Neeld made a lot of mistakes, but this wasn't one of them

[nutbean 8,838]

He had a knee reco when he was drafted and has played up on and off since. It will continue untill end of his career. Thats a fact.

No...its your opinion. ( unless of course you are his doctor and breaking parent/doctor confidentiality)

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Hogan, Clark, Dawes and Terlich, are clear evidence that Neeld did more things right.

"we overpaid dawes" well we have to pay out the salary cap anyway, which is why front ended contracts for both Clark and Dawes were great ideas, and left us with money to bring in mids this year.

He did make necessary list management choices, and whilst the older players didnt really work out last year, it was not about on field performance but rather off field leadership and training techniques.

Sure Neeld did a lot of things wrong, but he also has helped provide the list with a great forward line and indirectly was involved with being able to create cash and room on the list for the midfield recruits we were able to get this year. It was a shame that last year players of cross and vinces quality werent available and even potentially michie because he knew we needed bigger bodies but the problem was the player availability was poor. but yes, ultimately neeld did alot of things wrong but also has provided our club with the basis of hopefully a very very competitive team that will play finals in years to come

Hogan, Clark, Dawes and Terlich, are clear evidence that Neeld did more things right.

"we overpaid dawes" well we have to pay out the salary cap anyway, which is why front ended contracts for both Clark and Dawes were great ideas, and left us with money to bring in mids this year.

He did make necessary list management choices, and whilst the older players didnt really work out last year, it was not about on field performance but rather off field leadership and training techniques.

Sure Neeld did a lot of things wrong, but he also has helped provide the list with a great forward line and indirectly was involved with being able to create cash and room on the list for the midfield recruits we were able to get this year. It was a shame that last year players of cross and vinces quality werent available and even potentially michie because he knew we needed bigger bodies but the problem was the player availability was poor. but yes, ultimately neeld did alot of things wrong but also has provided our club with the basis of hopefully a very very competitive team that will play finals in years to come

Hold on! Peterson,Gillies,Byrnes. In a large bunch of recruits even you would get some right!

[dazzledavey36 53,433]

No...its your opinion. ( unless of course you are his doctor and breaking parent/doctor confidentiality)

No actually it is a fact.

Been friends with a Collingwood player up my way since high school and I think everyone knows who that is anyway.. When I drilled him about Dawes when we recruited him, One thing he said he had a Knee issue that he had to manage while at Collingwood and continue to do so while he was with us. Like I said he had a knee reco when he was drafted and missed his first full year. Ever since then he has had to manage it properly.

[nutbean 8,838]

No actually it is a fact.

Been friends with a Collingwood player up my way since high school and I think everyone knows who that is anyway.. When I drilled him about Dawes when we recruited him, One thing he said he had a Knee issue that he had to manage while at Collingwood and continue to do so while he was with us. Like I said he had a knee reco when he was drafted and missed his first full year. Ever since then he has had to manage it properly.

and like every knee reco - some players make full recoveries and it doesnt hinder them and some dont . Knee reco players do have their knees managed but lots have no problems playing out their careers with little to no interruption . So your initial comment that his knee will play up until the end of his career is opinion not fact.

edit - if you are saying he will have to manage his knee until the end of his career then that is a different statement.

Edited November 21, 2013 by nutbean

[rpfc 28,084]

He had a knee reco when he was drafted and has played up on and off since. It will continue untill end of his career. Thats a fact.

And thats why if he continues to improve. Fitzy has massive upside. He all proved to us that this year.

Why couldnt he take the next level up and take Dawes position? He has already improved his contested marking, something Dawes struggles to do overhead..

Then I guess he was able to manage it well enough to help Collingwood win a flag.

Dawes would be a better contested marker than Fitzpatrick. They are both shaded by Clark, and I believe Hogan, but it is Dawes' frame that I see as very fortunate to have next to The Franchise (Hogan) while he is in his first few years.

And of Dawes and Fitzpatrick, one is far more proven than the other. I don't see it happening. I don't think Fitz can do what I would be asking Dawes to do.

[Satyriconhome 10,436]

No actually it is a fact.

Been friends with a Collingwood player up my way since high school and I think everyone knows who that is anyway.. When I drilled him about Dawes when we recruited him, One thing he said he had a Knee issue that he had to manage while at Collingwood and continue to do so while he was with us. Like I said he had a knee reco when he was drafted and missed his first full year. Ever since then he has had to manage it properly.

