Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[beelzebub 23,383]

I sense this is all about timing. Im sure WADA/ASADA will strike when its most advantageous and crippling to Essendon to do so.

You know the ol saying : dont give a sucker an ever break !! Why telegraph your ammunition ?

The more the cheats know the better they can prepare so why play into their hand ?

[John Dee 445]

My first post in this thread, I think.

ASADA did not issue an interim report. The media at large and people here should realise that. The report they issued was at the end of the joint inquiry by the AFL and ASADA and related only to the matters governable by the AFL. The empty statements by Essendon and the like claiming vindication that no drug allegations were present in the report were just fluff as there was never going to be any.

The AFL used the report to punish Essendon for it's appalling governance as this was something that ASADA could not do. ASADA then carried on with the inquiry into illegal drug use on it's own.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I know what you mean Bb but it seems right now they only thing going for them is sympathy of the public, If ASADA played their hand with some of their evidence they could crush all public support and get people wanting them punished and labelling them as cheats

[beelzebub 23,383]

Mike . The public in general are sick of Essendons arrogance and lack or remorse. More so they ( the public ) arent the ones running the trial.

ASADA knows the game. If i was a betting man ( sometimes...lol ) Im going to suggest Little and Co will end up wishing theyd NEVER gone near a Court.

Theyre playing with dynamite. That they DONT currently know what they're really up against should have been ominous. They seem far too smug for such sense.

[old dee 23,880]

I have a number of friends who are loosing interest in the AFL ( I include myself in that group )

There are two main reasons

- The way the game looks

- This debacle with Essendon and sundry events.

I am just so tried of the whole thing and it shows every indication of going on for some time yet perhaps even years.

For God sake can we get to the end please I am so tired of it.

[nrc73 77]

Mike . The public in general are sick of Essendons arrogance and lack or remorse. More so they ( the public ) arent the ones running the trial.

ASADA knows the game. If i was a betting man ( sometimes...lol ) Im going to suggest Little and Co will end up wishing theyd NEVER gone near a Court.

Theyre playing with dynamite. That they DONT currently know what they're really up against should have been ominous. They seem far too smug for such sense.

Paul Little is no small fry. Toll Holdings is a massive company to be CEO of. I would wager he knows more about politics & strategy than anyone down at the AFL. Toll Annual Revenue is at least 10 times that of the AFL, and from experience I know Toll has had a very aggressive culture.

That ASADA is just "kicking back, waiting for the right moment" I find hard to believe.The longer they go on the more expensive this is for everyone, including the AFL, unless of course ASADA just like to squeeze every dollar out of their clients.

If ASADA came out 6 months after interviews with 'show cause' notices, I might believe they were playing the smart game, but not after 18 months along with whole "No Fault/Negligence" thing. It looked desperate.

Agree with old dee. Many people being turned off AFL by this rubbish.Only thing to do is release all information & charge EFC.

[beelzebub 23,383]

I dont take Little for a mug, but hes not in his own backyard so to speak here.

Why wouldnt ASADA waiti for the correct moment. To do otherwise is just foolhardy and amateurish. WADA will be helping the locals out here with how its done. Dont think theyve lost one yet .

ASADA isnt the desperate one here. Hird in #1 and EFC close 2nd. They are clawing at technicalities and ASADA itself...strange theyve never actually denied the wrongdoing, just the nature of it.

They keep wanting the evidence ( supposedly) but are trying to derail it.

ASADA only want to bring cheats to answer..thats all

[Whispering_Jack 30,753]

I sense this is all about timing. Im sure WADA/ASADA will strike when its most advantageous and crippling to Essendon to do so.

You know the ol saying : dont give a sucker an ever break !! Why telegraph your ammunition ?

The more the cheats know the better they can prepare so why play into their hand ?

That's the gist of it because in its desperation to avoid any responsibility EFC is creating a noose for itself and its players.

Meanwhile ... the clink of cash registers as the money for lawyers keeps rolling in.

James Hird accuses ASADA of briefing AFL early over interim Essendon report

James Hird attacks ASADA over rights and says show-cause notices are void

I don't think much of Hird's case.

[daisycutter 29,756]

as tedious and boring as it is asada have a process to follow and will stick to it

[PaulRB 6,411]

I like the fact that the climax of ASADA push and the EFC's decision on James Hird's reappointment as coach are staring to align.

I reckon losing Bomber Thompson to a decision to rehire Jimmy followed by ASADA revelations that make Jimmy's position untenable (i.e. many players issued with infraction notices) would be the perfect storm...

Be happy to have Bomber at the Dees next year.

[jazza 1,323]

I like the fact that the climax of ASADA push and the EFC's decision on James Hird's reappointment as coach are staring to align.

I reckon losing Bomber Thompson to a decision to rehire Jimmy followed by ASADA revelations that make Jimmy's position untenable (i.e. many players issued with infraction notices) would be the perfect storm...

Celebration time right here.

Wow,wouldnt those cards falling that way be just a journalistic orgasm and a dees supporters moment of clarity.

[biggestred 5,148]

Dont want anyone from that club near ours. Ever.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

That's the gist of it because in its desperation to avoid any responsibility EFC is creating a noose for itself and its players.

Meanwhile ... the clink of cash registers as the money for lawyers keeps rolling in.

James Hird accuses ASADA of briefing AFL early over interim Essendon report

James Hird attacks ASADA over rights and says show-cause notices are void

I don't think much of Hird's case.

screams of desperation to me

[jnrmac 20,189]

That's the gist of it because in its desperation to avoid any responsibility EFC is creating a noose for itself and its players.

