AFL investigation

[The Chazz 4,077]

Are you criticising people for criticising people?

I'm hoping I will get a "moderator" title for Christmas, and just trying to make the "nice" list of WJ.

[beelzebub 23,376]

This investigation has been going on far too long, and many $$$ have been spent by the AFL for them to leak like a sieve,........

This idea has me a bit curious, not to your assertion but that all the way along it does indeed seemed to have been leaking.

We even had word about this latest chapter, the "evidence is presented" before it became public.

We learnt of the "techniques" of the inquisition even some of its targets etc not only before it was p-k but that it even should be.

The Heraldry of the AFL ought to be a Sieve and Sceptre !!

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

I've read this thread, and many other threads and articles regarding the tanking issue. One thing I have to say about what is posted about the topic on Demonland, I'm sick to death of the people who are in the "nothing to see, move along" corner. Can you please remind of a few things?

* This is a public forum, where everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Your opinion is that we will get off, some don't have that opinion. What's with the arrogant, smart-arse posting, having shots at people that don't think the same as you? The whole "the sky is falling" crap, FFS, grow up.

* How can you be so sure that we are going to get off? Unless you work for the AFL, you are basing this on nothing other than what the media (you know, those people that we all abuse about trying to bring us down) are reporting. Your evidence is no different to those that believe we are guilty, although it could be argued that some of our games in 2009 would allow us to think that something wasn't "quite right".

It's pretty ordinary that a number of you took pot shots at DeeGirl for raising the topic. She obviously had the word; no, it's not 100% accurate...yet. She did say that cetain bodies had been charged, which, according to media outlets, isn't quite accurate. People want her to name her source, why? What if she worked at the AFL? Do you think they would want one of their employees posting stuff on supporter forums? If she's got form, I am happy to take her word for it. You soon learn who does have the contacts, or when they get "the word", and it is often clear who has no bloody idea and are just making [censored] up. Deegirl is obviously one that does know her stuff.

So, let's try and make this thread a little bit more enjoyable. None of us know what the outcome will be, we all hope it won't be a guilty verdict, but who knows? Not I, or any of you.

I do find it funny how when the $cummy issue was around, that the all in the media were driving the "he's leaving", that they had seen "evidence" that he had signed, a majority on here believed it, and it turned out spot on. Yet this issue, the media are driving that "we're guilty" bus, they claim to have spoken to key figures, have knowledge of various incidients that took place in 2009, yet now, the majority are saying that they are out to get us?

Billy I appreciate it is a public forum, but the sky is falling is a figure of speech. I will put it a better way there are lots of conspiracy theorists around, The AFL is out to get us etc etc. Sorry but this is real life and involves a legal process, so the sky is not falling if people simply take a step back and consider the evidence and facts at hand.

At the moment everything is speculation and IMO if there was damning evidence we would have heard by now and rather than being in a stand up and fight mode the board would be trying to limit the punishment in a similar way to Adelaide did.

[beelzebub 23,376]

The new rule "poor attempt at comedy in an inappropriate place".

aka as Dud -Dads ( jokes )

Edited December 20, 2012 by belzebub59

[hoopla 418]

Are you serious? 21 days is a perfectly ordinary legislative/regulatory/conventional period in which to reply to lots of things, including allegations/findings.

I don't disagree .

I just think ( being serious - and paranoid!) that they wouldn't have advertised this review period if everything was "sweetness and light". If they intend to exonerate us the quickest and easiest way to expedite the matter would have been to come out in January whenever and say that we've concluded our investigation and decided there is no case to answer. The MFC have given us satisfactory explanations for all of matters raised by our investigators .....

Thank you Brock McLean. Thank you Gerard Healy, Mike Sheahan and Paul Roos.

And thank you Caroline Wilson.

It's a real concern that, on the face of it, a nothing story can generate so much carp for a club now intent on getting its house in order.

And yet Carlton is not in the AFL's sights?! It's not only about consistency here, it's also about the integrity of the underlying journalism and the quality of the investigation that's on the line here.

Effectively they all seem to be extremely concerned about a gag made by CC. Are we in Kansas?

It will be a disgrace if McLean isn't hauled over the coals for " bringing the game into disrepute" . Even if the AFL finally agree with his allegations , they should penalise him for going through the media rather than directly to the AFL.

