Quigley's Mock

[furious d 472]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2012-mock.980920/

Very detailed descriptions that don't gloss over weaknesses, he's a bit more brutal in his assessments. He has us taking Wines but I loved his write up on Viney which I'll throw in to get people salivating. Also he doesn't rate O'Rourke very highly and has him going at 16. It's just another opinion, we've all got em but I thought some might be interested

Jack Viney

DOB: 13/4/94 Ht: 178 Wt: 82

Is head and shoulders the best inside mid in this draft and is exactly the type of player that Gold Coast need for the midfield. He was well worth the number 2 pick it’s just a shame that they didn’t bid for him. Instead he goes to Melbourne at 26. I am very jealous as he would be the kind of player who Brisbane ideally need.

People always talk about Viney’s inside game but tend to overlook his outside skills. Viney is an excellent accumulator of the ball and will rack them up at the next level. He is a kid who works his butt off to spread from clearances and is smart enough to get to good spots. I don’t think he has a natural feel for where to run but he is a smart enough footballer to work it out and then go. He is a big gut runner and taggers at junior level are not able to keep up with him and he tends to get a lot of football that way. This is also a kid who steps up in the big occasions. He was excellent at the Champs when the games were being decided and even going back to last year it is worth noting that he 34 possessions in the TAC GF.

Viney is not a natural endurance athlete but watching him play you can see him turning himself into a runner by sheer force of will. His gut running is as good as I have seen at this level and he runs until he is out of steam. At the moment his first halves are much stronger than his seconds because he has run himself into the ground in the first half. I don’t mind that though and as he continues to work on it the longer into games he can go running to his full capacity. He is a kid who constantly challenges himself to go further and harder and this will stand him in good stead as his career develops.

A lot of inside mids tend to start their careers as poor kicks. This should not be a problem for Viney. He is a left footer who uses it well, particularly in the short to intermediate ranges. He is capable of drilling a nice low kick into his forwards when required. He has reasonable penetration and the weight on his kicks is similarly pretty good without being elite. He is pretty one-sided with his right foot having little penetration or accuracy.

Pace wise Viney is reasonable. He gets up to speed very quickly and shows a nice burst. His does not have the top end of some of the speedsters in this draft but he has the awareness to get the ball away before he is caught. Viney uses his burst of pace very well in tight to charge through contests or through someone trying to tackle him. He is also fairly agile despite his wrecking ball reputation and his agility, pace and strength make his a difficult proposition to tackle. You often hear people talking about putting your head down when you chase and that is literally what Viney does quite often. When he is without the ball and needs an extra effort to chase down a player of the ball the head will go down and he will give it his all. To see that kind of effort would be pretty inspiring for his teammates.

On the inside Viney is an elite talent without question. He is not wedded to any particular ball winning style but will mix it up depending on what works. Sometimes he will start on the outside and attack the contest at pace, sometimes he will sit at the rucks feet. Whatever is going to get him the ball. He reads the ball of the rucks hands very well and has clean quick hands himself. He has excellent awareness of who is around him and excels at getting the ball out to his receivers. As mentioned he is very difficult to tackle and he uses his strength to hold his feet well and does not panic. When he has some momentum going into a contest he will regularly bust tackles, push men off and come out the other side. When an opposition player gets the ball he is a very good tackler and wraps up the man and ball nicely. He has a low centre of gravity and looks like he has done a fair bit of wrestling training in his time.

Viney broke his jaw earlier in the year and was out for 7 weeks which did disrupt his season a bit. Despite that he was one of the players of the Champs and showed all what kind of a player Melbourne is getting. Melbourne need a cultural change and with the clean out underway getting a kid like Viney in will only expedite the transition.

Anyway happy reading for those that are interested.

[BAMF 4,433]

Wow. Thats an awesome write up.

I've been reading Quigleys mock drafts for about 5 years now. His are always a lot more refreshing to read as they often focus on the players negatives rather than just sugar coating the positives like most mock drafts.

[Guest NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

My first reaction on reading the thread title was that some random hack journo named Quigley had sunk the boots in somewhere.

