Training - Wednesday 15th January, 2014

[monoccular 17,431]

Its simple for me.

I have to believe that players will improve under the Roos regime. Therefore I am giving everyone a clean slate and lets see what happens. I wont make bold predictions of "xxxx won't be here in 12 months" or " XXX will never make a forward/Midfielder/defender/footballer". I am just going to wait and see who blossoms but my gut tells me that there will be some surprises -we will see some footballers who have largely been written off come good.

Roos has had a pretty good record of turning sows' ears into silk purses: hope he can do the same with our 'marginals', as well as getting sustained performances out of our top players.

[Machsy 2,858]

Jut looked at the pics of training and Dunn looked switched on, is it possible he will improve under Roos? Same,with pederson? I'd be interested in the thoughts of those watching training.

Roos has a long history of success with players that are physically mature and talented, but mentally haven't quite "got it" yet. I expect Dunn and Pedersen to perform above their previous best under Roos.

Nothing I seen in Watts as a junior suggests he will be a dominate midfielder.

Watts has played his best football as a forward - both in juniors and AFL.

The thing is, he hasn't had the body and strength to dominate as a forward.

He is only 22 years of age, he is still filling out.

Fans get too impatient sometimes, especially with quality draft picks.

Interesting you say that, because regardless of what "you seen" I've heard Watts' coach from Brighton Grammar (Robert Shaw, of all people) say multiple times on radio that Watts was often played in the midfield, but was so effective in the middle that matches deteriorated into a non-contest, so to maintain some balance, Shaw would keep him up forward.

Only school footy, but that's essentially what we're discussing when we talk about Watts in junior footy, outside of his play for Vic Metro.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

I've heard Watts' coach from Brighton Grammar (Robert Shaw, of all people) say multiple times on radio that Watts was often played in the midfield, but was so effective in the middle that matches deteriorated into a non-contest, so to maintain some balance, Shaw would keep him up forward.

edit: Only school footy, but that's essentially what we're discussing when we talk about Watts in junior footy, outside of his play for Vic Metro.

That makes perfect sense Machsy.

Watts would have been a cut above everyone else. As a school footy coach you would want the ball in his hands. His disposal would have been better than anyone else's, he would have been taller than other players and faster too. He would have been Superman and the others, mere mortals.

His challenge now is to don the red cape at AFL level. I reckon he can do it.

[Hannibal 5,814]

A lot of ifs there but, under a new coaching regimen and with better players around him in the midfield, I'd give him a good chance of proving the critics wrong.

What would he be proving them wrong about ?

Any criticisms of Watts are completely valid. If he manages to change the intensity of his game, as well as his appetite for the contest, he'll only be validating those prior criticisms.

[mjt 640]

I heard he didn't train too well this morning.

[Rolling Stone 157]

What would he be proving them wrong about ?

Any criticisms of Watts are completely valid.

Watts has had plenty of criticism in his short career. Some of it has been justified but any criticism?

You have made such a broad sweeping statement that if you think about it, you would realise that it is totally absurd.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Roos has a long history of success with players that are physically mature and talented, but mentally haven't quite "got it" yet. I expect Dunn and Pedersen to perform above their previous best under Roos.

Interesting you say that, because regardless of what "you seen" I've heard Watts' coach from Brighton Grammar (Robert Shaw, of all people) say multiple times on radio that Watts was often played in the midfield, but was so effective in the middle that matches deteriorated into a non-contest, so to maintain some balance, Shaw would keep him up forward.

Only school footy, but that's essentially what we're discussing when we talk about Watts in junior footy, outside of his play for Vic Metro.

Admittedly the Vic Metro games were the only games I seen Watts in.

Let's hope this Robert Shaw bloke is on the money, not only with Watts - but also Salem.

My younger brother used to always tell me Watts could've made it to high level point guard - basketball.

I wonder if that is Roos thinking, point guard/midfielder, bloke who sets up the play.. Roos loves his basketball.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Watts has had plenty of criticism in his short career. Some of it has been justified but any criticism?

You have made such a broad sweeping statement that if you think about it, you would realise that it is totally absurd.

Change ''any'' to ''most'' if you prefer.

No biggie.

[Whispering_Jack 30,173]

Change ''any'' to ''most'' if you prefer.

