Mental that pick 4 nonsense...

That would be the death blow for me. Giving pick 4 to one of the strongest clubs for 2 of their excess players, I can't believe we'd even consider it. My hope is that we are playing along with Collingwood to get West Coast to up their offer for Wellingham.

I'll be done with this club if they did this deal. 13 for Dawes is even too much, but I'd live with it, just.

Whilst I am all for bringing Dawes and/or Wellingham to the club, and I seem to rate Dawes a bit higher than others here, I too would be upset if we handed over pick 4 for them. They're just not worth it, not at all.

Pick 13 for Dawes is borderline, but probably acceptable; more so if we don't have to use 3/4 to get Viney. If 13 was all we had, I wouldn't be giving it up for him, but if we can pick twice with 3/4, then get Dawes for 13, that's OK I think.

Can't see how offfering a higher pick is going to convince a reluctant player.

If he's out of contract, does he have to agree? I mean, he can say 'I wanna go to West Coast', but being out of contract, does that mean Collingwood can trade him wherever they want?

Surely his options are to either go where Collingwood can get a trade it likes, or enter the draft, right?

This reminds me of the time the rumour went round that we intended to give up a first round pick for David Hale. Some laughed, many twisted themselves in knots trying to justify why it would be a good deal.

Pick 4 for Dawes and Wellingham would be utter stupidity from our club.

I'd live with pick 13 for Dawes. He's a 24 year old key forward who has demonstrated that he can play good footy. We've already had the development done for us and fills a hole that is tough to fill.

Pick 4 is fairly land, but pick 13 isn't as bad as many are making out IMO.

I'd rather we used pick 13 on a Garlett/Menzel/Stringer than an average footballer like Dawes.

And if we offered pick 4 for both pies, my confidence in the club is now zero

Pick 4 for Dawes and Wellingham is quaility for quantity.

A definite no.

They might be average players, but our list consists of players who are well below average. There is a reason we came last with just one win.

As for the #4 pick, we got Cale Morton with a #4 pick.

This kind of logic gives me the sheets.

Star players come from high picks. Yes there's exceptions, but the talent is at the pointy end of the draft, it's that simple. Yes, we've shanked our early picks before, but that doesn't mean we will forever. Spending your early picks on players who are "okay" is consigning yourself to be in the middle of the ladder forever.

If it's Beams and Sidebottom, I would consider it but neither of these two players are elite.

I'd live with pick 13 for Dawes. He's a 24 year old key forward who has demonstrated that he can play good footy. We've already had the development done for us and fills a hole that is tough to fill.

Pick 4 is fairly land, but pick 13 isn't as bad as many are making out IMO.

I disagree - floating pick 4 for Wellingham/Dawes then accepting pick 13 for Dawes is still a massive win for the Pies. It's that old politics trick of wanting a tax rise of 5% and floating a hike of 10% so when you sting the rubes for the 5% you wanted anyway they think they've won.

I'd live with pick 13 for Dawes. He's a 24 year old key forward who has demonstrated that he can play good footy. We've already had the development done for us and fills a hole that is tough to fill.

Pick 4 is fairly land, but pick 13 isn't as bad as many are making out IMO.

Pick 4 is certainly fairyland. How gullible does Eddie think we are? Perhaps we could offer GWS six of our 'get rid of' players for their pick 1 in the draft? Wise selection - and surely it is time for that - could/should see us with a keen youngster who will eventually contribute more than Dawes and/or Wellingham would.

Let's face it, Collingwood don't want them. It's not as though we're after Swan or Beams.

At 10.15am tomorrow we will get a better understanding on how aggressive our club will be through trade week, if we give up pick 3 for Viney I would think the club will hang on to 4 and 13, and use our second round pick and a player to land Dawes, if we can get Viney at our second round pick I don't mind using 13 on Dawes. It will mean we get three top ranked kids, a kpf entering his prime plus have the third pick in the preseason draft to hopefully get roberton or Koby Stevens.

I was on the Wellingham bandwagon for a while until my best mate showed me that his kicking efficiency was pretty ordinary. He'd fit in too well in that case.

Pick 4 should be off the table. Unless you are using it to bring in a star which neither of these players are, we need pick 4 to draft top end talent into the club.

If you go to Ben-Hur's Blue Sky thread (admittedly a bit has happened since that was posted) you can see that the foundation of a good team is there. We need to build on that. In B-H's example he has included a top forward in Cloke. And that team looks good. Put Dawes in there instead and it's far less inspiring.

I believe the club can turn its fortunes around relatively quickly. It will take more than one draft / trade / free agency period though. FWIW when I first saw the list of free agents my initial reaction was meh, I wonder who will be free agents next year. That might be a better time to strike.

I expect us to improve next year if only through better fitness, better understanding of the coach's requirements & better understanding of the games plan. Not a quantum leap though. We'll still struggle but we will see improvement. That's ok. I don't subscribe to the sky is falling, club will fold mentality of some. 2013 I believe will be a launch pad for a sustained period of finals appearances. But we can't afford many mistakes & trading pick 4 for a couple of structural role players would be one of those. Paying over the odds will set us back.

I'm happy to see mature players brought onto the list - but at the right price. I applaud the pickup of Byrnes because he fills a need and cost us nothing. I hope we draft his replacement as well, a Kennedy or Garlett who can learn from him. I'll applaud the recruitment of Dawes if we get him for his right price - a second round pick and / or a player. But if him coming to the club in any way costs us pick 4 I will fair dinkum spew up. Yes he would benefit our structure but I would rather see what Leigh Williams can offer in the big bodied lead-up role than overpay. Who knows what will be available next year. We don't have to fill all the holes in one go.

