Anyone who watched the A League game tonight with the Western Sydney Wanderers must agree. First season they made the grand final and tonight they had a sellout 18000 supporters who are incredibly passionate.

GWS will be a force in a few years time but the AFL has missed this golden opportunity to convert Sydney people to become AFL supporters. The Wanderers will be the biggest club in the A League very soon.

The harder it is for the GWS to succeed, the more draft picks and financial support they will receive while clubs like ours, Bulldogs and Nth Melbourne will be left to pick up the scraps!

Cannot agree more with this. Except for the odd bunch of idiots who just want to riot all the time, the WSW are excellent to watch when their crowd is going.

Did AFL miss out on an opportunity, or are the demographics of Western Sydney of people, families with soccer "in their blood" who will naturally go to soccer (and throw flares)?

In other words, has Dumbitriou in his bid to "leave a legacy" to match his megalomania actually stuffed up not the Western Sydney experience but rather stuffed up the (lower echelons of) AFL?

  On 11/01/2014 at 10:57, Yeats8 said:

Anyone who watched the A League game tonight with the Western Sydney Wanderers must agree. First season they made the grand final and tonight they had a sellout 18000 supporters who are incredibly passionate.

GWS will be a force in a few years time but the AFL has missed this golden opportunity to convert Sydney people to become AFL supporters. The Wanderers will be the biggest club in the A League very soon.

The harder it is for the GWS to succeed, the more draft picks and financial support they will receive while clubs like ours, Bulldogs and Nth Melbourne will be left to pick up the scraps!

Whilst I don't think the AFL has handled the formation of GWS well and have discussed on previous threads there really has been no golden opportunity. It's just going to be hard work and with some luck and planning the AFL will get some decent market share, it was never going to take the market by storm.

  On 11/01/2014 at 11:06, rjay said:

Whilst I don't think the AFL has handled the formation of GWS well and have discussed on previous threads there really has been no golden opportunity. It's just going to be hard work and with some luck and planning the AFL will get some decent market share, it was never going to take the market by storm.

Tend to agree with you rjay. It was always going to be a hard slog for the AFL in Western Sydney. And they can still achieve a reasonable slice of the market, but have to do it better or they will fail. Will take many years.

So the A league is getting 18000. Who are they competing against?

Certainly not the AFL. I don't see any games of footy being played at the moment.

The AFL has not missed the boat at all.

THE PEOPLE OF THAT AREA DON'T LIKE AFL. AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN IT. YOU DON'T NEED TO CONVERT THE WORLD TO YOUR RELIGION.

Get that into your thick head Andrew.
Geeze louise, it's just like the English crusades.

Yes it was going to be hard, but wow they really have made a mess of it early. Made it some kind of novelty act and the Giant's first two (Three? Four?) years in the game have been the stuff of comedy.

Jobe Watson's embarrassed shrug to the travelling Essendon fans when he missed the goal that would have put them 100 points in front sums up the year for Western Sydney. Possibly also with the side note that you could clearly hear each fan letting him know how 'bitterly disappointed' they were.

But, their stadium, if I recall correctly, is 100% club owned. Boutique-sized and not a bad set-up, they could be turning a tidy profit there with 15-25,000 crowds. Long term they should be helped out by the simple superiority of AFL over that hideous moron-ball thing they do in NSW.

As others have said, I don't think it is a case of the AFL missing the boat, it is more of the AFL thinking they could just plant a team near a large population and the crowds and support would follow. Not that simple, people in the west of Sydney are not interested in AFL, and it will take generations to win them over.

And for whoever is playing down the 18,000 crowd, you do realise that is capacity. They literally have not been able to grow the capacity of Parramatta Stadium quick enough to keep up with the juggernaut support of the Wanderers. Compare that to the huge amount of empty orange seats at Giants games. And only a fool would think that a few wins is the only difference.

Ever since they signed an unproven and inexperienced Tom Scully to a 5 year, 6 million dollar deal they were doomed.

Until the AFL can solve the problem of crowding around the ball and this rolling scrappy maul that footy has become it will never win over NEW converts to the game. We still love it because we have always loved footy but to the new observer AFL level football now just looks like seagulls fighting over a bag of chips.

Reduce rotations back to early 2000's levels (30-40 a game), spread the field out, bring back one on one contests and positional play and only then will there be any chance of converting fans from other codes

  On 11/01/2014 at 11:48, The Song Formerly Known As said:

THE PEOPLE OF THAT AREA DON'T LIKE AFL. AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN IT. YOU DON'T NEED TO CONVERT THE WORLD TO YOUR RELIGION.