No biggie.

Some critics were saying that Watts would never make it. They're the ones who I was suggesting he would prove wrong if the new look Watts succeeded in the midfield under Roos.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

I have no hesitation in saying there is no chance Watts will be the elite key forward we had hoped for.

I have no hesitation stating that he could easily carve out a career and become a high quality defensive sweeper.

The midfield role is so full of unknowns that I don't think anyone can ceiling how he will go. What we do know is he himself has said that is where he played most of his junior career and where he felt most comfortable as a junior. We also know he stated that going hard for short bursts and then coming off in the mid field more suits his make up and may see his elite speed (as tested at draft camp) come more to the for. We also know he has some elite attributes in his ball handling and disposal skills.

Whether he makes up the numbers or becomes a seriously good mid will come down to his ability find the ball as well as an improvement in his endurance and want to hunt the ball and man. Being under the development of Roos and Stone I would not ceiling him in those aspects either.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I have no hesitation in saying that I seriously doubt Watts will ever become an A-grade, or even seriously good mid.

All Australian quality mids cop and give a lot of physical punishment. They win contested footy at crucial moments in hot situations. They do it in the best company in finals.

The best Watts can hope for in my opinion is to become a quality outside ball user in the Isaac Smith mould. Isaac Smith isn't A-grade, but he has A-grade endurance. Watts has a way to go before he can run an opponent into the ground like Smith. Short, sharp bursts doesn't cut it for me, but I think Watts can continue to develop an engine.

Isaac Smith averaged 20 disposals per game and kicked nearly a goal a game. He also has a habit of kicking goals at critical times. Would I be happy if Watts developed into a similar quality mid ? Yep, I'd take that and it would be a handy acquisition.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

I have no hesitation in saying that I seriously doubt Watts will ever become an A-grade, or even seriously good mid.

All Australian quality mids cop and give a lot of physical punishment. They win contested footy at crucial moments in hot situations. They do it in the best company in finals.

Nick Dal Santo, Marc Murphy and Dale Thomas were all part of the 2011 AA side. I would not say they give a lot of physical punishment and all have probably been tainted as not being strong at the contested ball early in their careers. Hard to evaluate your last two points when he has rarely been in scenario 2 and hasn't been in scenario 3.

Not saying I expect him to reach these heights but I still don't think I can say he won't.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Nick Dal Santo, Marc Murphy and Dale Thomas were all part of the 2011 AA side. I would not say they give a lot of physical punishment and all have probably been tainted as not being strong at the contested ball early in their careers. Hard to evaluate your last two points when he has rarely been in scenario 2 and hasn't been in scenario 3.

Not saying I expect him to reach these heights but I still don't think I can say he won't.

Murphy has had one great year. His challenge is to get back there. He and Thomas don't hurt the opposition, but they put their noses over it.

Dal Santo is a good comparison. A high quality ball user, who has regularly averaged around the 25 disposals per game mark.

[DeeZee 7,397]

I have no hesitation in saying that I seriously doubt Watts will ever become an A-grade, or even seriously good mid.

All Australian quality mids cop and give a lot of physical punishment. They win contested footy at crucial moments in hot situations. They do it in the best company in finals.

The best Watts can hope for in my opinion is to become a quality outside ball user in the Isaac Smith mould. Isaac Smith isn't A-grade, but he has A-grade endurance. Watts has a way to go before he can run an opponent into the ground like Smith. Short, sharp bursts doesn't cut it for me, but I think Watts can continue to develop an engine.

Isaac Smith averaged 20 disposals per game and kicked nearly a goal a game. He also has a habit of kicking goals at critical times. Would I be happy if Watts developed into a similar quality mid ? Yep, I'd take that and it would be a handy acquisition.

Watts has A grade skills......we will see if he proves you wrong this year and brings A grade application to make the transformation complete.

[Machsy 2,858]

Murphy has had one great year. His challenge is to get back there. He and Thomas don't hurt the opposition, but they put their noses over it.

Dal Santo is a good comparison. A high quality ball user, who has regularly averaged around the 25 disposals per game mark.

Shifting the goalposts, are we?

I think your issue with Watts stems from you not judging him against current day mids and reality, but rather your own perception of what you want in the perfect mid ... and he will never live up to that.