That's what you come to expect as an MFC supporter these days.

[monoccular 17,642]

Speechless!

[dee-luded 2,959]

http://www.bigfooty....12-mock.980920/

Very detailed descriptions that don't gloss over weaknesses, he's a bit more brutal in his assessments. He has us taking Wines but I loved his write up on Viney which I'll throw in to get people salivating. Also he doesn't rate O'Rourke very highly and has him going at 16. It's just another opinion, we've all got em but I thought some might be interested

Jack Viney

DOB: 13/4/94 Ht: 178 Wt: 82

Is head and shoulders the best inside mid in this draft and is exactly the type of player that Gold Coast need for the midfield. He was well worth the number 2 pick it’s just a shame that they didn’t bid for him. Instead he goes to Melbourne at 26. I am very jealous as he would be the kind of player who Brisbane ideally need.

People always talk about Viney’s inside game but tend to overlook his outside skills. Viney is an excellent accumulator of the ball and will rack them up at the next level. He is a kid who works his butt off to spread from clearances and is smart enough to get to good spots. I don’t think he has a natural feel for where to run but he is a smart enough footballer to work it out and then go. He is a big gut runner and taggers at junior level are not able to keep up with him and he tends to get a lot of football that way. This is also a kid who steps up in the big occasions. He was excellent at the Champs when the games were being decided and even going back to last year it is worth noting that he 34 possessions in the TAC GF.

Viney is not a natural endurance athlete but watching him play you can see him turning himself into a runner by sheer force of will. His gut running is as good as I have seen at this level and he runs until he is out of steam. At the moment his first halves are much stronger than his seconds because he has run himself into the ground in the first half. I don’t mind that though and as he continues to work on it the longer into games he can go running to his full capacity. He is a kid who constantly challenges himself to go further and harder and this will stand him in good stead as his career develops.

A lot of inside mids tend to start their careers as poor kicks. This should not be a problem for Viney. He is a left footer who uses it well, particularly in the short to intermediate ranges. He is capable of drilling a nice low kick into his forwards when required. He has reasonable penetration and the weight on his kicks is similarly pretty good without being elite. He is pretty one-sided with his right foot having little penetration or accuracy.

Pace wise Viney is reasonable. He gets up to speed very quickly and shows a nice burst. His does not have the top end of some of the speedsters in this draft but he has the awareness to get the ball away before he is caught. Viney uses his burst of pace very well in tight to charge through contests or through someone trying to tackle him. He is also fairly agile despite his wrecking ball reputation and his agility, pace and strength make his a difficult proposition to tackle. You often hear people talking about putting your head down when you chase and that is literally what Viney does quite often. When he is without the ball and needs an extra effort to chase down a player of the ball the head will go down and he will give it his all. To see that kind of effort would be pretty inspiring for his teammates.

On the inside Viney is an elite talent without question. He is not wedded to any particular ball winning style but will mix it up depending on what works. Sometimes he will start on the outside and attack the contest at pace, sometimes he will sit at the rucks feet. Whatever is going to get him the ball. He reads the ball of the rucks hands very well and has clean quick hands himself. He has excellent awareness of who is around him and excels at getting the ball out to his receivers. As mentioned he is very difficult to tackle and he uses his strength to hold his feet well and does not panic. When he has some momentum going into a contest he will regularly bust tackles, push men off and come out the other side. When an opposition player gets the ball he is a very good tackler and wraps up the man and ball nicely. He has a low centre of gravity and looks like he has done a fair bit of wrestling training in his time.

Viney broke his jaw earlier in the year and was out for 7 weeks which did disrupt his season a bit. Despite that he was one of the players of the Champs and showed all what kind of a player Melbourne is getting. Melbourne need a cultural change and with the clean out underway getting a kid like Viney in will only expedite the transition.

Anyway happy reading for those that are interested.

But its too late to use pick 3 on him. We've used it on Hogan.

He'll have to get used to having the tag as a 2nd Rnd - Pick No 27.