He didn't miss all of his first year, I remember watching him play in the VFL, he was out for 2007, don't think he had it reco'd, probably what Kent has now, an injury that won't settle down, anyway, told me he has had an op, coz they found a problem, and it is fixed now, had been for a bike ride when I saw him, nice bike as well and his, so it doesn't hinder that...don't think the hyperextension he got at Collingwood did his knee any favours....perhaps whatever the issue with the knee was, was being masked, now it isn't and it's fixed

[dazzledavey36 53,433]

and like every knee reco - some players make full recoveries and it doesnt hinder them and some dont . Knee reco players do have their knees managed but lots have no problems playing out their careers with little to no interruption . So your initial comment that his knee will play up until the end of his career is opinion not fact.

The fact is he has been told to manage it throughout his career as it is a degenerated knee problem and continue to play up here and there (which already is) is not my opinion but fact.

My opinion is he wil struggle to ever play 22 games in a season. And if he does someone bump this thread up and il bake a big fat sloppy Humble Pie...

[Roger Mellie 3,903]

No actually it is a fact.

Been friends with a Collingwood player up my way since high school and I think everyone knows who that is anyway.. When I drilled him about Dawes when we recruited him, One thing he said he had a Knee issue that he had to manage while at Collingwood and continue to do so while he was with us. Like I said he had a knee reco when he was drafted and missed his first full year. Ever since then he has had to manage it properly.

Happy to verify this for you DD

[Mad_Melbourne 873]

Hold on! Peterson,Gillies,Byrnes. In a large bunch of recruits even you would get some right!

Pederson is decent for back up (will be better than troy davis was, and will play if frawley or t-mac get injured), and Byrnes fits a niche in the fact we have very few small forwards.

The point I was making, was he addressed the issue that we needed older players around the club, which we lacked, more so for training than for game play! Whilst rodan, gillies and sellar were all pretty much failures, he turned over the list quickly and has put us in a much better position than we would have been this year, had he not.

The fact of the matter is, we did not have a competitive team, we did not have a competitive midfield and as i said, if it were a year where he could have picked up decent midfilders from the free agent period then we would have been sold! but he made the tough calls on list management and brought in players who will be pivotal to our finals success, but as anyone he also had some screw ups

[Satyriconhome 10,436]

I logged on to reply to a post and it has gone?

Anyway I am going from memory seeing Dawes play VFL, not research

For a guy who weighs in at over 100K his knee has got him pounding around for 80 odd games

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

So what could have been an interesting discussion on captaincy has "degenerated" into a discussion about the "facts" about Chris Dawes knee, something Nedld must have known nothing about but a certain Dr Reid was all over.

Yawn

[Rob Mac...... 638]

Only if it could be done without hurting Grimes, I'd pick Jones & Garland as co-captains next year. Both cut it on-field and Garlands excellent public speaking should be used to save Jones wasting his time ever thinking about that. We shouldn't want anything to change or distract Jones from his excellent playing, the way he's been going. [Players play badly the day after guesting on the footy show because they focused on the show]

Yeah Dawes speaks well, but did people notice Fitzy kicked almost twice as many goals per game played as Dawes last season?

[rpfc 28,084]

Only if it could be done without hurting Grimes, I'd pick Jones & Garland as co-captains next year. Both cut it on-field and Garlands excellent public speaking should be used to save Jones wasting his time ever thinking about that. We shouldn't want anything to change or distract Jones from his excellent playing, the way he's been going. [Players play badly the day after guesting on the footy show because they focused on the show]

Yeah Dawes speaks well, but did people notice Fitzy kicked almost twice as many goals per game played as Dawes last season?

Well, if we did our comprehension skills would be lacking:

Fitz 15 goals in 11 games.

Dawes 12 goals in 12 games.

Dawes also managed 20 more marks than Fitz.

[Rob Mac...... 638]

^^ Point taken rpfc, 36.36% more goals really isn't "almost twice as many"! My memory was off. I'd still vote Garland (over Dawes) for co-captain

[Machsy 2,858]

I have no doubt he is a ripping bloke, speaks well, loves the club and wants the best for the MFC, but I'm speaking as a footballer myself.

I have never really seen him throw his over the footy just to make sure he made a contest of it, pick up a bloke off the ground and get him going again. I haven't seen him drag everyone over when they were down and really get them to lift.

This club needs a leader on the ground who wont put up with the [censored] that has been dished up for the last 5 years and will go out of his way to make everyone around him better. We need a bloke that will do something extraordinary and look back at the others and say that's how we want to do it. That is the kind of bloke players want at front.

