Time to go Mark Neeld

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Yeah, but we don't need it tomorrow.

Yes we do. Our membership numbers are haemorraghing at the moment, god knows what the sponsors think and we become more and more an unattractive place to be, for possible future players. It may not be Neeld, but something has to change.

Edited May 6, 2013 by iv'a worn smith

[binman 38,836]

I think that over the journey I've highlighted a range of things that have worried me about this coach pretty much from day one. I was on a hiding to nothing then and believe me, I wanted to believe. But his treatment of Davey and Watts early was awful, his appointment of the two captains was awful, his scorched earth approach and disenfranchising of the older players was awful and his handling of the Misfud affair was awful (these are my opinions).

So I think this Club would be best served by changing coach and I think that should happen in the most dignified way possible.

We need a change.

I agree with the bolded bit and i shared your concerns at the time. My sense then was his approach was hugely risky with potentially an upside but also potentially a huge downside. The gamble has not paid off.

You make a good point that it is folly to just look at spirit alone as an indicator of the FD performance.

You also may be right about the club being best served by changing coach (and certainly if they do lets hope it happens in the most dignified way possible) and that we need a change As i said i'm a swinging voter on this point and i'm not sure which side of the fence i sit. I certainly was clearer in my mind when they were playing without any spirit whatsoever.

My take though is that the club, rightly or wrongly, will not sack him mid season if the results are ok and i simply cannot see him standing down. History says a club needs the authorization of poor performances and heavy losses to sack a coach during the season (eg Bailey, Daniher, Wallace etc etc).

If Grandold is correct about the level of disenchantment then those losses will surely happen but my gut tells me the players are coming around and if i'm correct the probability is he will see out the season - and then who knows from there.

Thanks btw for your repsonses

[demon3165 2,011]

73 pages mostly of crap posted by people who have no idea what goes on inside the club and just follow the sheep trail of the media, no facts to support their rants but still it goes on and on, he's something novel just support the club and let them deal with it.

Edited May 6, 2013 by demon3165

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

Yeah, but we don't need it tomorrow.

I fail to understand the benefit of holding onto someone when you know they are not the one. You break up with your girlfriend when you realise she is not the one, even if life is pretty good. Well life at MFC is not pretty good, we know Neeld does not have the skill set required for our situation. The players continue to go backwards, confidence and self belief are not improving, overall play remains shocking.

Why would you keep him any longer? Why not try someone new, on a trial basis til seasons end. There is simply nothing to lose. Surley with a high degree of probability a new coach will get better perfomances than Neeld.

I like Baghdad saw very concerning signs almost from day one. Neeld needed to be sent to management school before being given the job as he is no natural manager. Many of his mistakes are text book and something you woudl expect in the 2nd division of a country league. People will write studies in future years about this....... as what not to do.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[beelzebub 22,269]

Yeah, but we don't need it tomorrow.

if not tomorrow...then when ? And why would you consider that any different or better.

There are many factors to consider I concede. If a change is required it validates someting is wrong ( very ) and needs changing , more than correcting the errors of the exisitng . If thats the case how long ( read damage) do you brace against the destruction ?

Id love Melbourne to suddenly fire. Dont expect us to be terribly triumphant but to be truly competitive and showing signs of gelling would be all that Neeld needs to survive. I just cant see this happening in any meaningful timeframe.

Id prefer to be wrong, for Neeld to haul us out of the mire. I just want success, dont care from whom.

But RPFC you agree to change....so when is when ?

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

......

Excellent post and contribution Bimbo

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

73 pages mostly of crap posted by people who have no idea what goes on inside the club and just follow the sheep trail of the media, no facts to support their rants but still it goes on and on, he's something novel just support the club and let them deal with it.

And your facts are???? If the facts are we simply don't have the cattle on the park, which is not Neeld's or the football department's fault, which translates into a lack of accountability, an absence of a willingness to be in a contest, and even though we train the house down, we cannot transpose that to match day, then we have a problem.

[Chook 14,602]

I fail to understand the benefit of holding onto someone when you know they are not the one.

Story of my life.

[demon3165 2,011]

And your facts are???? If the facts are we simply don't have the cattle on the park, which is not Neeld's or the football department's fault, which translates into a lack of accountability, an absence of a willingness to be in a contest, and even though we train the house down, we cannot transpose that to match day, then we have a problem.

Iva, i'm not the one ranting, bagging or wanting Neeld sacked based on media dribble or trying to read into things that are not there and then try to make them factual, the club have said they will stick by Neeld, as they understand where he is going so I would be very surprised if they changed course now.

[machine11 142]

blaming Neeld for the lose of senior players - they were leaving long before Neeld arrived... judging from Neelds press conference - he has already decided which players will form the basis for the future - secondly once the game plan become more natural - we will more than likely improve alot quicker.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Thank the lord RR is no longer a mod.. One can clearly see why.

I'm a bit in between when it comes to Neeld. How Rhino thinks it's all his fault I will never know, but he has made some odd decisions in terms of recruiting as well as how the game plan looks to be.