Get that into your thick head Andrew.

Geeze louise, it's just like the English crusades.

The moment people start dying in the name of the AFL, then I'll join your side. Until then, why not let 'em discover how great our game is?

There's no doubting it has been a lacklustre start, but it remains a long term project. The AFL seem determined to help themselves to a portion of what is a sizeable market and I doubt any panic buttons are being pushed just yet. It is however going to be a long haul to win people over as it would seem they've barely made a ripple yet.

The Wanderers were always going to hit the ground running with the history of the region in the NSL etc, so it's not the fairest of comparisons. They have certainly breathed new life into the A League and good luck to them. Their fans are amazIng and the Giants would be well fortunate to attract fans with half of their passion and enthusiasm.

Tasmania has a rich AFL history, they deserved a side - but due to the game being based on money, Tassie don't get a side.

The game is just based around money, the draw is uneven and based on profits.

I hope GWS fail, all the coin the AFL wasted trying to prop this franchise up, they should've given Tassie a go.

It's alright to take the Tasmanians coin when Hawthorn play there. The AFL is a joke.

Soccer isn't prospering because it's a great sport, it's prospering because AFL has turned into nothing but a business and the public are looking for anything that remotely resembles a sport - and they've found soccer for the time being.

And im drunk, night.

  On 11/01/2014 at 13:39, hogans_heroes said:

Ever since they signed an unproven and inexperienced Tom Scully to a 5 year, 6 million dollar deal they were doomed

It is not so much them poaching Scully [who in the end we came out on top with Hogan] but the fact that so many drafts were heavily compromised by GWS [and GCS] denying the games [potential] elite players of those years the chance of playing with a decent club. In particular, the Demons were particularly impacted by this as they came onto the scene at a time when we would of otherwise had low [and priority] draft picks. In effect, they ensured that the dynasty of the Club's most powerful teams would continue to prevail by denying the cellar-dwellers the chance to equalise by improving their playing lists (the supposed primary reason of the draft system).

Leaving aside the aesthetics of the respective games, the FFA already had the historical advantage of a strong supporter base with a knowledge and appreciation of the sport. It consulted with and obtained strong support of local followers of the game and immediately went about building a squad of players that was not youth based like the Giants but rather, a team that's balanced in terms of experience, ability and background. The blueprint was perfect for the area and it clicked virtually from day one.

On the other hand, GWS was promoted differently. In many respects, it was a bit of a circus with Sheedy the showman spruiking the club, playfully antagonising the opposition and building a team that necessarily contained its share of freaks. I include Folau and Scully in that category. Despite seemingly unlimited funding and carte blanche in their ability to recruit players, they've failed to date to produce anything that represents a competitive side. The money that was spent on Folau and Scully could have bought them three or four experienced players who would have been invaluable in helping its youth component to settle in and be properly educated in the early years of their development. This hasn't been happening although obviously, some of the talented young players will come to the fore anyway and, with Leon Cameron now at the helm, they have started to get serious in this area.

The problem is that the Giants are now definitely the poorer relation in a crowded market. Years ago, our game lost Canberra to the NRL because we lacked vision and foresight. I think we've just made it harder to crack Sydney's western suburbs because we were arrogant and thought it would just happen. When people refer to football out there, they're talking Wanderers and not Giants.

Melbourne has just one NRL side because there is just enough interest to support it. The AFL should have done the same in Sydney. The Swans do well to draw the crowds they do but I would estimate that 30% of those people have little knowledge about the game, the players and see it more as day/night of socialising then actually watching the footy. The Tasmanian government was prepared to come on board as their major sponsor, plus giving them the luxury of their own boutique stadium they couldn't do any worse than GWS. The AFL rest with the knowledge even if they shaft Tassie it will always be an AFL state.

I seem to remember similar things were said when the Swans went to Sydney, and the Bear/Lions went to Brisbane. Remember the farse with the pink helicopter, and edelston's first trophy wife were the means to get publicity, any publicity, for AFL in the totally uninterested Sydney Press. Today, having lived in Sydney for five years, there are some of the most fanatical AFL people I know, most also NRL and A-league supporters. They have though largely drawn their support from the wealthy North Shore and Eastern Suburbs. They tend to fall flat when they play out at the Olympic stadium at Homebush in the middle of the Western Suburbs.

I think it will be harder for GWS because the NRL regard Western Sydney as their heartland, which goes well with the mindless antics of their bogan star players. Western Sydney, along with Northern Queensland (also central bogan country) is where the NRL draws most of it support and will throw everything at its defense.