Chris Dawes just doesn't seem like that bloke.

Disconnect from reality.

Do we have anyone who is this bloke..?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,664]

The fact is he has been told to manage it throughout his career as it is a degenerated knee problem and continue to play up here and there (which already is) is not my opinion but fact.

My opinion is he wil struggle to ever play 22 games in a season. And if he does someone bump this thread up and il bake a big fat sloppy Humble Pie...

Very few players consistently play 22 games per season. I believe we had two last season (Jones x 2) but happy to be corrected if I've got this wrong.

[P-man 13,366]

Can not agree with the OP.

I don't think Grimes was necessarily a bad choice, but Trenners is pretty much indefensible. Appointing the youngest captain in the game's history during such a crucial period, was just plainly stupid, both for the team but equally as importantly for his own development. He is a big part of the club's future.

If you want to talk alternaitve options, take your pick. Grimes on his own, or co-captain options of Jones, Garland, Frawley..

I think the vast majority on here are well and truly over the Neeld bashing though, and I say that as one of his biggest critics.

[Slartibartfast 16,968]

Rono if you really believe this you've lost it.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

The fact is he has been told to manage it throughout his career as it is a degenerated knee problem and continue to play up here and there (which already is) is not my opinion but fact.

My opinion is he wil struggle to ever play 22 games in a season. And if he does someone bump this thread up and il bake a big fat sloppy Humble Pie...

That's a bold statement DD36 (not)

How many really fit players will play 22 games let alone those with niggling injuries.

Not too many I would guess.

I would be quite happy if he played 16 games

[dazzledavey36 53,433]

That's a bold statement DD36 (not)

How many really fit players will play 22 games let alone those with niggling injuries.

Not too many I would guess.

I would be quite happy if he played 16 games

Nathan Jones?

[jabberwocky 2,301]

And vice versa.

Fitzpatrick may well end up the more valuable player.

[wretched.sylph 164]

comparing Jones and Dawes is an apple/orange thing. Dawes is a KPF, and KPFs are more injury-prone than nuggetty little centremen.

but does it matter? Dawes played 12 games in a really bad year. He's tracking well at the moment and it's fair to think he will play a lot more games this coming year.

i do wish people would stop goal-counting to measure Dawes's performance. i don't think that's a fair way to judge him. with Dawes, more than any other player i can think of, one must consider the things he does which don't pull stats. as an example: i once saw him sprint (well, lumber quickly) from pocket to opposite flank to cover an unmarked player, he made a contest and spoiled the mark, held the ball up on the ground, without taking posession, until backup arrived, then punched the ball out and into the path of a team-mate who delivered the goal-assist pass. no stat for Dawes, but it was his work that made the goal. it's just an example, but i think it shows something of the kind of player he is. it's also important to reflect on Cloak's performance with and without Dawes in front of him (no stats for creating space for fellow forwards). and in relation to the goal-scoring comparison between him and Fitzpatrick, let's not forget how many goals were pinched from Dawes by team-mates (Dawes gets free kick in goal-square, Davey plays on, etc), there were lots of 'em (and i admired his attitude towards this: all goals are team goals).

finally,

I have never really seen him throw his over the footy just to make sure he made a contest of it, pick up a bloke off the ground and get him going again. I haven't seen him drag everyone over when they were down and really get them to lift.

are we watching the same game? because i see Dawes doing those things every time he plays.

he is a good choice for captain, but i won't care if he doesn't get the gig.

i would personally love to see McKenzie made captain (though i am very confident that it won't happen). because of this:

25 disposals, 10 clearances, 8 tackles.

his stats from 186. Jordie McKenzie never ever gives up.

Edited November 21, 2013 by wretched.sylph

[jumbo returns 6,715]

Neeld had the ideas, but not the skill set to apply them - his militant approach didn't work, especially as he didn't really have the runs on the board.

Doesn't stop so many posters pounce on his picked carcass and other posters that are bordering on pathos, click 'like', at every opportunity.

[TGR 1,367]

Rono if you really believe this you've lost it.

Fan, you never thought I had it in the first place.

[rpfc 28,084]

And vice versa.

Fitzpatrick may well end up the more valuable player.

Yes, but if Watts is being pushed out of that Forward Line than Fitz will find it hard to fit there too.

Someone needs to sacrifice their game and attract the footy and smash, and get smashed, and that is the selfless role Dawes can do. Clark and Hogan can do it to, but I don't want them to - and this leads us to the issue of what do you want the forward line to look like and can it function well.

I think it functions better with Dawes.