Meanwhile ... the clink of cash registers as the money for lawyers keeps rolling in.

James Hird accuses ASADA of briefing AFL early over interim Essendon report

James Hird attacks ASADA over rights and says show-cause notices are void

I don't think much of Hird's case.

News Corp have spent GBP270m defending the phone hacking charges. Essendon won't be far behind by the time they are finished. They'll be wiped out,

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I like the fact that the climax of ASADA push and the EFC's decision on James Hird's reappointment as coach are staring to align.

I reckon losing Bomber Thompson to a decision to rehire Jimmy followed by ASADA revelations that make Jimmy's position untenable (i.e. many players issued with infraction notices) would be the perfect storm...

Be happy to have Bomber at the Dees next year.

i was speaking to my nephew today who is a big dons fan and i said don't rule out Saint Sheedy coming back to try and get them back up and running after they are destroyed by their own stupidity

[beelzebub 23,383]

screams of desperation to me

Of course it is.

And worse Golden boy still thinks he's in the right

[monoccular 17,595]

I like the fact that the climax of ASADA push and the EFC's decision on James Hird's reappointment as coach are staring to align.

I reckon losing Bomber Thompson to a decision to rehire Jimmy followed by ASADA revelations that make Jimmy's position untenable (i.e. many players issued with infraction notices) would be the perfect storm...

Be happy to have Bomber at the Dees next year.

Dont want anyone from that club near ours. Ever.

Not so sure either - he comes across as pretty smug, and there must surely be questions of his own involvement in the whole cheating saga.

[daisycutter 29,756]

Of course it is.

And worse Golden boy still thinks he's in the right

it's a big river in egypt bub - lol

[beelzebub 23,383]

WJ or another kind Beagle

As I understand it currently ASADA wouldnt disclose anything now anyway as it ( the procedure ) is possibly akin to a train on a track running to a timetable with various stations along the way.

My understanding is a "call only stop" might be Mediation but if nothing goes there then the next station is "Discovery/Disclosure" ?? and only then would ASADA deign to present what it will proceed with.

Any other action would only serve to jeopardise ASADAS process ?

[Whispering_Jack 30,753]

G'day Bub,

I assume you're referring to the current action brought by EFC and Hird. I believe mediation is unlikely although the Judge did make the suggestion (which they usually do). The parties know that a mediated result is unlikely so they won't be wasting their time and money on a worthless exercise that would otherwise cost in the tens of thousands.

Discovery of documents would be limited to those documents relevant to what the Applicants are claiming so I don't expect that ASADA would release the meat and bones of its case.

Whilst the proceedings are playing out, the show-cause notices are on hold so ASADA is not obliged to give the players any details of the evidence they have against them and I don't expect anything to be forthcoming until the trial on 11-13/8.

If the application fails, (and the decision could be handed down on the spot or more likely, a week or two at best after it ends) the show cause notice period of (now) 14 days will start running and by the time infraction notices are issued the season will be over.

With that, will be gone any opportunity for the players to cop the supposed 6 months on offer and serve it in the second half of season 2014 which was apparently available when the show-causes were first issued. Best case scenario is that players would probably have to stand out till mid season 2015, worst case that they could cop 2 years.

I expect that if the Federal Court action fails, it won't be long before some of the players cave in and Dank and Hird are likely to get infraction notices and they will go as well.

But by then, infraction notices may well be Dank's least concern.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Thanks WJ

[Whispering_Jack 30,753]

I hope this isn't too old hat but I got around to watching Sunday's ABC Offsiders presented by Gerrard Whateley with panelists Waleed Aly, John Harms and Roy Masters and I must admit the discussion became a little too high brow for me once they embedded themselves in a discussion on Albert Camus and existentialism. Pity, because the discussion about the happenings in the World Cup was quite absorbing.

However, I was struck by a comment made by the host about Louis Suarez to the effect that "you can't help a man with a problem if he won't admit he has the problem".

Too right I reckon and Whateley should listen to his own advice because he truly has lost the plot with his cheerleading for the Essendon cause on the doping issue.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Albert Camus....not so much the Offsiders as Outsiders !!

[Whispering_Jack 30,753]

James Hird Statement of Claim

Coming from someone who always claimed he was eager for the truth to come out, this doesn't sit well. I don't see a great deal of merit in this and although we also need to know what ASADA is going to say in response, I have the Applicants well down early - say by about 15 points at the first break.

[biggestred 5,148]

got a question for you WJ.

hirdy is upset that he was made to answer questions by the AFL investigators and wasnt allowed his right to silence because if he did he would have been punished anyway - surely this would have come under the AFL rules and not common law?

the same way that the tribunal can impose its own punishments as opposed to common law? (ie 2 weeks for striking and not in jail for assault).

and IF SO - he would have had to agree to be bound by those rules at some stage, correct?

as a side note - when i register for local soccer as a player/coach/volunteer i have to click a box online that says that i agree to the rules of the competition and code of conduct...

The move came as suspended Bombers coach James Hird yesterday declared players and officials were robbed of the right to stay silent during interviews with AFL and Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority investigators.

In documents lodged with the Federal Court, Hird claimed the Bombers should have been afforded “the common law right against self-incrimination”.

Instead, Hird says, players and officials were “under threat of censure and sanction” from the AFL if they did not “answer every question asked”.

Edited July 1, 2014 by biggestred