I think he's big enough to get over it.

Go Jacky.

Edited November 16, 2012 by dee-luded

[Roger Mellie 4,173]

I should've been out the door 30 mins ago, but find myself buried in Quigley's mock draft. His assessment of Toumpas v Wines is interesting.

An allround great read

[rjay 25,304]

I should've been out the door 30 mins ago, but find myself buried in Quigley's mock draft. His assessment of Toumpas v Wines is interesting.

An allround great read

Me too, good read....I'm going now.

[furious d 472]

But its too late to use pick 3 on him. We've used it on Hogan.

He'll have to get used to having the tag as a 2nd Rnd - Pick No 27.

I think he's big enough to get over it.

Go Jacky.

And I'm bloody happy about that too. I still would've used pick 3 if GC nominated him.

[Whispering_Jack 31,131]

He has a little bit to say about Oliver Wines -

Oliver Wines

DOB: 1/10/94 Ht: 188 Wt: 90

Wines is an inside mid who has shown really good development over the last couple of years improving in all areas of his game to the extent that he must now be considered with the elites of this draft. I would probably put him behind only Viney of the inside players available this year.

Wines is a big lad for his age and is more physically developed than many of the guys he played with and against. He has a good set of shoulders on him and is a stocky build although room to develop in his lower half. Don’t be deceived by the build however, he has very good endurance and has gone over 15 in the beep before. He spreads from contests very well and this is an area where he has improved a lot over the last year or so. At the Champs he showed a great ability to work hard forward into dangerous spots. It’s great to have the endurance but unlike some that come through Wines also has the footy smarts to know how to use it. This as much as his inside ability is one of the reasons I have him so high.

Wines has made a name for himself as an inside mid. I think he should do very well at that at AFL level but he is by no means assured of success. He is not the cleanest inside player you will see and is prone to fumbling a little (not all the time but enough to notice it). With less time to react at AFL level this could cause him problems and reduce his effectiveness. One of other main strengths at the moment is also something which could go either way at the next level. As a junior, Wines has shown great ability to absorb contact inside, not panic, retain his feet and balance, keep his arms free and get the ball out. At AFL level where guys are quicker, stronger and with better technique will he be able to do the same?

The innate ability to keep his composure could really help him under the increased pressure at the next level but on the other side of the coin if he hangs onto it too long he will be punished more often. I think his hands inside are quick but not elite. He has shown good ability to evaluate the situation and then execute and I expect this to hold him in good stead at the next level. He often starts outside of packs and works inside but he is not one to hit the pack at pace and come out the other side. He works in and holds with strength. He regularly gets first hands to the ball and can often be seen on his hands and knees at the bottom of a pack. On knees he has shown good ability to still be able to clear the ball.

As with a lot of young inside mids his kicking does need a bit of work but he will be working from a higher base than Watson say or Smith last year. He is not a particularly long kick and is a little inconsistent with his weighting. His set shot for goal is solid but not anything more than that and whilst he can get it from 50 that is the absolute limit of his range at the moment. His kicking is not a liability but neither is it a strength and it is something which he will need to work on further.

Pace wise he is mostly pretty average but he does have a nice 10m burst that he uses effectively which I see as a function of his endurance rather than necessarily quickness. He might not have a particularly high top end but he can get there quickly. Overall Wines is a pretty average athlete across the board and he tested that way at combine (except in endurance where he tested very well as expected). Another area where Wines has improved is with his marking. For an inside mid I think he is a good mark of the ball having reasonable hands above his head and being a very good judge of the ball in the air.

Wines is one of the better tacklers, technique wise this year. Unlike many he wraps but also uses his shoulder to drive the man. In tight he will get his fair share of tackles throughout his career. Overall he looks like a pretty good inside prospect.

[dee-luded 2,959]

And I'm bloody happy about that too. I still would've used pick 3 if GC nominated him.

absolutely.

I was pleased to see us work deals out to get the job done. we would have rolled over 5 years ago & picked Jack with 3.

