GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[beelzebub 22,268]

Because its a football forum and ppl are allowed to share their opinion!

Don't get me wrong you're right about the majority of us have no idea but we are allowed an opinion on the matter

If we stuck purely to irrefutable fact this place would lay dormant.

Forums are opinion driven

[jnrmac 19,203]

Sure you can take note, but how about this:

• How many players can you realistically name as knowing their contract value?
• Of those, how many are you sure about and how many are media speculation? and
• Have you adjusted for time, salary cap pressure at particular clubs, and various other list management strategies that were going on when those deals were signed?

If you can say yes to all of this, then I applaud you.

Otherwise, you're just making stuff up.

Plus incentives for number of games, B&F finish, front loading etc etc

[jnrmac 19,203]

If we stuck purely to irrefutable fact this place would lay dormant.

Forums are opinion driven

I get that. And when you are talking about a players contribution on the weekend there will be divergence and most opinions are valid.

When it comes to salary, there is touch envy/jealousy or simple real world NFI that gets me. PLus you have relativity which means for everyone its different. Take the current debate about the federal budget and whether its fair or not. Its such a wide concept.

If you earn $10 a week then $100 is a lot of money. So a football player should only get $150 right?

[beelzebub 22,268]

Plus incentives for number of games, B&F finish, front loading etc etc

Actually as an aside how ( as such ) is /are these treated in the cap. If a club looks to spend x amount or indeed the whole shebang of the cap I presume the club would suppose the full amount of entitlements are inclusive to the player payments. . If these criteria arent met then tpp simply fall a tad lower ?

[daisycutter 28,637]

If we stuck purely to irrefutable fact this place would lay dormant.

as would the majority of the media

[Beats 190]

Actually as an aside how ( as such ) is /are these treated in the cap. If a club looks to spend x amount or indeed the whole shebang of the cap I presume the club would suppose the full amount of entitlements are inclusive to the player payments. . If these criteria arent met then tpp simply fall a tad lower ?

Clubs employ list (asset) managers to figure out the hypotheticals and variances involved with contracts. Incentives/ bonuses fall under the cap. They figure out who the dream 22 is and what the match payments are for those players, they then run variances on who would play if player X went down and the potential cost of having that player in. Match payments vary dramatically from player to player. Someone like an N.Jones, who is expected to play the majority of games, quite likely has a very high base and low match payments.Someone like a Sam Blease could very easily be on triple the match payments that someone like an N.Jones is because it's unlikely he'll play many games and he's on a much smaller base.

[Pennant St Dee 11,358]

IAH it would not surprise me if he ended up at Sydney, think about the Tippett & Buddy moves, they identified from a long way out they were coming out of contract and adjusted their player re-signings accordingy to fit them in to thier cap. The moves were made with meetings/correspondence between the Swans and the players/agents. Once the season ended that was it the news came out and the footy world was shocked.

Footy clubs are notorious for following leader and I think you will find it becomes a common occurence from now on in by all clubs and the leaks will become non existant, leaving the likes of Barratt, Robbo, Pierik and Denham to guess and use teh old cliche "my sources"

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

IAH it would not surprise me if he ended up at Sydney, think about the Tippett & Buddy moves, they identified from a long way out they were coming out of contract and adjusted their player re-signings accordingy to fit them in to thier cap. The moves were made with meetings/correspondence between the Swans and the players/agents. Once the season ended that was it the news came out and the footy world was shocked.

Footy clubs are notorious for following leader and I think you will find it becomes a common occurence from now on in by all clubs and the leaks will become non existant, leaving the likes of Barratt, Robbo, Pierik and Denham to guess and use teh old cliche "my sources"

It's so much more expensive to live in Sydney isn't it....

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Whilst you make a valid observation that posters are not privy to the intricacies of the MFC salary cap and its consequential list management strategies, you should also leave some room for some posters to be aware of the contracts offered to various players in the comp especially when they have been made public.