McLean is a self-serving headline-seeking ( slow-moving) weasil. I find the fact that his name is listed as a Foundation Hero quite offensive - we should give him his money back

As for the fact that they haven't investigated Carlton - that denies us the "natural justice" we were promised

The interesting thing that's coming out of this (at this stage) is that CC is the one in the firing line. But what can he be done for? IF Bails, and thus Melbourne, is not found to have tanked then what rule did CC breach? The ever broadening "bringing the game into disrepute"? Based on a comment that many say could be classified as flippant?

God and just when I thought this whole thing couldn't get murkier.

Whether charges are laid against the club or just Chris we should defend them. It's the new Melbourne and we will not roll over.

I don't see how Connolly can possibly be charged for bringing the game into disrepute if the club is not. Although he might now be expendable as a scapegoat / sacrificial lamb, I agree that we must defend him

Edited December 20, 2012 by hoopla

[The Chazz 4,077]

Billy I appreciate it is a public forum, but the sky is falling is a figure of speech. I will put it a better way there are lots of conspiracy theorists around, The AFL is out to get us etc etc. Sorry but this is real life and involves a legal process, so the sky is not falling if people simply take a step back and consider the evidence and facts at hand.

At the moment everything is speculation and IMO if there was damning evidence we would have heard by now and rather than being in a stand up and fight mode the board would be trying to limit the punishment in a similar way to Adelaide did.

Excellent post PStD. The last paragraph in particular shows that it is possible to have the opinion that you do (ie believe the evidence that the AFL has got is very minimal and unlikely to damage us too much), without the need to carry on when someone thinks the opposite.

We don't know what the AFL have, we don't know what the AFL want. We don't know if some at the MFC were stupid enough to document somewhere what our intentions were (ie in the form of an email or other hard evidence). The AFL are obivously tracking one of two paths, a) that they have been told there is physical evidence, other than alledged tounge-in-cheek comments made by CC, or b) they have got bugger all and are desperate to find something.

The Adelaide fiasco needed immediate attention, as salary cap breaches can go on for years (see Melbourne Storm). Our 2009 season had great incentives for poor performance. While we have been crap every year since then, and leading up to it, what we alledgedly did in 2009 hasn't had a significant impact on results in 2010, 2011 and 2012 (ie us tanking in 2009 hasn't seen us win a premiership shortly thereafter). The events of 2008/2009 only damaged the MFC's brand and culture, which both are only starting to be repaired. This has only had a negative impact on us as a club, rather than the AFL competition.

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

Excellent post PStD. The last paragraph in particular shows that it is possible to have the opinion that you do (ie believe the evidence that the AFL has got is very minimal and unlikely to damage us too much), without the need to carry on when someone thinks the opposite.

We don't know what the AFL have, we don't know what the AFL want. We don't know if some at the MFC were stupid enough to document somewhere what our intentions were (ie in the form of an email or other hard evidence). The AFL are obivously tracking one of two paths, a) that they have been told there is physical evidence, other than alledged tounge-in-cheek comments made by CC, or B) they have got bugger all and are desperate to find something.

The Adelaide fiasco needed immediate attention, as salary cap breaches can go on for years (see Melbourne Storm). Our 2009 season had great incentives for poor performance. While we have been crap every year since then, and leading up to it, what we alledgedly did in 2009 hasn't had a significant impact on results in 2010, 2011 and 2012 (ie us tanking in 2009 hasn't seen us win a premiership shortly thereafter). The events of 2008/2009 only damaged the MFC's brand and culture, which both are only starting to be repaired. This has only had a negative impact on us as a club, rather than the AFL competition.

Concur totally with the tanking effect on the club, which is why I believe th enew culture we seem to be heading towards as a no nonsense team will be good for us.

Need to be a team who endeavours to win every game and be fierce at every contest.

I want the Dees to be the team all supporters of the other clubs hate to play against!

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Did everybody sleep alright last night?

It is very edgy in here today...Breathe in Breathe out.

The AFL have finished their Gestapo investigation.

We the MFC now have 21 days to prepare a Defence. Good. It's our turn now.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANYTHING.

I hope the Kruezer Cup is mentioned somewhere in our defence.

Carlton have a far stronger case to answer imo.

[DeeVoted 583]

I doubt very much that the AFL will be quivering in their boots from the MFC threathening to go to court over this,if need be.

I will be more worried about it all blowing up in their faces and thats on the cards.

Finally instead of hiding in the office,and ducking bullets, the MFC has stood up, drawn both guns,and said you made your move,if need be, we are prepared to blow your head off. From where I sit, we have finally grown some balls, I hope they follow through,if need be, or anyone else that decides to use us as a punching bag and a soft target to whack.