Now we seem to be fighting back re the 2009 issues, using the obvious references of fair trade & other previous models to lead our arguments. About time. Go Dees.

[Devo 104]

Quigley is a jet. Highly rate this guy's opinions on the kids coming through.

[stranga 328]

The way he's written up Wines you'd think he should be picked in the mid 30s. Ok at this, average at that, may struggle etc. Either harsh or we are being dudded. I go with the former.

Edited November 16, 2012 by stranga

[Red and Bluebeard 2,101]

And here's me thinking this was a thread about either an irish band or an obscure single malt ...

[Guest NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

It's just one person's opinion but given that Quigley puts far more research into it than most on here, his thoughts on Wines are somewhat sobering.

I hope he doesn't turn out to be a Brock McLean type. That would be a disaster.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Wines was originally thought to be a 10-15 draft pick before the championships and the hype started.

[Whispering_Jack 31,131]

I'm just wondering why he doesn't apply to a university to write a Masters Thesis or a PhD on the subject. He's certainly getting there on the volume of content.

[Arrow 1,257]

Wines was originally thought to be a 10-15 draft pick before the championships and the hype started.

That's not unusual though, Jackson Macrae will go top 10 after the Champs and at the start of the season would have been a chance of a rookie spot. Older again, Steele Sidebottom was really a 5th round pick or a rookie until he kicked 10 or 12 in a TAC Cup Grand Final.

If our Wines did what Steele does week in week out I wouldn't be too disappointed!

[Hannibal 5,814]

That's not unusual though, Jackson Macrae will go top 10 after the Champs and at the start of the season would have been a chance of a rookie spot. Older again, Steele Sidebottom was really a 5th round pick or a rookie until he kicked 10 or 12 in a TAC Cup Grand Final.

If our Wines did what Steele does week in week out I wouldn't be too disappointed!

I'd want a better player for a top 5 pick and that's no disrespect to Sidebottom.

There's an under and over-rated thread on BF and it's interesting how often Wines appears in the 'over' category. I like what he offers, but as I've stated a couple of times, he appears to lack the "class" you expect with a top 5 draft pick.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I wondered what Rebecca had to do with anything except looking great.

Thanks for nothing Guys.

[dee-luded 2,959]

It's just one person's opinion but given that Quigley puts far more research into it than most on here, his thoughts on Wines are somewhat sobering.

I hope he doesn't turn out to be a Brock McLean type. That would be a disaster.

Who?

Its footballers we need anyway.

[ChaserJ 5,169]

Older again, Steele Sidebottom was really a 5th round pick or a rookie until he kicked 10 or 12 in a TAC Cup Grand Final.

Steele had a very solid Championships in 08 and was a likely top 15 pick well before the 10 goal haul. His partner inside 50 Tommy Rockliff was the one who no one wanted to take on. How silly.

Wines started his climb up the rankings after some stand out form early in the TAC Cup. Apparently was exceptional as soon as he got back from the Academy tour.

Emma Quayle sums him (and most everyone else) well here: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-pick-of-the-crop-20121117-29jct.html

[leucopogon 1,519]

I thought Wines was a lock at 4 but am not so sure any more. Would really love Toumpas and loved the description of Mayes goal kicking in the BF thread. Did anyone else read down through to the players Quigley had as Melbourne's 3rd round smokeys?

Tom Gribble from Geelong Falcons and a queenslander called Jesse Wallin. Under Quigley's advice I checked out Wallin's youtube package and was very impressed. Would have to be a million to one shot if we ended up getting him but he looks like a hard worker with great pace and a good defensive side of his game. Would love to see him in Demons jumper. Make it happen Neeldy!

[FC Melbourne 108]

Here's a bit of Wallan action thanks to http://www.facebook.com/pages/QLD-Scorpions/121782811279502.

Edited November 17, 2012 by FC Melbourne

[CBDees 3,167]

There is a few good blokes and if we miss Wines I hope that we would consider Grundy rather than just automatically opt for Toumpas or another elite insider. I am sure that Jones and Viney and Co. already give us reasonable midfield depth.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

I think I just jized a little.