Excluding product endorsements or player services arrangments (which are clearly confidential), the playing contract values of many high profile players is public knowledge. The financial arrangments for guys like Ablett, $cully, Tippett, and more recently Frankiln who have changed clubs is public knowledge and therefore sets a benchmark for the remuneration level of the competition's (so called) elite players.

Show me any player whose contact has been made public. It has never happened. The media speculating what the players contact is, isn't making it made public its just speculation. Nothing more.

I'm yet to hear a club, player or manager come out and say I've signed for $X.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Clubs employ list (asset) managers to figure out the hypotheticals and variances involved with contracts. Incentives/ bonuses fall under the cap. They figure out who the dream 22 is and what the match payments are for those players, they then run variances on who would play if player X went down and the potential cost of having that player in. Match payments vary dramatically from player to player. Someone like an N.Jones, who is expected to play the majority of games, quite likely has a very high base and low match payments.Someone like a Sam Blease could very easily be on triple the match payments that someone like an N.Jones is because it's unlikely he'll play many games and he's on a much smaller base.

Jones would not get any match payments. Without seeing his contract Id assume he would be on a guaranteed salary weather he plays or not.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Grimes Times

[Beats 190]

Jones would not get any match payments. Without seeing his contract Id assume he would be on a guaranteed salary weather he plays or not.

That's probable, however if he's not getting match payments he most likely would have incentives based on KPI's in his contract, KPI's which can only be achieved by playing games (bnf placing etc.). I wrote that line as an example to highlight how the list managers would calculate TPP.

[Demon 16 176]

Gone for all money - surely.

Why would he risk such big money either way, by waiting for the end of the year. There's no way he doesn't know what each club can offer him (or thereabouts).

Imagine he did a knee this week. All of a sudden he'd have no offers on the table other than a 2 year contract from Melbourne at about 350k per season.

[daisycutter 28,637]

because he can't sign a binding contract until fa period begins otherwise he (and whatever club) is in contravention of afl drafting rules

[Hot as Hell 465]

Show me any player whose contact has been made public. It has never happened. The media speculating what the players contact is, isn't making it made public its just speculation. Nothing more.

I'm yet to hear a club, player or manager come out and say I've signed for $X.

GT, with respect, I do not know (or care to know) the nature of your involvement in AFL football. From a distance, cynical remarks, supposedly to be taken as fact, do not constitute an argument.

I suggest you speak ot Jesse Hogan when you next see him. "Around that" is what you will be told, straight from the player himself. In good circles, the exact arrangements are not asked or answered. The player managers of each of the high profile players are versed in "manager speak" and have confirmed reported player payments in a similar way.

As this season comes to an end, I will try to keep you in mind and elert you to specific confirmed situations as they arise.

[Mousey 47]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-31/hardwicks-nfl-solution

Agree with this solution completely.

Implement this and some rule allowing players to be traded to any club without their consent of what club (other than the possibility of no trade clauses to be put in their contract as part of initial agreements) and we have a free agency that will work much more fairer for all parties involved

Edited July 31, 2014 by Mousey

[Pennant St Dee 11,358]

It's so much more expensive to live in Sydney isn't it....

Yep love that excuse, we had CHOGM here in 2011 and Police from Victoria, NSW & QLD were here for 2 weeks. At the time we were in the height of the mining boom and every one I spoke to said "I don't know how you guys can afford to live in this town"

The mining boom has ended but the prices have not reduced. Cost of living allowance my arse, just another AFL way of making sure the Northern experiment works. You can guarantee the AFL will continue to pump money into their two new Northern lovechilds until flags are delivered

Edited July 31, 2014 by Pennant St Dee

[Dockett 32 1,213]

Great that Hardwick has added his two bobs worth and I hope plenty more do as well. Not so clear on the 5th to 8th bit, presume there could be a model designed, that would work for the AFL, to afford the protection he was alluding to. Nice place to start.

[Undeeterred 2,874]

Because its a football forum and ppl are allowed to share their opinion!

