POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Generation dee 1,336]

G'day.

As I said earlier, ill post my views. I haven't read stats or anyone else's posts, but here goes.

This weekend I took the Missus down the coast, and I said to her that if we didn't produce a heart felt effort, with intent and desire, after the week (18months) of anti-neeld, then I will jump ship and support the "it's time to go mark neeld" thread.

I watched the first quarter thinking we were the team in contention for top 8 and collingwood were bound for the draft. We chased, harrased and tackled in numbers. When we got the footy in space, we looked infinite more damaging and likely. What cost us was 2 posters, and blease missing close by- 1.5 instead of 4.2. You can not understand the importance of scoreboard pressure when we play a team above us, especially when 1-9.

The second quarter started very similar, we were all over them but they grappled a goal or 2 against the play. Dawes missed the shot from 50 out and they made us pay directly after. The thing that cost us during the second term, was going forward and instead of kicking from the wing to CHF unopposed, we threw the ball around nf got ourselves in trouble. We then turned a uncontested possession going forward 70 from goal, into a fumbled, rushed kick 50 out that went straight to a 2 on 1 or worse, and watts/fitzy etc were sheperded out and a filth player took a mark and played on down the line unopposed, resulting in a pressure free disposal straight at a filth forward. I'm not sure if they kicked 7 or 8 for the quarter, but every one of those goals came direct from our inefficiency going forward. Again, you can not measure the way that those turnovers kill morale of our players going forward. The umpires definitely hurt us with some soft frees going the filths way, and failing to reciprocate our way, but that said, the inability of several forward passes destroy any team confidence more that anything.

The 3rd started with Dawes subbed out, and with that, any attacking mindset we had. We had fitzy and watts across the forward half, but we looked more dangerous going forward with facey, rodan and blease. Again, team motel was offsides by our structure breaking down, but also the ease on which collingfilth penetrated our midfield on the counter. I would hate to see a "score from turnover" stat as I feel we gifted 6-10 goals from this alone.

The last quarter, cloke got some junk, and we stopped, basically from sheer exhaustion and despair. Dunn had 5 disposals in about 3 minutes, all of which turned into collingwood scoring shots. The worst thing, is instead of putting his hand up and saying "sorry boys, poor kick" he waved his arms at our midfielders and blames them for it. It's frustrating as he is a good kick, but he doesn't look at where he is kicking whatsoever!!!!! And to blame guys In the centre is a cop out, probably further depleting morale.

My summary of all this probably reeks of blame. But if you are on top and playing with confidence in a quarter, you MUST make the most of your shots on goal. First quarter we were a 5 goal better team, yet went in to break with scores level. The second quarter, those same traits came to play, but collingwood took their chances early, and went up 4 goals. After half time is all irrelevant, we were out played but most importantly, we were out structured through injuries and personnel.

Positives-

garland smashed cloke, and t-mac made lynch look 40. He is a poor kick Tom, but he is athletic, offensive and loves defending. Keep with him as he is a great option across half back and will be damaging when we a-learn to receive his handbills, or b- kicks off 3 steps.

Rodan, davey, blease and Kent. I don't know their stats, but their pressure made collingwood fumble and panic early. Inferred pressure I think it's called, and they definitely put it on early.

Watts- such a waste. Not his talent, but the way he leads early at the footy, and we kick it 28m to him, but 40m high. Ill admit, I'm not a huge watts fan, as I expected more, but we do him no favours by kicking the footy to him high and wide when he leads to good position. Classic example in the 2nd quarter on the hff, we stuffed around and instead of kicking direct, he got an under pressure bounce pass from 30m away. When he was on 2 opponents. We are doing his footy smarts no favours. He actually hit the body hard today, and I feel that we are a good team going forward with him as our 3rd or 4th option. He hit the post early and had another miss by a bees foreskin, he could've had 2 at 1/4 time.

Matt jones, toumpas, Howe, Sylvia and Nate jones- these are our midfielders, add viney and grimes, as well as this years additions. These guys use the footy well and run to great position. The trouble is, our skills and our decision making prior to getting it in their hands!!!! If anyone saw Sylvia run to position ahead of fitzy today, but fitzy hit him with a hand pass 1m behind him, you will know why he isn't a top line player. He ran to the right spot, he got offensive and we just burnt him. That said, he put great pressure on and got to some dangerous spots. Nate jones deserved 5 frees minimum, but he got burnt by being the guy chasing the footy and going harder than all of the filth mids. He is a star, but also, a work horse who does not sulk or change his game on. By the scoreboard.

