POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I thought St Kilda were hard at it, disciplined, fit and well structured. They made some mistakes too and with the exception of Riewoldt lacked star power but they (unfortunately) were a hell of a lot better than I was expecting. I thought we were ok. Tyson is a huge pick up. Most here acknowledging that he was ok and got a lot of the ball but seem more focused on a couple of turnovers. He reads it so well in stop ball situations. Watts for me was a revelation. Two or three times he had me screaming, "just tackle the *$#^%#" but his game sense, explosive speed and ball use was exceptional. Dunn has taken a massive step over the past 12 months that I simply didn't think was possible. His vision and kicking have been huge. His kickouts immense.

Trengove worries me but my biggest concern is our ruck. I'm more of a fan of Spencer than most but we seemed to lack two major things outside the obvious one (a tall forward or two) and that was an aerial threat around the ground and some line breaking speed. Say what you like about Jamar but he did give us a reliable bail out option when we were tired late in quarters and needed to long up the line. When Watts and M Jones (anyone else surprised by how quick he was last night?) broke the lines it highlighted how our slowish midfield (Tyson, Trengove, Toumpas, Cross below average) needs to be balanced with the some genuine outside zip. Going forward I think we've got the basis of a good midfield. We need two more A graders preferably with speed. In Salem and Viney we have star potential to develop but I think we need at least another from outside the current list. Our forward line obviously promises much but delivers little. Even if we get two of the much hyped three key forwards back, I worry about our lack of genuine speed at their feet. Defensively we seem to have some great depth with Dunn emerging and Georgiou really impressing me. Bring back Garland and we're in good shape but again we need some more speed to help break the lines and an elite Matt Suckling-like boot wouldn't go astray. Can we morph Blease and Strauss?

I'm disappointed but not slashing my wrists. Roos promised we'd see a style emerge by round 5. I think we can see it now and that's without a quality tall forward to kick to. The demographic of our list is encouraging. Three key jigsaw pieces in the off-season, the maturing of Viney, Salem, Hogan and Toumpas as well as the forgotten man Kent, another pre-season to hone our understanding of the gameplan and a half decent run with injuries and I don't think we're as far off a finals appearance as most think.

As another poster suggested earlier, a Bulldogs 2013 would be fine. Get something close to our best 22 on the park and the second half of the season might set us up as a desirable place for players to come.

[bing181 9,436]

Thats irrelevant, we hear that every year. The fact is if they come back we will have other injuries to replace them. Every team has injured players, its something we need to deal with and our depth need to stand up.

Adelaide lost Tex Walker and Tippett last year … how did that work out? Hawthorn lost one key player this year in Franklin, and on that alone, plenty have been writing them off. Many here are saying we should have easily beaten St Kilda because they had 3 or 4 of their mids out, which suddenly makes them easy-beats?

Injuries, sure. But having 5 key talls/forwards out, plus a key backman - that would have a substantial impact on ANY side in the comp, hard to see how anyone could suggest otherwise.

In any case, that wasn't the point of my post, or what I was replying to.

[bing181 9,436]

i'd rather see them make a bad decision then show indecision.

Classic response to a new game plan, new coaches etc. where players are more intent on not messing up. Which, as is always the way, often leads to messing up.

For the moment.

[Ted Lasso 19,564]

Classic response to a new game plan, new coaches etc. where players are more intent on not messing up. Which, as is always the way, often leads to messing up.

For the moment.

Exactly, not having forward targets makes it a nightmare also, we are definitely a better side than in 2013, i reckon we will push alot of teams this year.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I don't know that Roosy was out coached, i think we had plan A and that was good enough to win, we simply didn't execute it well enough, too much indecision not knowing who to kick too,

we need one of Dawes or Hogan for the GWS game.

Perhaps he too, Roos, needs some 'game time.'

The game's changed even in the last 3 years....

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Progress? Last night we scored 51 points, kicking 6 goals for the match. Last year our average was 66 points.

[chook fowler 19,734]

You need cattle to have a plan B - we had none. it's a game we should have won but at least we are getting some ball which was not happening last year. Enough good signs from the recruits. let down by the mega spuds Byrnes and Pederson. Hopefully Blease, Gawn and Viney in next week and ? Hogan. It would be good if West Coast was left battered and bruised by the Dogs.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Progress? Last night we scored 51 points, kicking 6 goals for the match. Last year our average was 66 points.

Love the cherry picked statistics. You're not wrong, but it's the first time we kept a team under 90 points since 2012 as well. Swings and roundabouts eh?

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Love the cherry picked statistics. You're not wrong, but it's the first time we kept a team under 90 points since 2012 as well. Swings and roundabouts eh?

Hypocritical at best - Saints had half their team in.

Cherry picked stats to counter cherry picked stats.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Love the cherry picked statistics. You're not wrong, but it's the first time we kept a team under 90 points since 2012 as well. Swings and roundabouts eh?

True. As cherry picked as yours. But I'm guessing points for needs to be greater than points against to win occasionally, eh?

[dee-luded 2,959]

It's pretty soft to single out Pedersen IMO. We all know he isn't good enough. That isn't his fault, and nor is it his fault that we have literally no over options at the moment. Concentrate on the issues that are actually within the players' control.

thats it.. pederson is a depth/project tall utility player. probably on not much, even if over 2 more years.

he's not meant to be 1st 22... he's a cover player, that might turn into something. remember dunn 4 yrs back, not much

[chook fowler 19,734]

Pederson has been in the system a long time now and is unlikely to improve. Can't get over those 2 goals he missed. His best football has been down back

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Hypocritical at best - Saints had half their team in.