There's a concern that we can't attract players but who that we've really been after that we've missed. We may not look a great destination at face value but in 12 months I expect us to look quite promising. Mitch Clark came over because he bought into what we were doing. Others will as well, especially if we can show we are on the way back in 2013.

Moneyball gets quoted a fair bit but I prefer another baseball movie. If you build it, they will come. We're in the process of building it. I'm optimistic enough to think that if we don't make many farkups along the way, soon the MCG will once again be our Field of Dreams

Morabito is a great young talent whose been struck down by two knee recos and the injury plagued Hartlett is a better footballer than Wellingham.

Besides, every player in the draft beyond pick 4 needs to come into your calculations when assessing the merit of a particular pick. It's not static like you're asserting.

Dawes is worth pick 30 at best and Wellingham around pick 20. I'm all for getting some experience, but I don't want the club to be bent over and have the opposition use sandpaper instead of KY.

Thank God there are others who see the theft that this proposal would be against us if acted on. I am already starting to feel bile come up into my throat at the thought of it. Hopefully just papertalk and Sharrod doesn't like us anyway.

Shouldn't we have some bargaining power here both these players don't want to play at their club anymore - why would we go and pay Collingwood something valuable for them?

I would only accept Dawes for virtually nothing and they can pay half his contract for us Woewodin style.

Wellingham can G&GF after expressing his lack of interest and disgust at playing for the red and blue.

This is lunacy!! Freo of the 90's - 3 duds traded from Essendon so they could get Matt Lloyd.

If Pies use pick 4 to get Hogan in the mini draft we will regret this for the next decade. Neeld is showing desperation and making short term decisions.

Another rumour is the Pies are willing to offload Wellingham because his groin has ongoing issues and he has been nursed through the last two seasons - might explain the lack of penetration in his kicking. As for Dawes - pick 26 at best for this bloke.

Shouldn't we have some bargaining power here both these players don't want to play at their club anymore - why would we go and pay Collingwood something valuable for them?

I would only accept Dawes for virtually nothing and they can pay half his contract for us Woewodin style.

Wellingham can G&GF after expressing his lack of interest and disgust at playing for the red and blue.

Now you are talking. The Pies want to get rid of Dawes' contract as they have salary cap problems. No one else is biting even the guy who needs a power forward most and knows him best, MM. What does that tell you?

We take over his contract and either swap a Petterd or Martin or give our compo pick for Rivers/Moloney. That is it , end of story, or Pies can keep him. Maybe if through a deal Pies could get us Dawes and Stevens, I would consider 13.

Trade period hasn't even started. Clubs haven't even come to the table yet.

At this stage while there are discussions about targets etc, the actual cost of the trades is speculation. A lot of these reports male little sense and most will be shown to be crap.

Whilst I would not do this deal would people be happy with Viney at 3, O'Rourke at 4, Kennedy at 13 and Wellingham and Dawes traded for pick 26?

Surely some sort of Philthy joke. Must be they who are doing all the talking

For 4... You must be f#*king kidding Eddie !!!

Cam Pederson would be a better get and cost is heaps less. Why pay for a Lamborgini and get a Hyundai in return.

Totally agree. I know it's easier said than done but shouldn't the club be targeting players with potential instead of other club rejects.

It sounds to me as if they've missed some of the bigger free agents they'd hoped for, to get much needed experience and attitude into the list.

So now I think we are desperate to get the second tier experience in and are thinking of overpaying to do it. 

This seems now about protecting Neelds coaching group long enough to get some success and supporter support for our current list/culture plans.

Don't do it Neeldy and Melbourne. 

In boxing parlance, there's a time to duck and a time to weave.  Get it arse about and you get hurt. 

We've been on the wrong cycle for around 10 years now, ducking when we should have weaved.  The strategy was right but the the people making the decisions were wrong and we were 180 degrees out of cycle.

We bootomed in the years we should have been up, draft wise.

The Pies had they're recruiting team on song and lucked out to get Thomas and Pendlebury.  They got it right.

# when you're desperate, and realised you've made many mistakes sometimes the over-correction is deadly...  you can change course at the wrong time!

Now isn't the time to give up on the early picks in this draft ...

We don't have to have Wellingham.

Dawes would be handy for a 2nd Rnd pick, or + a player exchange.

Pick 3, pick 4 & pick 13 should be kept & used for class.

We can take the mature players we can this year,,, & if we don't get the number we wanted this year, & go again next Year.

Don't give the Pies Pick 4.

Whilst I would not do this deal would people be happy with Viney at 3, O'Rourke at 4, Kennedy at 13 and Wellingham and Dawes traded for pick 26?

Yes!

What we need to be are the hagglers.

We offer Eddie something just as stupid and suggest they come back when off the crack!!!!

Whilst I would not do this deal would people be happy with Viney at 3, O'Rourke at 4, Kennedy at 13 and Wellingham and Dawes traded for pick 26?

Yes. But the pies wont agree to both Wellingham and Dawes for pick 26.

If we are forced to use pick 3 on Viney then I would trade pick 26 for Dawes.

If we get Viney at 26 then forget about Dawes and get Pederson instead. Use our first round picks to set the club up for the next decade.