Ill mention trengove, as I think he is playing well. But he is slightly burnt by his own limitations- pace, first option giving and disposal inside f60. But he is a player, and if we can get him a yard quicker, or get him out of the rotations and keep him kicking forward, he will come good.

Pederson was ok, gives a few frees away, but depth player...

Negatives- ruck- jamar was all over jolly, yet he mistimes his run, or palmed it straight to a filth jumper!!!! So frustrating. We need him to demand the ball around ground as we need the target with no Dawes Clark or marking midfielder without Howe lurking.

Mckenzie, tries hard, but he leaves us a player down offensively.

Turnovers and decision making are our biggest killer. We run to great spots, yet the player with the ball tries too much, or kicks to a 2-1 and spoils it, and our opposition runs forward while we are offensively positioned and it just kills us. You can't let teams get an uncontested possession in our back half when we are on the march, they score so easily. This isn't a coaching problem, this is a football problem- dont kick off one step, leaning backwards, don't handball 2m to your defensive side to a player shepherding- if you have the ball and under pressure- KICK THE BLOODY THING LONG, High and put the defender under pressure!!!!!!!

We are on the right track. Add frawley, Clark, Dawes, grimes, viney and another midfielder and a small forward, as well as a good kicking medium defender, we are on the right track. The tv doesn't give the right indicators, we were the better team in first half, we came to play, we chased and pressured. But, we just showed inexperience and decision making errors.

[DemonOX 8,779]

I thought Mark covered it well in the Presser when he said "Our Playing List is our Playing List".

This is the new " it is what it is" statement Champ.

[Hardnut 327]

I thought Mark covered it well in the Presser when he said "Our Playing List is our Playing List".

This was after he'd admitted certain players should be running out in the VFL but that we didn't have that luxury.

Not sure if he was talking about older players not up to it or the young guys short on the blessed experience.

He was probably talking about the so-called experienced players he brought into the Club!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

My jumping the shark moment today was a 3rd quarter kick in. Dunn waving his arms like its some sort of set play. Kicks to himself, runs another 10m metres and proceeds to kick it straight over the head of every single one of our players straight down Jolly's throat. Nobody's on the same page. It's just rubbish and unwatchable

What about Garland playing on quickly from a point and running to the members side where no MFC players were - he then realised there was no-one there, went sideways to someone who then kicked to 3 Collingwood players on their own on the members wing. Seriously WTF???

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I thought Mark covered it well in the Presser when he said "Our Playing List is our Playing List".

This was after he'd admitted certain players should be running out in the VFL but that we didn't have that luxury.

Not sure if he was talking about older players not up to it or the young guys short on the blessed experience.

Neeld has said this is his list and he has to accept responsibility for it so that's a copout. What amazes me is he went round the country looking for the best payers in the smaller competitions and yet he can't find a spot for two of the best players in the VFL, Magner and Couch.

If they weren't on our list last year I would bet London to a brick he would have recruited either or both of them.

He has shown appalling judgement with the players he disposed of, and those he recruited.

It amazes me that we have so many ordinary players still on the list.

[Guest]

A comment about today's President's lunch based on media reports.

In regard to Jeff Kennett's comments about offerring himself for President of MFC, McLardy was correct in dismissing the 'brown and gold' side of JK.

However, McLardy showed his lack of understanding of the responsibilities of his own position when he brought JK's politics into the discussion - this lack of judgement parallels that of MN as Coach and shows how poorly both men are dealing with the pressures of the current MFC position.

Both men need to keep their eyes on the ball, not on the man.

To be honest Hardtack, I think the potshot about the election was pretty apt. I think a lot of people were wary of the changes that Kennett bought but the BIGGEST reason he lost was that he treats people like crap and shoots first and asks questions later. The biggest reason he lost in the end was Russell Savage.

[fired up 77]

Incidentally, am I the only one who loved the 50m penalty Garland gave away? Just hurled Cloke face-first to the ground to emphasize his point to the rest of our defence. Beautiful.

I also enjoyed seeing that.

[Lordweaver 235]

Neeld has said this is his list and he has to accept responsibility for it so that's a copout. What amazes me is he went round the country looking for the best payers in the smaller competitions and yet he can't find a spot for two of the best players in the VFL, Magner and Couch.

If they weren't on our list last year I would bet London to a brick he would have recruited either or both of them.

