Post match discussion - Round 6

[whoszachunt 29]

Given the amount of scrutiny from the newspapers, tv, fans, team mates, and the general public I would expect this week if Jack plays to either spur him on or wash him up. After so much criticism and negative press if he cannot get himself to put in, (that does not mean he has to win but he needs to demonstrate desire to win the ball and contest) then nothing is going to inspire him. Dropping him provides him with an easy out by running him around the twos and possibly playing more lazy football because he is playing with casey. He can probably pick up enough touches to get selected again in the seniors but it does not mean that he has changed his approach to the game. He needs to demonstrate that he can play with the big boys, doing it now provides us with a better idea of whether to keep him or get rid of him at the end of the year because time is running out for Jack.

Time HAS run out.. He cannot consistently "cut it" Sad but true... AFL Senior Football is not his go..Maybe mixed netball at this stage or some Non Contact sport... Running could be his go... ??? I am not joking... I have given him so many "chances" to prove himself as have others... The time has come when getting anything of value as a trade is also doubtful...Who wants him ??

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I disagree with dropping watts, doing so is just being petty to punish him for our loss. He can turn it on and thats what we need him to do. Again I suggest sit the whole team down and go over the match tapes and have each player suggest what they could have done better in each situation. Jack needs to focus on what he is not doing instead of what he is doing. He stops to appeal for free kicks a lot more these days instead of playing on and on until the whistle. He needs specific training to cover his deficiencies or needs, more tackling more being tackled, more chasing. dont worry about kicking the ball and that sort of stuff.

I think you make a good point here, my gut feel is that Roos' philosophy is not to swing axes but to just try and 'fix' a player.. can anyone recall his time at Sydney, was he an axeswinger?

Although, to be fair, I don't think he had to deal with the type of soft, uncommitted football that has plagued this club for the last decade at least. The same things that are said about Watts were said about Bruce, Green, Yze, Robbo and Johnstone at various stages of their careers.

[Lucifers Hero 39,787]

I like the prospects of our side so much more knowing we have Riley, Garland, Hogan, Salem, Kent, Toump and Clisby waiting in the wings.

Yes, it will be great. Lets hope there are some goal kickers among them. Not many of our midfield (in its broadest sense) can do this. We can pin high hopes on Hogan, Dawes, Frawley but we need the midfield regularly kicking a few.

[Bingo 305]

Watched the game with my old man and i have to agree with his comments on Watts.

"Get him off the field and put someone else on that will tackle and chase"...I cannot defend his lack of endeavor anymore. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than Jog Watts.

There was footage shown before the game with Cameron Ling pointing out Watts' chasing in the Gold Coast game.

Chris Dawes sprinted from 15m behind Watts and chased Watts' man, didn't manage to tackle him, although put him under pressure all the while Watts just jogged along like it was never his responsibility.

People are surprised that players like Dunn, M Jones, Pederson ect are improving while others with more talent aren't.

The simple answer is that players willing to put the effort in and can play a roll are the type of players the fit the Roos game style.

I'll be happy to see those players that think they're above the team, or in some way special and don't have to play by the team rules, moved on at years end.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Bingo

[dee-luded 2,959]

At the end of the game I had the following thoughts:

1. When hPaul Roos was signed as Melb coach I never thought that at round 5 the most improved players under his tenure would include Pederson, Dunn and Matt Jones.

2. I also never thought that our side might be better without Watts, Trenners, the Toump and Grimes in it still under Paul Roos.

Watts has to learn to turn it on when he is off.

Does Howe have more to his game?

Is Matt Jones continually under-rated?

Are Dunn, Cross and Pederson the most trustworthy and accountable players on our list at the moment?

this may also allude to a past culture at the club, as well, a hierarchy that wasn't helpful? just thinking out aloud, hollywood boulevard stuff??

if the Roos culture is more supportive & aids those struggling for due respect from the Old ways, then its possible the past weaker links can become more powerful, as they were possibly hindered by ways of an old culture ? .... & conversely the talented were spoilt ?

This could also be a reason for our past Poor development of our 'others' players, & kids.

[dazzledavey36 54,932]

Give me guy like Geogiou and Pedersen who bust their ass and show courage over the soft [censored] Jack Watts.

One of the most pathetic game from an AFL player I have ever seen. Even in country footy you don't get away with some of those insipid efforts he put out on the weekend.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I thought the effort was excellent and if we can bring that intensity every week I will be happy.

I know we only kicked 5 goals but I'm a big believer in getting your defence right first and then worrying about offence. Yes we have been lucky with teams kicking poorly in games but I still think we've looked better defensively and have applied more pressure for longer periods of the game than we have in recent seasons. Our defence will get tested by better teams but at the moment we are not leaking goals like we have used to in the past and that means we are staying in games longer.

