Jack or if he's really just as flummoxed as the rest of us !!

yes, it is a mystery that is there to be seen, pretty much every week. Along with the slow ball to a Watts contest. WTF, Melbourne?? Why doesn't Roos put his foot down about this? Yet he doesn't, so somehow, we are missing some fact...

[beelzebub 23,198]

yes, it is a mystery that is there to be seen, pretty much every week. Along with the slow ball to a Watts contest. WTF, Melbourne?? Why doesn't Roos put his foot down about this? Yet he doesn't, so somehow, we are missing some fact...

I wholeheartedly agree R13. we are obviously not privy to Roos' game thinking and he seems less annoyed by what Jack does or doesnt do ( most of the time ) as compared what many other players arent doing.

I know I just shake my head a lot watching the footy ( us ) and wonder what was going through the mind of this player or that.

Again all I know is really what I see. Often the effort at a contest is less than ordinary from ol' Jack. He might be doing everything else asked of him but I also know that in games you have to become a little inventive. If the mountain wont come etc. Some players just instinctively know how to immerse themselves into proceedings, others just seem like parked cars on the side of the freeway as everyone else wizzes past !!

[Bitter but optimistic 22,064]

His role isn't to get in the middle and find his own ball. Roos post-match press conference is telling. He likes Watts, he and the coaching staff obviously know something about what he is trying to do that Demonlanders don't.

Ridiculous comment!! Who could be better informed than Demonlanders?

[Red and Bluebeard 2,075]

Thats right,and the bloke now in charge is a stickler for following rules to win games.

He will delist /trade blokes who cant achieve that.

He will also take into account the players who are still learning this new game plan and will be better prepared for it next year after starting to mentally fatigued now ,and having less onboard team mates.

He also will only recruit players who can achieve the standard he wants.

Win Win for the club.

Anyone would think you are fan of Roosy, jazza ...

[Red and Bluebeard 2,075]

Ridiculous comment!! Who could be better informed than Demonlanders?

I am assuming that is a rhetorical question ...

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Interesting quote from PR:

“What happens with individuals, when the team doesn't play well, certain players get looked at because people know Jack Watts more than they know Rohan Bail or Matt Jones or whatever. Probably Watts is a good example because he is playing his role, but if everyone else is not playing their role, than it's really hard for him to play his role."

Maybe Demonland doesn't have all the insights after all? BBO I'm sure you'd be shocked...

[jnrmac 19,890]

Disclaimer: I'm in the Watts defender camp. I find it frustrating and predictable that he be the scapegoat for all our woes.

Who us saying that exactly? No-one.

What I'm saying is that he gives us very little and his lack of ability to win a contest is a huge problem for our team. The fact he has skills merely means he is tradeable IMO. Can't say that about too many other NQRs.

[Jimenez 9]

Interesting quote from PR:

“What happens with individuals, when the team doesn't play well, certain players get looked at because people know Jack Watts more than they know Rohan Bail or Matt Jones or whatever. Probably Watts is a good example because he is playing his role, but if everyone else is not playing their role, than it's really hard for him to play his role."

Maybe Demonland doesn't have all the insights after all? BBO I'm sure you'd be shocked...

So it's all bail & m.jones's fault that watts isn't the player we'd like him to be.? Pleased we've cleared that up. Funny I didn't notice them in the vicinity when jack made those 2 pathetic tackling efforts early on Saturday. I like jack, but maybe he'd be a better player if his defensive efforts were judged similarly to the others on the list. I reckon watts has probably the best skills on the list, but IMO he'll only improve when he's made to truly earn his spot in the 22.

[Jimenez 9]

Interesting quote from PR:

“What happens with individuals, when the team doesn't play well, certain players get looked at because people know Jack Watts more than they know Rohan Bail or Matt Jones or whatever. Probably Watts is a good example because he is playing his role, but if everyone else is not playing their role, than it's really hard for him to play his role."

Maybe Demonland doesn't have all the insights after all? BBO I'm sure you'd be shocked...

So it's all bail & m.jones's fault that watts isn't the player we'd like him to be.? Pleased we've cleared that up. Funny I didn't notice them in the vicinity when jack made those 2 pathetic tackling efforts early on Saturday. I like jack, but maybe he'd be a better player if his defensive efforts were judged similarly to the others on the list. I reckon watts has probably the best skills on the list, but IMO he'll only improve when he's made to truly earn his spot in the 22.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Another year I am looking forward to the trade period more than the rest of the season.

[dee-luded 2,959]

fair enough but he's not much good at the football! Can't mar or kick or hand pass or pick up the ball very well. It would have been a chance to delist and find a real football player with skills.

HahaHa, oh really, the same was said of Jamar, until he found some self belief & mojo. Why do you think the bulk of young rucks take so long to develop.

he has guts, & natural aggression. the basics to carry him forward in the ruck as a bash-crash ruck, Who will bust his arz to compete, run down players & tackle, even roundabout them, etc.

we stuck with white for years who wasn't a ruck, but a follower who wouldn't hurt a fly. & this is also a part of our choir boy wayz. give me a Simon Madden, a Clark Keating, a Mick Nolan, a Strawbs O'Dwyer.

But forget about the whites in the world... its not about looking pretty... its about winning the big matches & finals. where no 'beg your pardons' are uttered.

Rucks don't need to stab pass or spear a kick over 48 metres lace out... they need to play the big man role, hard & effectively. smash, crash, block, & hold the space. not let the other dominate, or get off the leash.

Its physical rucks we need.

[old dee 23,487]

Another year I am looking forward to the trade period more than the rest of the season.

Do you think we will ever get to Mid July and be enjoying the last six weeks of the season

[jazza 1,323]

Who us saying that exactly? No-one.

What I'm saying is that he gives us very little and his lack of ability to win a contest is a huge problem for our team. The fact he has skills merely means he is tradeable IMO. Can't say that about too many other NQRs.

Yep,and the problem also magnifies when after 89 so called games,how many great games does he now have to play to make up for the amount of time put into him by coaches/teammates/development coaches etc etc.

We are throwing so called good money after bad.We must have blokes like dunny on our list who are heartbroken to see the amount of chances this fella gets.Some players at our club{like every club}must spew when they see his output in games.

Doesnt help the club and so far the gig hasnt worked.