Was Gutnick right?

[Courtney_Fish 183]

What ever you thought about Gutnick, was he right about Cameron Schwab?

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I'll agree with him that diamonds are a girl's best friend. Not much else.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Even sadder is that f'wit David King looks like he was right

[What 18,810]

What ever you thought about Gutnick, was he right about Cameron Schwab?

Refresh our memories as to what he though of Schwab, i cant recall

[Guest]

Does anyone have the mail on why he fired Schwab? It was popular knowledge in the day that he sacked Schwab over concealing our salary cap breaches from the board. But his actual sacking happened nearly two months after he finally 'fessed up to Joe about what he had been doing. Something else must have happened to have pushed Joe over the edge. If it were only the salary cap and his hiding of it, then he would have been gone at the end of the fortnight at latest.

[DemonSG 1]

unpaid tax bill hidden in accountants draw

[Go the Biff 3,435]

unpaid tax bill hidden in accountants draw

Wasn't that at the end of Joe's & the start of Zondy's reign ? I remember the incident but not the timing

[praha 11,240]

Does anyone have the mail on why he fired Schwab? It was popular knowledge in the day that he sacked Schwab over concealing our salary cap breaches from the board. But his actual sacking happened nearly two months after he finally 'fessed up to Joe about what he had been doing. Something else must have happened to have pushed Joe over the edge. If it were only the salary cap and his hiding of it, then he would have been gone at the end of the fortnight at latest.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/schwab-designated-fall-guy-walks-plank-20130409-2hjk1.html

There is another article on The Age from 1999/2000 but can't find it...

Crikey also wrote a piece on Melbourne's potential re-hiring of Schwab back in 2008: http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/30/chairman-jim-stynes-puts-the-hollywood-back-into-melbourne/

As for Gutnick, he was no saint.

Seems many a white knight has trotted into Melbourne before having to result to financial fallacies and unethical competitive (or uncompetitive) tactics.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What ever you thought about Gutnick, was he right about Cameron Schwab?

Gutnick dobbed the Club into the AFL for salary cap breach after he had a falling out with Schwab when Joe was Chairman and Schwab was CEO. The salary cap breaches were initiated by Schwab's predecessor but were not addressed nor resolved by Schwab.

In a typical self serving action, Gutnick offered Schwab's head on a stick to the AFL over the issue. MFC were punished with draft pick penalties in 1999 and 2000.

It's ironic Joe chose to be so "open and transparent" when his corporate life has been the exact opposite with numerous shareholders being wiped out and left in the dark.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

unpaid tax bill hidden in accountants draw

That was Ray Ellis.

[binman 43,163]

How often is someone sacked by an organisation only to be reemployed some time later (particularly CEOs)?

[Go the Biff 3,435]

How often is someone sacked by an organisation only to be reemployed some time later (particularly CEOs)?

If you read Rhino's version of events, which is pretty close to how I recall it, Schwab was not so much sacked as sacrificed

[angrydee 842]

Gutnick dobbed the Club into the AFL for salary cap breach after he had a falling out with Schwab when Joe was Chairman and Schwab was CEO. The salary cap breaches were initiated by Schwab's predecessor but were not addressed nor resolved by Schwab.

In a typical self serving action, Gutnick offered Schwab's head on a stick to the AFL over the issue. MFC were punished with draft pick penalties in 1999 and 2000.

It's ironic Joe chose to be so "open and transparent" when his corporate life has been the exact opposite with numerous shareholders being wiped out and left in the dark.

Be careful RR. he's quick to sue and hasn't lost one yet

[dees189227 12,394]

Why did we get Schwab back. I mean you wouldnt see the storm taking back Waldron after what he did. Yes I know what Waldon did was 100 times worse but Cameron was at the club when we got busted with the salary cap.

Is it because Jim wanted his mate back or we wanted melbourne people back. The next CEO has to be a person who is not a melbourne person. Peter Jackson seems to be saying the right things.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/schwab-designated-fall-guy-walks-plank-20130409-2hjk1.html

There is another article on The Age from 1999/2000 but can't find it...