Whilst this is a thread about 'Neeld', I would like to highlight the fact that the MFC have the worst list in the AFL by a country mile.

No coach can fix the conditioned skill level of players or their ability to make smart decisions. Neeld was given this list and whilst I dot agree with everything he has implemented, it is not him who is making terrible errors time after time. I don't know if people overrate our list or what it is, but it seems pretty obvious that our recruiters over the past 6 or 7 years have completely neglected key attributes such as disposal efficiency and decision making. When you mix that with a losing culture and poor/lazy training habits over several years, it's obviously going to be tough to fix. No coach can fix it in fact.

People bang on about Port Adelaide and how they've turned it around so easily and it's very irritating. They clearly have a much better list than us. The only difference has been the intensity in which they play. They have smart players that make sound decisions. Hartlett on his own is unbelievable and makes a huge difference to their side.

We have shown the required intensity it times to match it with teams. The only reason we seem to end up being down during those times in games is because of our deplorable disposal and terrible decision making. 80 percent of our side has below average disposal skills and decision making ability. Bail, Evans, Mackenzie, grimes, Nicholson, McDonald etc etc.

We have such a bad bad list. There are so many factors involved, blaming Neeld solely is extremely naive.

We've got a long way to go.

I want to ask you this. At the end of 2010 did you think we had such a bad list? 8 and a half games won, young but promising was the consensus. Do you agree?

Then, in 2011, was the list all that bad? Same number of wins, 3 by 16 goals. There were problems defensively but we had a gameplan and knew how to attack.

Why then is the list so much worse now?

Why are so many players a shadow of their 2010 selves?

How was it correct to recruit 5 players who couldn't get a game elsewhere?

Why ignore the fact that Petterd had Achilles problems last 2 years but was now better. We KNEW he could play. Ditto Moloney. How inadequate to simply clear him rather than get on top of the issues.

I dispute hat Neeld inherited a bad list, or that they were unfit. (though I haven't checked it, my impression is that Bailey's teams ran out the game better than Neeld's.) I have found his excuses pathetic, demeaning of both himself and his predecessor.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Iva, i'm not the one ranting, bagging or wanting Neeld sacked based on media dribble or trying to read into things that are not there and then try to make them factual, the club have said they will stick by Neeld, as they understand where he is going so I would be very surprised if they changed course now.

Ahhhh, the old axiom. "The coach has the full support of the board" . It would be a fearful coach who hears that. As for the rant,. People "rant" on here because they are passionate. They just want to see something approaching passion emanating from the players and the club.

No-one on here, at least in their right mind, expects this side to threaten the eight, in fact we know we're a long way from that, but we do expect them to have a go. I, for one, can't say I have really seen the required effort yet. And if what I have heard about certain players' parents expressing dissatisfaction with the coach and they way the coach treats them, has any modicum of truth, then I am worried.

[DeeZee 6,805]

Its really hard to judge untill our games average has gone up from 30 to 100;

Either that or go on a big campaign to get some very good senior players to lift our average in a hurry.

Im not talking about guys like Pederson ,Gillies and Rodan etc...

Its imperative we pull no stops in securing some above average midfielders like Thomas.

[demon3165 2,011]

so you have heard of a players parents concerns, did you hear them first hand?

[Bossdog 2,002]

I fail to understand the benefit of holding onto someone when you know they are not the one. You break up with your girlfriend when you realise she is not the one, even if life is pretty good. Well life at MFC is not pretty good, we know Neeld does not have the skill set required for our situation. The players continue to go backwards, confidence and self belief are not improving, overall play remains shocking.

Why would you keep him any longer? Why not try someone new, on a trial basis til seasons end. There is simply nothing to lose. Surley with a high degree of probability a new coach will get better perfomances than Neeld.

I like Baghdad saw very concerning signs almost from day one. Neeld needed to be sent to management school before being given the job as he is no natural manager. Many of his mistakes are text book and something you woudl expect in the 2nd division of a country league. People will write studies in future years about this....... as what not to do.

So....we sack the coach......and replace him with another.....We change the whole game plan and defensive work that they are learning..(other teams learnt it a long time ago).......While we are learning this whole new game plan....We cop some terrible hidings ....DL's go into melt down again and we sack the coach......THEN ......we get another coach and HE implements a whole new game plan.......While we are learning this game plan......We cop some terrible hidings and so on and so on

Sometimes you have to let a coach implement a whole change of culture at a club......Not tear it down again and again......

There will always be posters that want to rip the place apart when things go bad.......We have to go though with this appointment.......Otherwise will will just keep shooting ourselves in the foot.....Just by the way who is going to replace Neeld.........Roos....will never coach again......Mathews?....will never coach again.......Another untried coach ???.........And when they don't provide instant success >>>>DL's will be moaning that we didn't have the foresight or the guts to stand by a decision that I think is a good one.....

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Geelong had 9 players each of whom had played under 50 games on the weekend. They have several pushing for senior selection in their 2's. Yes, before you jump down my throat, I know the core of Geelong's list is as rock solid as any in the AFL. The point i make, is they never bottomed out and they have a culture which has never seen then with a losing average of over 10 goals.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

so you have heard of a players parents concerns, did you hear them first hand?