Yep it was scrappy and dour but I'd take that any day over seeing the opposition kick goal after goal and us be 10 goals down at half time. In fact I loved the second quarter, I thought the intensity and pressure was terrific and it didn't bother me that only one goal was kicked. Finals footy is tough and hard and low scoring and you need to be able to scrap.

I thought the difference in the game was Sydney's run and spread off half back. Guys like Shaw, Malceski and Rampe, with their hard running and pace they were able to get the ball out of the defensive half of their ground very quickly. We really lack this type of player - guys that can spread quickly and run the ball out of defence and then kick long and accurately. Sydney just have more class in their 22 than we do and that really was the major difference in the game.

It wasn't a night for key forwards and Sydney's were quiet as well, but Frawley, Howe and Dawes were poor and, while we had a forward structure, we didn't really look dangerous with the long kick into our forward line (Dawes' effort was tremendous but he just couldn't get enough separation on his opponent to take any grabs).

On Watts, I thought his effort was better than last week (which isn't saying much) but it was still well below acceptable levels. I wonder whether he looks at Pederson's game and thinks, "gee, here's a bloke who is undersized for the role he plays, not a great athlete, not quick, not particularly skilful, yet he had 10 times the impact that I did". Pederson probably got about 95% out of his natural talents tonight, Watts probably operated at about 15%.

Overall another loss but I can see where we are heading and I believe in it. We will come up short most weeks as we don't have the talent but if we give effort like that I can't have any complaints.

this is why I want us to keep an eye on Gaff, & also have a good nudge at Prestia when the time comes. Prestia a very good extractor & very strong around the ground roving.

Gaff for his gut run & kicking. both home town boys & ex passionate Dees.

Shiel also would make a good trade option if he desires to return to Melbourne, for a top player wanting out for Big Dollar$ ...

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think we do our team a disservice when we make comments like this. After one or two games you can say its luck but after 5 out of 6 I think we can start to say that the other teams don't look very good/don't convert their chances because we're not allowing them to.

you may be focusing to hard & narrow on his words, without seeing the full picture. I think he's talking about our balance between the new defence, & our ability to score.

If they had kicked more accurately, we may have struggled to respond with scores of our own, to match.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yeah I'm as frustrated as the next person but that kind of thing doesn't help anyone. It makes a player down on confidence even worse and it shows the rest of the team our support for them is conditional.

it is conditional. love doesn't come free. its a trust that's earn't after the initial respect you give to stranger.

if people continually lean on you & bleed you, with no respect & care given back. then that respect & any love, turns to despair & anger, frustration.

the people are trying to help Jack, by telling him. This is just One step before totally giving up on him.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was heartened by the effort. Jamar gave us first use much more often. i think that would have made a huge difference. The Swans were inaccurate but that had to do with their mids having to do all the running and kick the goals. That is as much to do with their lack of forward potency than anything.

Pedo is working his guts out. Matt Jones too. Terlich is brave and takes marks in front of leading key forwards. His disposal gives me the willies.

We are desperately in need of tough half backs that can kick and have some leg speed.

I remember Webber and I both calling for Howe to be traded last year. I argued he was lazy and a poor thinker on the field. Howe is a liability. Watts is not a footballer and nothing will change that. Can't get cross at/with him. He doesn't have it. It is not in his nature.

Salem is a footballer and not even the MFC can change that.

Funny, but I'd think that if Chip won his position, we were a big chance of winning the game last night. We matched the swans through the midfield for large chunks of the evening. We just needed reward for effort. The sooner we can wave goodbye to chip and watts and howe and get some players in that work hard and have some talent, the better. The lack of competitive effort from those three is really stark. I*'d drop chip when hogan is fit. I'd drop Watts and Howe as soon as toump and riley are fit. Salem is starting 18. JHK should be running around for casey - he's not ready.

BTW, the umpiring last night was despicable. They are now just randomly paying frees. It is inconsistent contest to contest. Buddy gets a bit of body contact..free. Chip has a swans player pulling is arms down - nothing in it. There are dozens of examples and they compel me to use very bad language!

Wow, totally agree.

although still 50/50 on chipper, as he's in the age/games bracket we need?

[dee-luded 2,959]

I have no idea why we persist with Byrnes. Cant hit a target with a handball and cost us .wattsy needs to get back to basics in the 2's and Howe the same. Terrible game with even our good players missing targets . Field kicking was bad .

Umpires are a joke . Commentary on 7 is an absolute farce .

Salem will keep up with the Joneses and BigCam showed his critics . We need another crumbing foward Byrnes retired Play Sammy .

Byrnes is not a list clogger, he's a list filler. he's the 22nd player, with experience & strength as a small forward that others have to push beyond to get called up. he is the hurdle required to make the others push harder in effort & smarts to replace him. he helps the 2nds players to aim higher, if they have it in them.