Crikey also wrote a piece on Melbourne's potential re-hiring of Schwab back in 2008: http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/30/chairman-jim-stynes-puts-the-hollywood-back-into-melbourne/

As for Gutnick, he was no saint.

Seems many a white knight has trotted into Melbourne before having to result to financial fallacies and unethical competitive (or uncompetitive) tactics.

Sorry. Is that a No or a Yes?

[Courtney_Fish 183]

That was Ray Ellis.

So was Ray Ellis right about Schwab?

[Courtney_Fish 183]

Gutnick dobbed the Club into the AFL for salary cap breach after he had a falling out with Schwab when Joe was Chairman and Schwab was CEO. The salary cap breaches were initiated by Schwab's predecessor but were not addressed nor resolved by Schwab.

In a typical self serving action, Gutnick offered Schwab's head on a stick to the AFL over the issue. MFC were punished with draft pick penalties in 1999 and 2000.

It's ironic Joe chose to be so "open and transparent" when his corporate life has been the exact opposite with numerous shareholders being wiped out and left in the dark.

Is that a No or Yes?

[Cards13 9,117]

Diamond Joe huh.... http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/gutnick-sued-on-million-dollar-deal/story-e6frfkp9-1226622943767

[Courtney_Fish 183]

Diamond Joe huh.... http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/gutnick-sued-on-million-dollar-deal/story-e6frfkp9-1226622943767

I tried to frame the question without people getting too worked up about their feelings for Gutnick. The question is was Gutnick right about Schwab despite what you think of Gutnick.

[darkhorse72 1,920]

On memory CS was trying to fix the cheating buy bringing it back under the cap and within the rules. It was put into place by the previous CEO. So on that one he had a raw deal if that info is correct.

Ironically it was the entry(and panic) of the shockers into the comp that caused to do that because of the big contracts being offered to Kowel, TIngay and others.

Also its was till then out worst period of success for awhile...wooden spoon and we were cheating...only we can do that. at least carltank cheating put them into finals etc

[Whispering_Jack 30,257]

My understanding is that Cameron Schwab and the MFC parted ways for personal differences between them not related to the operation of the club.

Source: Gutnick himself.

Ray Ellis was CEO at the club during Gabriel Szondy's presidency. Schwab had nothing to do with the club at the time. He was at Fremantle.

Ellis was the CEO who was said to have "lost" tax bills in his drawer. We're not sure what lines of communication there were between Ellis, Szondy and the other members of the MFC board at the time.

Finally, if anyone wants to make derogatory or defamatory statements about Joseph Gutnick or any other person on this site then they should be prepared to identify themselves personally and provide an address for service of writs.

If not, the moderators reserve the right to remove your posts.

[Go the Biff 3,435]

Did you believe him ? Serious question.

My understanding is that Cameron Schwab and the MFC parted ways for personal differences between them not related to the operation of the club.

Source: Gutnick himself.

[Sir Why You Little 37,053]

I don't Blame Schwab for his conduct under Gutnick...He was thrown to the wolves, many of our top players were being paid overs.

His Red & Blue Print is another matter & has put us back a decade, maybe more....

G Lyon was a fool for stopping him walking after 186.

I would like to see that bought up on a monday night.

Edited May 17, 2013 by why you little

[Whispering_Jack 30,257]

Did you believe him ? Serious question.

No reason not to believe him and it was confirmed by others.

We live in times when people look only for things that are negative or sinister and won't accept the simple explanations which are often the truth.

There is a Jewish footballer called Ezra Poyas who was drafted at # 22 in the 1999 draft and the urban myth that was going around for some time was that Gutnick prevented the club's recruiters because he didn't want to have a Jewish footballer playing on the sabbath for his club. Truth was the recruiters actually preferred Brad Green at # 19 because he was a better prospect and despite Gutnick's personal and religious beliefs, they had the final say on who they selected.

For once the recruiters were right but the myth persisted. Green played 254 games for the MFC and Poyas played 9 for the RFC.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

I thought Gutnick was great for the club & never understood why we got rid of him - oh wait, establishment club of rich white boys from the eastern suburbs couldn't handle a little Jewish man running their club, that's right.