He has shown appalling judgement with the players he disposed of, and those he recruited.

It amazes me that we have so many ordinary players still on the list.

He refers the recruitment to todd viney in the presser

[Older demon 2,741]

I was very disappointed with the third quarter when I thought the coaching staff went to the Wallace flood. Most of that quarter was played in the Woods half and we had no one up forward. We got our 2 goals when the Woods turned over and let us run free into space al a Blease. I was worried that Neeld had gone into preservation mode to limit the margin. At least in the last we appeared to man up and re structure again. Same result another 5 goal quarter

[Lordweaver 235]

I was very disappointed with the third quarter when I thought the coaching staff went to the Wallace flood. Most of that quarter was played in the Woods half and we had no one up forward. We got our 2 goals when the Woods turned over and let us run free into space al a Blease. I was worried that Neeld had gone into preservation mode to limit the margin. At least in the last we appeared to man up and re structure again. Same result another 5 goal quarter

yeah in his presser he makes no reference to that but rather claims to have kept an attacking structure

[CHAMP 347]

This is the new " it is what it is" statement Champ.

Indeed. I recognised its thinly-veiled re-iteration instantly.

Edited June 10, 2013 by CHAMP

[Cards13 9,117]

Today Collingwood scored 89 of their 122 points through turnovers.

Fark me!!! That is disgraceful, I wonder how many points for the year would be scored from our turn overs....

[Older demon 2,741]

He refers the recruitment to todd viney in the presser

Yes I heard that throw away line "Viney's recruits" I would like somone to list all the Neeld quotes since he started as I think he has changed tack at least half a dozen times. I am unsure what he stands for and have stopped listening to his presser as I just don't believe him anymore

[Hardnut 327]

To be honest Hardtack, I think the potshot about the election was pretty apt. I think a lot of people were wary of the changes that Kennett bought but the BIGGEST reason he lost was that he treats people like crap and shoots first and asks questions later. The biggest reason he lost in the end was Russell Savage.

You have the wrong 'Hard' CBF, but the reasons why JK lost Government were complex - certainly he is a strong character which is why he makes enemies - personally I'd be happy with strong characters around me rather than 'Yes people'.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,091]

We looked ok when we ran with the Pies in the first and our disposal held up. We looked poor when we could no longer run with the Pies 5 minutes into the second and our disposal deteriorated as we tired. Watts worked harder and attacked the ball in the first like I have never seen before but he was stuffed by quarter time. If he keeps that work rate up he will significantly improve.

Good games by Terlich and M Jones once again. Good improvement from Toumpas and Pederson. Garland tried valiantly but I cant see how when your opponent has 13 marks you can be your sides best player.

Keen to see how we go against some of the lesser sides post bye. Shame it will probably be without Frawley, Clark, Grimes, Viney and possibly Dawes.

[DemonOX 8,779]

Keen to see how we go against some of the lesser sides post bye. Shame it will probably be without Frawley, Clark, Grimes, Viney and possibly Dawes.

Why brf it's going to be another few wks of arze kickings

[titan_uranus 24,964]

Was really happy with Toumpas today - for the first time he looked like he was comfortable out there. Saw a bright future for him, should be a sound player for us.

Garland was outstanding, Pedersen provided some run (needs to be allowed to run more, can't have him tied down at FB or CHB because he loses man-on-man too much), Matt Jones bounced back well from last week, Davey looked good when he was forward, Dawes look good while he was out there.

Losing Dawes destroyed our structure and we fell apart. At a guess, I'd knock 20 points off the margin if he'd been out there, maybe more. The gap between the two sides was great, but not 83 points great.

I've been saying this for years, today was just another example - Lynden Dunn is a disgrace of a footballer. I don't want to see him get another game. He's absolutely awful. All he does is point and yell at everyone else to man up or zone or run or something. He's good for nothing. I'm done with that hack.

Blease and Fitzpatrick were both odd. Blease did some nice things and defensively looked to have upped his workrate, but he still tries to play on and take tacklers on too often and doesn't lower his eyes enough. He also needs to get fitter. Fitzpatrick generally looks like a total spud, but he showed pace and mobility. I think Blease could use some more games, but Fitzpatrick I just don't think is good enough.

They had a crack in the first quarter, which is pretty much all you hope for these days, but as the game wore on their work rate dropped. Unless you're at the ground it's hard to notice, but Collingwood players continually worked harder and out-numbered Melbourne players at the contest.