[old dee 23,790]

IMO there is a very good chance that Watts and Howe will play against the Crows.

I believe part of the reason will be because there is really no one playing in the reserves that can take his place.

It shows to me again the poor state of our list.

Edited April 28, 2014 by old dee

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'm sorry, but being a critic of a professional player and then him delivering in one game doesn't warrant an 'apology'. If Pedersen has this ability and chooses when to actually run hard or try he should be owing us an apology for making him watch those god awful games he has previously produced since arriving at the club. I admit, I was and still am a harsh on Pederson, but if he continues this good form I wont be apologising for an AFL footballers pedigree of skill and determination he has finally found, but rather a sense of admiration.

I've been the same on Dunn. now he has extracted the digital thing & is really playing.

[old dee 23,790]

IMO there is a very good chance that Watts and Howe will play against the Crows.

I believe part of the reason will be because there is really no one playing in the reserves that can take their place.

It shows to me again the poor state of our list.

[P-man 13,366]

IMO there is a very good chance that Watts and Howe will play against the Crows.

I believe part of the reason will be because there is really no one playing in the reserves that can take their place.

It shows to me again the poor state of our list.

Realistically I think you're right. Watts importantly provides another tall option to float forward, and if he can manage to mark the ball it will be.a bonus.

Both will play this week, but there is little doubt that both deserve to be dropped.

[dee-luded 2,959]

THIS from Crossy in his post-match interview, shows that he noticed and is fed up (already) with some players who aren't putting in:

“We certainly had intent and pressure from most of the guys, which was a massive improvement from last week, but that’s the minimum standard that you have to have every week.

“It’s a tough game that we play and you can’t have any passengers any week, so that’s what was disappointing.”

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2014-04-26/rd-6-daniel-cross-interview

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Realistically I think you're right. Watts importantly provides another tall option to float forward, and if he can manage to mark the ball it will be.a bonus.

Both will play this week, but there is little doubt that both deserve to be dropped.

Rubbish. Play a kid who has the right attitude. Even if they are beaten they will learn from the experience.

Watts still plays like he did in 2009.

A schoolboy

[dee-luded 2,959]

You can see the pure exasparation on Paul Roos face as he's walking away.

I read Howe's face as more 'what is he talking about?'. A lack of understanding, which is indicative of where we've come from and where we're at.

2 x Ego's in big denial. not wanting the truth.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Good point . Dunne and Pederson have really bought in ( and I put my hand up for not being a Pederson fan) they are both to be commended and I'm happy to eat humble pie.. Lets hope Roos and Co. can get Watts and Howe to respond in the same positive manner. Would be a great result for all. Funny thing is, they both have great skills. We just want more of them.

[dee-luded 2,959]

You can see the pure exasparation on Paul Roos face as he's walking away.

I read Howe's face as more 'what is he talking about?'. A lack of understanding, which is indicative of where we've come from and where we're at.

2 x Ego's in big denial. not wanting the truth.

And who is going to replace him?

Garland looks to be injured again, that leaves Tapscott and Strauss.

Safe as a church.

watts has run out of chances IMO... Howe is still got a couple of cards to play before that?

one at a time, to tame the shy but egocentric.

Watts on 2nds this week, Howes next in line. then the 2 of them can compete against one another for the one spot; to get back in after 4 - 5 weeks time.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Looks like another list cull at end of year. Liking the way Roos is going about it. Looks like he is receiving good support from Cross -an on ground coach

& I wouldn't mind another on-field playing coach up forward next year, doing like Crossy.

[P-man 13,366]

Rubbish. Play a kid who has the right attitude. Even if they are beaten they will learn from the experience.

Watts still plays like he did in 2009.

A schoolboy

Missed the point, WYL.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The players said under Neeld they were so focused on fitness instead of the game plan, so they should be fit.

Roosy said preseason that they were track fit, but not footy fit. That is to say aerobically fit, but not, stop go, stop & go, continually fit. they modified the footy training to be more representative of gameday needs.

but the mentality of continually going, then turn around & sprint back to defend, then run again to receive & carry, is wats missing. that continual mental push to beat the opposition at every turn.

Edited April 28, 2014 by dee-luded

[Damo 3,356]

If the leadership group have any clout at all, it may be their role to take a stand against Jack Watts being in the ones each week.

You cant expect team players to put in, when they watch that. Its not just this week or last week, his onfield performance must be bad for team harmony.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Missed the point, WYL.

No i didn't. Play Watts in the seniors and we will get more of the same. His attitude is not right. I honestly thought Roosy had got him firing after Round 1. I was wrong.

Jack has got to want to reach the next level. He has had 5 years of hiding behind excuses. The biggest one himself.

He is not going to mess up his hairstyle to win a single contest. Let alone a 2 hour battle.