My contention is not about going there, but I don't think they have been particularly smart it the way they have gone about it. With the exception of Tom Scully (who would fit neatly into a bogan environment anywhere) I don't think their choice of their public figures fits the mode. Kevin Sheedy, although has some bogan characteristics, is somehow "too Melbourne". Anyone who has seen the Channel 9 Sydney sports reporters with Rugby League affiliations will know what I mean - mostly brainless and totally insensitive. It would be better to recruit a few of them as sprukers for GWS than to spend the millions on Israel Folau who was not suited to the game and did not have the necessary expansive, brainless personality which goes down so well in those parts.

  On 11/01/2014 at 21:20, Al said:

Melbourne has just one NRL side because there is just enough interest to support it. The AFL should have done the same in Sydney. The Swans do well to draw the crowds they do but I would estimate that 30% of those people have little knowledge about the game, the players and see it more as day/night of socialising then actually watching the footy. The Tasmanian government was prepared to come on board as their major sponsor, plus giving them the luxury of their own boutique stadium they couldn't do any worse than GWS. The AFL rest with the knowledge even if they shaft Tassie it will always be an AFL state.

Tasmania does not expand the AFL product. It is all about the economics of sports broadcasting, and that is all about viewer eyeballs. Tasmania does nothing for that, but the Swans in Sydney, the Lions in Brisbane, and GCS on the Gold Coast have been largely responsible for a five fold increase in broadcasting rights dollars in the last 10-15 years. GWS admittedly is the biggest gamble, but I have no doubt they will see value there eventually out of further increased broadcasting rights.

  On 11/01/2014 at 22:36, Dees2014 said:

Tasmania does not expand the AFL product. It is all about the economics of sports broadcasting, and that is all about viewer eyeballs. Tasmania does nothing for that, but the Swans in Sydney, the Lions in Brisbane, and GCS on the Gold Coast have been largely responsible for a five fold increase in broadcasting rights dollars in the last 10-15 years. GWS admittedly is the biggest gamble, but I have no doubt they will see value there eventually out of further increased broadcasting rights.

i understand what your saying but if someone in Sydney doesn't want to watch AFL, whether it's live on tv, live at a stadium or being played in their backyard they won't watch it. In Sydney every Swans and GWS game is on free to air. A lot of GWS games are on 7mate. Surely a company paying for their ad to be aired in a specified time slot would have access to the number of viewers expected, plus the possibility of paying less then you would if their ad was airing on channel 7. Then if the extra money made has to be automatically pumped back into the club to prop it up the AFL will forever be chasing their tale.

If Tasmania were the 18th club with a 25 thousand seat stadium they would less of a burden to the AFL than GWS ever will.

Big difference in the sporting culture between Victoria and NSW, only two teams in NSW, abysmal attendances, a large amount of tickets are actually handouts, Sheedy, Scully family, Israel Foollyou, arena built in the middle of nowhere, may as well set up an AFL reality cooking show, would have been more popular.

Yeah, more people are going to see a game they like and play than the one they don't like and have little exposure to.

There's a shock.

Those in charge wanted to grow the game, what would you do if you were in charge?

AFL needs to get into the schools in West Sydney and promote the game at grass roots level. It will take years of pushing the indigenous game before they see any success. If the kids get into it, the parents will follow. The GWS circus hasn't done much to make an impact, been poorly approached so far.

  On 11/01/2014 at 11:06, rjay said:

Whilst I don't think the AFL has handled the formation of GWS well and have discussed on previous threads there really has been no golden opportunity. It's just going to be hard work and with some luck and planning the AFL will get some decent market share, it was never going to take the market by storm.

schools out the gs are 1 year behind GCSuns in age & the GCSuns only showed up last season. the Suns are on their way now.

I expect the giants to slowly ramp it up this year, as Kev 'babysitter' Sheeds has finished in the nursery, & the new headmaster has now taken the chair. the kids will have to show something this year. & I think they will.

the slow cook method is tried & true.

people committed to the giants will go thru the teething phase with the club, & will really appreciate the hard work to grow the club, in the hardest demographic in this land.

Lets have this discussion at the end of this season.

  On 11/01/2014 at 23:34, Moonshadow said:

AFL needs to get into the schools in West Sydney and promote the game at grass roots level. It will take years of pushing the indigenous game before they see any success. If the kids get into it, the parents will follow. The GWS circus hasn't done much to make an impact, been poorly approached so far.

Pretty sure they are doing this and this has been the AFL's go all along - thye knew this would be a 2-3 decade operation and are targeting the kids who will be their future customers rather than the adults who are already rusted on soccer/rugby followers.