Lynden Dunn is a disgrace. And a serial piker. You'd never wear the jumper again if I was coach.

Pedersen is also a complete piker.

Watts - keep your feet in contests.

As funny as it sounds, the difference between the two sides wasn't that great. Melbourne lack composure, make skill errors, and some poor decisions that cruel you. But it can change with a couple of guns in the middle, more experience, and a bit of belief.

Generally agree with this. Pedersen is weak in man-on-man marking contests, if that's what you are referring to there. Watts I thought was pretty good today, presented well, was crucified by terrible disposal when he was on the lead.

[titan_uranus 24,964]

Garland tried valiantly but I cant see how when your opponent has 13 marks you can be your sides best

Because he beat Cloke in most of the fair one-on-one contests they had. Where Cloke got him was when the ball came in under no pressure and he could get on a lead and take the mark. Commonly there was no assistance - no one dropping into the hole. You could see from Garland's body language and constant frustration that there was meant to be someone getting in Cloke's way and stopping him getting on those leads.

[DemonOX 8,779]

They have just mentioned OTC that PJ is going to the AFL on Friday with his plan and then changes will be made. He will get his plan ticked off by the AFL along with some $$$$$$

Changes may include a new coach, head of footy department, reporting structures and board changes etc

Unfortunately this means Neeld will stay a bit longer.

Edited June 10, 2013 by DemonOX

[Return to Glory 8,411]

This.

We have what, 9 coaches? Between them all can they not come up with one single alternative to the bomb it long to Jamar (who rarely takes a mark anyway!)???

And for the love of all that is red and blue, why oh why is Dunn the designated kicker? He. Is. Shite!

That's actually very funny. 9 coaches, many pre match meetings...ah f#ck it, I'll bomb it to the tallest bloke on the field. "Whaddayamean you're letting me go"

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,091]

Why brf it's going to be another few wks of arze kickings

I dont necessarily agree with you. Our work rate and defensive intent to me has clearly improved. Its our disposal particularly as we tire that is poor. We have played sides that put you to the sword when you turn the ball over. I don't see StKilda and Western as sides that will make you pay on the turn over.

[Gorgoroth 12,911]

I've never been quieter watching a game than I was today.

Toumpas kicking made me smile, Kent was a hi light, Garland was super. The Jones boys and Terlich keep on showing up the rest.

[Return to Glory 8,411]

I dont necessarily agree with you. Our work rate and defensive intent to me has clearly improved. Its our disposal particularly as we tire that is poor. We have played sides that put you to the sword when you turn the ball over. I don't see StKilda and Western as sides that will make you pay on the turn over.

I agree Big Red. But why are we tiring so quickly and noticeably?

[mrtwister 652]

continually handball to blokes who don't move because no one moves.

How are we supposed to hit moving targets when we have so much trouble hitting stationary ones?

Edited June 10, 2013 by mrtwister

[jumbo returns 6,737]

Was really happy with Toumpas today - for the first time he looked like he was comfortable out there. Saw a bright future for him, should be a sound player for us.

Garland was outstanding, Pedersen provided some run (needs to be allowed to run more, can't have him tied down at FB or CHB because he loses man-on-man too much), Matt Jones bounced back well from last week, Davey looked good when he was forward, Dawes look good while he was out there.

Losing Dawes destroyed our structure and we fell apart. At a guess, I'd knock 20 points off the margin if he'd been out there, maybe more. The gap between the two sides was great, but not 83 points great.

I've been saying this for years, today was just another example - Lynden Dunn is a disgrace of a footballer. I don't want to see him get another game. He's absolutely awful. All he does is point and yell at everyone else to man up or zone or run or something. He's good for nothing. I'm done with that hack.

Blease and Fitzpatrick were both odd. Blease did some nice things and defensively looked to have upped his workrate, but he still tries to play on and take tacklers on too often and doesn't lower his eyes enough. He also needs to get fitter. Fitzpatrick generally looks like a total spud, but he showed pace and mobility. I think Blease could use some more games, but Fitzpatrick I just don't think is good enough.

Generally agree with this. Pedersen is weak in man-on-man marking contests, if that's what you are referring to there. Watts I thought was pretty good today, presented well, was crucified by terrible disposal when he was on the lead.

I've been debating this point with you last year t_u and I was all for keeping him.

But, today was almost the last straw...clapped all the players into a huddle, watched them break, then kicked the ball to himself and passed it straight to Jolly.

Game over.