Not every player, or every A-grade player puts their nose over the ball like Selwood or Hayes.

I see no reason why Watts can't be as effective as a Deledio, Thomas, Murphy or Dal Santo.

Dal Santo is a bloody good footballer too. If Watts turned out like him it'd be nothing to complain about.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Shifting the goalposts, are we?

I think your issue with Watts stems from you not judging him against current day mids and reality, but rather your own perception of what you want in the perfect mid... and he will never live up to that.

Not every player, or every A-grade player puts their nose over the ball like Selwood or Hayes.

I see no reason why Watts can't be as effective as a Deledio, Thomas, Murphy or Dal Santo.

Dal Santo is a bloody good footballer too. If Watts turned out like him it'd be nothing to complain about.

Murphy and Thomas go in hard for the footy. Not Selwood, Hayes, or Hodge hard, but hard nonetheless.

Watts makes Murphy look like a he-man.

And no, not all A-grade mids play like Selwood. Who has said otherwise ?

Watts is so lacking in the intensity stakes that I think many of you are delusional if you think he can become as good as Deledio, or even Dal Santo. Dal Santo finds the footy. Watts only finds the footy as a loose man in defence.

My "issue" with Watts is that he's not a good midfielder at AFL level. If he proves me "wrong" I'll be delirious.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Murphy and Thomas go in hard for the footy. Not Selwood, Hayes, or Hodge hard, but hard nonetheless. Watts makes Murphy look like a he-man. And no, not all A-grade mids play like Selwood. Who has said otherwise ? Watts is so lacking in the intensity stakes that I think many of you are delusional if you think he can become as good as Deledio, or even Dal Santo. Dal Santo finds the footy. Watts only finds the footy as a loose man in defence. My "issue" with Watts is that he's not a good midfielder at AFL level. If he proves me "wrong" I'll be delirious.

A delirious fool with everything else you've been saying.

Smart footballers can change habits. Dal Santo has never been hard in my eyes. Watts can easily learn how to cope with physical contact and put his body on the line when it's needed.

You're writing Watts off far too early, it's ridiculous. Delusional even, to use your word of choice. All we've needed is a glimpse of Watts playing with intensity and urgancy and we've seen it. Against Collingwood last year in the first quarter. He played like a different player and that was enough for me to have faith in him as a player to improve that specific area that will make or break him as a player. All we need is a coach who is renown for being the best player developer there is...

Oh that's right, we have him. Paul Roos.

[Hannibal 5,814]

A delirious fool with everything else you've been saying.

Smart footballers can change habits. Dal Santo has never been hard in my eyes. Watts can easily learn how to cope with physical contact and put his body on the line when it's needed.

You're writing Watts off far too early, it's ridiculous. Delusional even, to use your word of choice. All we've needed is a glimpse of Watts playing with intensity and urgancy and we've seen it. Against Collingwood last year in the first quarter. He played like a different player and that was enough for me to have faith in him as a player to improve that specific area that will make or break him as a player. All we need is a coach who is renown for being the best player developer there is...

Oh that's right, we have him. Paul Roos.

Don't get excited. It's just an opinion. Why do you care what I think ? I may not agree with all of your views either, but they don't offend me.

I've never seen anything in Watts' game to give me any confidence that he can seriously impact games and win 50/50 balls in the midfield. He's best out wide where he can use his skills. But that won't always cut it against the really good teams and those types of players are often quickly shut down.

You say Dal Santo "has never been hard in your eyes". He's never been hard in anyone's eyes. But he's been harder than Watts and has shown a great ability to find the footy in the midfield. If Watts has Dal Santo's career in the midfield I'll be ''delirious''.

[Damo 3,356]

Im surprised how many people think there will be more than a 10% improvement under Roos.

Footballers are like sausages, you can fry them, grill them, bake them, theyre still footballers.

Allan Jeans

The other issue I have is that nearly every other team is expecting a better year than last year.

Exceptions maybe Saints and Lions.

So we may need a 15 - 20% improvement to look like a real genesis.

If we can beat the Saints round one I, dont care if we lose the next 7 or 8.

So to do that we need our best side on the park.

We have paid $100,000 a game to Clark so far. GWS have better value out of Scully.

My message to MFC, is get him and Dawes on the ground for this game even if 90% fit.