Yes, at a club function. That's as far as I go on that issue.

[demon3165 2,011]

what I mean did you hear Neeld say them.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Yes, at a club function. That's as far as I go on that issue.

What?????....Since when do parents not like the coach?????......Poor little darlings..........."My boy should be in the team.....This coach is nasty to my boy".........No wonder we are in the mess we are.......Geeezz..

[Slartibartfast 15,918]

My take though is that the club, rightly or wrongly, will not sack him mid season if the results are ok

So what's ok? Was Sunday ok?

[jumbo returns 6,515]

The weekend may well have been seen as a borderline pass by those who wield the stick. The performance was still unacceptable but at least the club did not go further backwards. The players did give it a crack. If they did not Neeld was gone.

However, make no mistake Neeld continues to remain one week from being fired................. and rightly so.

Lets not get soft, lets not get emotional. Neeld is not our man. If Neeld was a player he would have already been shown the door. His performance as coach has been horrific. If we were not looking at a mass walk out come season end, I would be happy to give him until round 11. However, the risks are simply too high. Only a new coach with ample time to make a difference can stop the rot and give our players some self respect, self confidence, and give back their natural abilities. Only a new coach can save the furniture. You could easily see what Carlton’s game plan was, but apart from kicking long I had no idea what Melbourne’s was. This is not good enough.

I see no reason why we can't get a coach that can continue to install a better culture AND is able to coach at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive.

On Trenners, he clearly has OP or some other injury that is debilitating his run and streagth. He must be rested until this is fixed. If that means a season on the sideline.....so be it, but it is simply unfair on the kid to have him in the side as captain, a shadow of the player he was at the tender age of 21. Poor coaching.

Really?

Newton - seven years

Morton - five years

Bennell - four years

Petterd - six years

Bate - seven years

Hardly shown the door, were they? Developed by Neeld?

[JTR 2,660]

So....we sack the coach......and replace him with another.....We change the whole game plan and defensive work that they are learning..(other teams learnt it a long time ago).......While we are learning this whole new game plan....We cop some terrible hidings ....DL's go into melt down again and we sack the coach......THEN ......we get another coach and HE implements a whole new game plan.......While we are learning this game plan......We cop some terrible hidings and so on and so on

Sometimes you have to let a coach implement a whole change of culture at a club......Not tear it down again and again......

There will always be posters that want to rip the place apart when things go bad.......We have to go though with this appointment.......Otherwise will will just keep shooting ourselves in the foot.....Just by the way who is going to replace Neeld.........Roos....will never coach again......Mathews?....will never coach again.......Another untried coach ???.........And when they don't provide instant success >>>>DL's will be moaning that we didn't have the foresight or the guts to stand by a decision that I think is a good one.....

Exactly how I see it. I was annoyed at Bailey getting the boot for the same reason. Just as (imo) we were on the cusp of getting something solid together, 186 happens, people panic, and away he goes.

In comes Neeld, and again, just as the players start to get their head around the new regime, the processes, training, game plan, whatever... we want to flick him.

And what? Back to square 1 again?

Seems to me like it's been 1 step forward 2 steps back, basically since Daniher.

Like it or hate him, we need to stick with him, at least for the duration of his term.

[Chook 14,602]

So....we sack the coach......and replace him with another.....We change the whole game plan and defensive work that they are learning..(other teams learnt it a long time ago).......While we are learning this whole new game plan....We cop some terrible hidings ....DL's go into melt down again and we sack the coach......THEN ......we get another coach and HE implements a whole new game plan.......While we are learning this game plan......We cop some terrible hidings and so on and so on

Sometimes you have to let a coach implement a whole change of culture at a club......Not tear it down again and again......

There will always be posters that want to rip the place apart when things go bad.......We have to go though with this appointment.......Otherwise will will just keep shooting ourselves in the foot.....Just by the way who is going to replace Neeld.........Roos....will never coach again......Mathews?....will never coach again.......Another untried coach ???.........And when they don't provide instant success >>>>DL's will be moaning that we didn't have the foresight or the guts to stand by a decision that I think is a good one.....

I'm glad somebody around here gets it. This is the cycle we risk getting ourselves into if we don't stay the course.

[Axis of Bob 10,310]

Everyone keeps repeating the groupthink that the longer we keep Neeld, the more irreparable harm will be caused.

What is this irreparable harm he is apparently causing?

[binman 38,836]

So what's ok? Was Sunday ok?

Yes, i think so. I guess you don't think so. But again it matters not a jot what you or i think.

I would imagine the position of the board would be that yes, Sunday, unlike the first 2 rounds, was ok and that the effort, spirit and intensity were at the required level - a level that if maintained will ensure they, rightly or wrongly, won't sack Neeld mid season.

At the risk of repeating myself i simply don't see the point arguing whether Neeld should be sacked, better to postulate whether he will be.

Edited May 6, 2013 by binman