Cherry picked stats to counter cherry picked stats.

As did we.

I threw the other stat out there to show how easy it is to support your feelings by choosing one stat and ignoring another.

[chook fowler 19,734]

the Eagle are looking awesome tonight. we will be in a world of pain next week - but what's new!

[jumbo returns 6,741]

the Eagle are looking awesome tonight. we will be in a world of pain next week - but what's new!

Exactly.

[Demon Disciple 12,489]

Hypocritical at best - Saints had half their team in.

Cherry picked stats to counter cherry picked stats.

And our turnovers contributed to at least half their score.

[Demon Disciple 12,489]

the Eagle are looking awesome tonight. we will be in a world of pain next week - but what's new!

They have a much better midfield than the Saints, Much better rucks, much better backline and their forward line has way more targets.

World of pain......................oh yeah, she's a coming (batten down the hatches)

[jumbo returns 6,741]

They have a much better midfield than the Saints, Much better rucks, much better backline and their forward line has way more targets.

World of pain......................oh yeah, she's a coming (batten down the hatches)

[censored].

[rpfc 28,964]

True. As cherry picked as yours. But I'm guessing points for needs to be greater than points against to win occasionally, eh?

Really...

Our opponents averaged 122 points against us last year so there is your perspective.

[rpfc 28,964]

I thought St Kilda were hard at it, disciplined, fit and well structured. They made some mistakes too and with the exception of Riewoldt lacked star power but they (unfortunately) were a hell of a lot better than I was expecting. .

Good post, but the above is a powerful exception...

Give us Riewoldt and we would have won by 6 goals.

He was a class above everyone in that game and is the reason we are slitting our wrists right now.

Judging how we will go this season on one game is foolhardy, but I have said since Roos came on board that we are still a poor list and that fact is still showing, but the effort and endeavour is up, the game plan is viable and visible, and I now look forward to games than in trepidation.

[Earl Hood 6,152]

the Eagle are looking awesome tonight. we will be in a world of pain next week - but what's new!

Yes I looked at there team for tonight's match and thought OMG this line up will destroy us. I will be very interested in how Jamie Benell goes as this could reopen the development vs talent debate. Lets see how he goes.

I also noted at the same time how many of their players were picks we could have snaffled! Shuey, Scott Selwood are the obvious, Nic Nat is debateable, as is the forward that everyone else went past, Jack Darling. But the point is they have made every early draft pick count we on the other hand have, what? Lets face it we have stuffed it up every time in the early picks. In that we picked a player with some talent but could have picked a player with exceptional talent.

Yes the jury is out on a lot of our early picks but that is what shytes me big time about MFC. We are always debating the long term outcome of our first round draftees. Other sides find their first rounders but not all of them just hit the ground running and are at least useful in their first season and they have confidence in their futures. But no not us, we are forever debating skills vs appetite for the contest vs body type etc to compensate why they are under performing!

[DemonOX 8,837]

Classic response to a new game plan, new coaches etc. where players are more intent on not messing up. Which, as is always the way, often leads to messing up.

For the moment.

I think the hawks were like this when Clarko initially took over.

The fact that we have had to deal with 7 yrs of crapola we can't expect suddenly a football miracle and be a top 8 or 4 side.

Patient is required yet again but this time we have Roos not a no name apprentice coach.

[olisik 4,060]

Lucas Cook instead of Darling....god damn.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Good post, but the above is a powerful exception...

Give us Riewoldt and we would have won by 6 goals.

He was a class above everyone in that game and is the reason we are slitting our wrists right now.

Judging how we will go this season on one game is foolhardy, but I have said since Roos came on board that we are still a poor list and that fact is still showing, but the effort and endeavour is up, the game plan is viable and visible, and I now look forward to games than in trepidation.

This is the line that has me walking away from the game with more positives than negatives. We are already seeing a proper game plan and the players have clearly bought into it. It will just take time for it to click and for the new players to integrate themselves properly into the side.

[monoccular 17,697]

How is it we only had 75 interchanges?

I though when you are a man down players need more rests not less?

Hard to interchange guys who aren't actually there.

I too had a bad feeling post game. It was due to expectation and that isn't something I have had for a while. I expected to win and was frustrated that we damn well could have. Unlike last year when statistically we got blown away we actually registered possessions, won contested ball and had more 50 metre entries than the opposition. The stat I didn't like was the 70 turnovers and the poor kicking for goal. Another stat was the new midfield with Michie and Tyson have a combined total of 16 games, Michie playing his 2nd game.

Key forwards win you matches and Riewoldt was the difference simple as that. In a little while the list cloggers will move on and we all know who they are. I was also surprised how much taller the Saints were than us and that showed.

I may be more comfortable next week as I have no expectation at all of the result against the Eagles

You were surprised that they were taller than us, with our three tallest first choice forwards not available, then two more talls falling in action??

Roos really needs to pull their head in, i know that sounds harsh, but if it was Neeld who lost to St Kilda everyone would be calling for his sacking, he's being paid a lot of money, should be able to beat St Kildas vfl side, i know all the outs don't help but still, i know lots of people will go off at me for this, but it made me so furious when they lost an easy match like that

Trouble is it was never going to be an easy match to win, without a forward line to start with and with the key stand in forward falling, and the best negator of Riewoldl in the competition also falling. Honestly, what did you really expect?? An easy win??