We can speculate all we want, until the MFC have had time to review then defend what has been presented. They weigh up their options, deliver their response and we sit tight until the next round gets under way. McLardy has made their intentions known,that is to defend the club and employees. I still believe (I'd like to believe), the AFL hasnt got much to go on. It will depend on what facts they have, that we arent privvy to.

Just about everything else.. $cumbag leaving, the vault. anything else has been leaked to the media in the past. So far what have we got?? I flippant remark that is going to be used to hang us,and or CC. I cant see it happening.

There must be more they have, but what? and it better be better than an off the cuff comment,from someone probably making light of a bad season. Who, by the way, didnt make a statement to the media, as some from other clubs have done,and are on record for comments about getting priority picks,by ensuring they didnt win games. The MFC being victimized comes to mind, that alone in a workplace doesnt go over well.

Throw in being bullied for answers?? The AFL is skating on thin ice. Lets not bring up certain clubs,pulling on the handbrake as to get a home game in finals.

[beelzebub 23,376]

No ones quaking in their boots, thats the whole point. This has become the the AFL's Christmas pantomime. " The Grinch and the Demon "

This is all theatrical. All the players are sticking to the script. The AFL does this, the MFC does that, AFL goons threaten this, MFC retorts with appropriate brough haha !!

f-f to the Final Act, and the predictable scene with the AFL seemingly annoyed yet as were a relenting parent benevolent with their ajudication. The Demons and Grinch skip away ( friends now ) off into footballs susnset.

Its either Theatre or high farce ,one not preventing the other I suppose, so probably both !!

Final scene ( imagery ) is a cut away panning shot of the Demon and Grinch winking knowingly to each other and grinning as the camera fades !!

THE - END

FINIS

Auf Wiedesehen & Goodbye

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Only one CC comment in particular.

I think I know the one you are referring to.

It's definitely not the one when he was discussing that we will be selecting J. Gysberts with pick 11.

and he will turn out to be better than the other 2.

But it may have had something to do with the impact of a WWII machine

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Reading through what the minority had to put up with, I think "clowns" was a very polite reaction.

...

But, I guess the bullies that hunted in packs had no doubt that the kids they were beating up on had no problem with it either.

Given the fact that some people "liked" my post, I don't see the issue with my post.

Off-season on Demonland is getting worse each year, and is no different to society in general. The decline in disrespect for others each year is worrying.

So one sort of name-calling is ok, another sort isn't? As I said, strange standards.

[Philthy 284]

Melbourne Fc : So have you questioned that tactics of Carlton, Richmond, Freo and West coast when they were low on the ladder?

Afl Commision: No

Melbourne Fc: Ohhh I see...And have you also questioned the likes of Hawthorn leaving half their team out against GWS?

Afl Commision: Ahhhh....No?

Melbourne Fc: Then we have no case to answer then?

Afl Commission: That's Correct.

Melbourne Fc: Hello Caro

Caroline Wilson: Hello Melbourne Fc, I would like to start backpeddling now....

Melbourne Fc: Fair enough....We would like to advise you that both Chris Connolly and Cameron Scwhab are persuing defamtion cases against you.

Caroline Wilson: Oh sh*t!!

END STORTY

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Melbourne Fc : So have you questioned that tactics of Carlton, Richmond, Freo and West coast when they were low on the ladder?

Afl Commision: No

Melbourne Fc: Ohhh I see...And have you also questioned the likes of Hawthorn leaving half their team out against GWS?

Afl Commision: Ahhhh....No?

Melbourne Fc: Then we have no case to answer then?

Afl Commission: That's Correct.

Melbourne Fc: Hello Caro

Caroline Wilson: Hello Melbourne Fc, I would like to start backpeddling now....

Melbourne Fc: Fair enough....We would like to advise you that both Chris Connolly and Cameron Scwhab are persuing defamtion cases against you.

Caroline Wilson: Oh sh*t!!

END STORTY

That was what i had in mind.

A very well constructed polite but specific question(s)...could be over in 5.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

I don't read other forums, so if someone with 3 posts comes in out of the blue saying they heard a "rumor" that we are going down as a result of this unjust witch-hunt I will voice my cynicism. I scoff at rumors at the best of times, let alone one so bold- from a poster who I presumed had just signed up to stir the pot (rather huge 3rd post no?)