Don't get me wrong you're right about the majority of us have no idea but we are allowed an opinion on the matter

Oh of course, I'm not disputing that at all.

All I am saying is that when we talk about what players are worth, we have absolutely no idea and are just pulling those opinions out of our bums.

At least when we have opinions on something like a football game, we have some basis on which to have those opinions. Player value is completely different.

[ijbfossil 77]

Sadly it appears James is going. Say it ain't so James.

(free agency is crap for lower clubs like the Dees - the AFL bang on about equalization but support free agency - the two are mutually exclusive).

[Matt Demon 1,387]

The only thing I care about now is what compo we get.

[Pennant St Dee 11,358]

After watching Luke Mcpharlin tonight, Frawleys value just went up again.

Time has caught up with him and that yard he has lost sees his opponent getting away from him on leads and at the fall of the ball.

Silvagni not good enough more depth and Taberner still a few years away

If their window is to remain open for a couple more years they are going to need a defender from somewhere and they had a big tilt at Harry Taylor so they have some coin available

[ijbfossil 77]

Yep - good point re McPharlin tonight Pennant St Dee ( and he has been a terrific player). So even more spotlight on Frawley as you say.

[jackaub 1,402]

I am scared that JF will stay and continue to underperform and show poor leadership That treally worries me and maybe other clubs see his attitude as a negative

[nutbean 8,837]

I am scared that JF will stay and continue to underperform and show poor leadership That treally worries me and maybe other clubs see his attitude as a negative

Steve - it's not just you I will bite back at.

Again - you can debate his worth all you like and whether you want him to stay or not - but I will ask two questions.

Continue to underperform ?? no 2 on our goalkicking, no 1 marks for the club overall, no 1 on average marks per game, no 3 on contested marks, no 2 on marks inside 50, no 3 on inside 50's ( means he is working hard as a lead up forward), ranked 7th in dreamteam and 4th in supercoach ( i don't really rate these systems as reflective of a players true worth). Would you possibly like to revise your post ?

Is he in AA form ? No. Could he play better ? Yes, Calling him an underperformer ?

Poor leadership - please elaborate. Do I think he is great leader ? probably not. Do I think he should be in the LG - probably not. But again we don't really have full insight. Just because a player is not a great leader - doesn't follow that he is a poor leader. I would like to know why you think he is "poor" leader.

Please tell me what you think opposition clubs will see in his attitude ? What opposition clubs will see is a player that is a "cleanskin" - doesn't come with baggage like your Heath Shaws, like your Fevola's. He trains, he plays, he doesn't miss too many games through injury. tick. What opposition clubs will see is a player who can is quick and can play against bigs and has had some success against smalls. tick. What opposition clubs will see is a player who can swing both ends of the ground. tick. What opposition clubs will see is a player who is still off his best AA form from years back. Cross. What opposition clubs will see is a player who can turn the ball over, can make dumb decisions and doesn't really hurt oppositions with his foot and hand skills. Cross.

And again, won't argue with posters that feel he won't be missed and easily replaced. Maybe yes maybe no. Won't argue with posters that feel we will do better by receiving an early draft pick for him. Maybe yes, maybe no. Won't argue with posters who think he is gone - probably yes, maybe no. But I will take exception with opinions that are coloured because of his stance of not revealing his preferred position until seasons end.

Edit - You will also note that Frawley is 3rd in the league for marks. Not too bad when you consider where we are ranked for inside 50's. IMO opinion it also shows that for a player who has taken the 3rd most marks in the league he hasn't had enough impact - means he doesn't do enough with the ball when he marks it.

Edited July 31, 2014 by nutbean

[Redleg 37,907]

Sadly it appears James is going. Say it ain't so James.

(free agency is crap for lower clubs like the Dees - the AFL bang on about equalization but support free agency - the two are mutually exclusive).

Pretty obvious when Prendergast the players CEO says FA is needed so that "players can get to the successful clubs".