Doesn't make me or anyone else who questioned the legitimacy of the one line OP a "clown"

[old55 23,573]

The speculations is premature until we see what "findings" the AFL have.

If they got someone bleating that CC "threatened them with losing their job if we won" in an aside then we're probably looking good.

Alternatively if they've got e-mails from key figures discussing tanking then we're in a bit of trouble, Caro is looking good and BBP's deal cutting is good idea.

We'll have to wait and see.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

The decline in disrespect for others each year is worrying.

As long as it's healthy disrespect for others each

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

The speculations is premature until we see what "findings" the AFL have.

If they got someone bleating that CC "threatened them with losing their job if we won" in an aside then we're probably looking good.

Alternatively if they've got e-mails from key figures discussing tanking then we're in a bit of trouble, Caro is looking good and BBP's deal cutting is good idea.

We'll have to wait and see.

if there were emails found or other such things i believe the MFC would have already put the hand up.

But there has been no word. Not one apart from the Pres outlining the strategy in broad terms.

The MFC is preparing a fight if needed & i for one will be waiting for it so this Tanking issue can be dismantled and never heard of again.

[The Chazz 4,077]

As long as it's healthy disrespect for others each

I didn't word that well hey?! I'm sure you knew what I meant!!

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Just read the "Aged" little article in todays rag.

Can't half tell what verdict the want to push.

Don't want the Chief Football Writer to look like a fool do we...

Sooner that paper goes under the better.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I think I know the one you are referring to.

It's definitely not the one when he was discussing that we will be selecting J. Gysberts with pick 11.

and he will turn out to be better than the other 2.

But it may have had something to do with the impact of a WWII machine

If CC made some idiotic remarks about this issue, joking or otherwise, I sincerely hope the club privately drag him over the coals.

[G&D 8]

The head in the sand, no way they can single us out group here amazes me. I love your optimism but we are dealing with the AFL remember so anything can happen. I am told that there is enough evidence for the Commission to lay charges if they feel like it and there is enough wriggle room if they don't want to. In the end it will come down to those people on the Commission reaching a consensus one way or the other - so it's just like a jury verdict. Plenty of innocent have been found guilty by juries and plenty of guilty have walked free. It will be close, for people to just sit back and bah humbug the whole thing is niave.

[beelzebub 23,376]

The head in the sand, no way they can single us out group here amazes me. I love your optimism but we are dealing with the AFL remember so anything can happen. I am told that there is enough evidence for the Commission to lay charges if they feel like it and there is enough wriggle room if they don't want to. In the end it will come down to those people on the Commission reaching a consensus one way or the other - so it's just like a jury verdict. Plenty of innocent have been found guilty by juries and plenty of guilty have walked free. It will be close, for people to just sit back and bah humbug the whole thing is niave.

Not so much Humbug.. But this is all driving towards a conclusion/verdict which is all but immovable. i.e No case to answer. if they decide anything differently the biggest can of mutant snakes will unleash. This is way beyond worms. !!

The AFL needs to protect itself, thats THEIR motive in all of this..We simply ride the train , but this will be Flinders St , all change , this train's going nowhere. It cant.

Thats not naive , thats actually comprehending the full extent of this fiasco.

The outcome is already set. The path to it is still being raked !!

[deegirl 1,578]

I don't read other forums, so if someone with 3 posts comes in out of the blue saying they heard a "rumor" that we are going down as a result of this unjust witch-hunt I will voice my cynicism. I scoff at rumors at the best of times, let alone one so bold- from a poster who I presumed had just signed up to stir the pot (rather huge 3rd post no?)

Doesn't make me or anyone else who questioned the legitimacy of the one line OP a "clown"

The majority of readers seemed to haven drawn the conclusion that my post was to stir everyone up. It wasn't, it was to share news about the club with other keen supporters. I was a little surprised by the majority being so quick to dismiss the post but that's fair, any reasonable person would want to ask questions. You guys will just have to take my word that when I post these things I'm doing it because I think other MFC tragics will want to hear them.

As for posting regularly, it's not my thing. And for my previous posts being negative? In 20+ years of watching Melbourne (as a member) I cannot remember a more demoralising season of football.

Edited December 20, 2012 by deegirl

[rpfc 28,431]

As for posting regularly, it's not my thing. And for my previous posts being negative? In 20+ years of watching Melbourne (as a member) I cannot remember a more demoralising season of football.

What about the one before it?

And, we the collective of Demonland thank you for your inside information and your understanding of the reaction to the information.