Oliver Wines

[Biffen 12,432]

Toumpas will be all right eventually but everything Neeld did has turned brown.

[hardtack 10,149]

Just how far away do you think Toumpas is from a BOG performance that rivals Wines? You're obviously happy enough to wait for it.

And just how far away from being an MFC player do you think Wines is?

We didn't take him when we should have, that is NOT Toumpas' fault. Toumpas will hopefully become a very worthwhile player for us and Wines is obviously a very good pick up for Port... move on.

[hardtack 10,149]

Not often you get players WANTING to put on the red and blue before being drafted. What a kick in the guts that must have been to him.

Good on him for showing us up, I'd be [censored] off too. Still a chance when Viney runs out as our captain in 4 or 5 years that Wines might have trekked back to Melbourne, but it sounds like he and Wingard have become very close mates in the last year.

"Showing us up"?? I thought he was putting in a very good performance for his team Port... I hadn't realised that the MFC were his motivator. Silly me!

[wattsup 470]

Seriously if we took wines and toumpas ended up at port who would be the better player now it would be toumpas, we have a track record for stuffing kids up but hopefully that all changes now with Roos and co

[DeeZee 6,853]

Wines is as tough as they come, will become a genuine A grader.

He was the one who kept Port in the game and in a position to win it.

[daisycutter 28,688]

i feel sick

[hardtack 10,149]

Wines is as tough as they come, will become a genuine A grader.

He was the one who kept Port in the game and in a position to win it.

I disagree, although Wines had a very very good game, I thought it was Westhoff who was the game breaker/winner... he played back when required to great effect and then went forward and kicked 4 goals in the second that completely swung the game in Port's favour... without his efforts, Port may well have been too far behind after the first quarter to recover.

Edited March 16, 2014 by hardtack

[praha 10,366]

He looks amazing.

Port look very good. Wines, Westhoff, some nice run and silky smooth skills coming out of half-back. Even Butcher looked good. They made Carlton look very second-rate for large parts of that game. Port was in 2nd gear for much of the first half, brought it up a notch and they looked like a top-4 side at times.

[John Crow Batty 8,307]

No use crying over spilt wine.

[picket fence 15,556]

Toumpas will be all right eventually but everything Neeld did has turned brown.

I don't want "all right eventually" gee this hurts all the way to hell.

While Wines "Blows them away" Toumpas will probably start at Casey!

It started with Tillbrook and has continued till this very day!

Neeld will go down as the greatest flop of a coach in MFC History and the recruiters who masterminded this should go and recruit ants for a sugar picnic!

Livid!

Edited March 16, 2014 by picket fence

[old dee 22,983]

I don't want "all right eventually" gee this hurts all the way to hell.

While Wines "Blows them away" Toumpas will probably start at Casey!

It started with Tillbrook and has continued till this very day!

Neeld will go down as the greatest flop of a coach in MFC History and the recruiters who masterminded this should go and recruit ants for a sugar picnic!

Livid!

You should add pf " if they are any good they get long term / career ending injuries"

[nutbean 8,837]

If MFC supporters don't think we stuffed up they're compelling fools.

Yet another reason to hate that flapwit Neeld. Not like we needed any. By god he made some mindnumbingly awful decisions.

and hes Jack VIneys best mate

Seemed to be a no brainer decision at the time

Oh well

I understand that Wines is showing acres more than Toumpas. If Wines continues his current trajectory no-one from that draft will be as good as him.

Is it a mistake ? Only in hindsight.

Mindnumbingly awful decision ? - only looking at it now not at draft time.

No brainer decision at the time ? - it may be now but not at the time of the draft.

So we all want to disregard what all major recruiters and experts knew at the time. Toumpas was rated in the top 3 - Wines wasn't.

As I have said before we punted on the likes of Gysberts and Cook - picks that we taken well before where they rated - they were absolute punts and absolute failures - the recruiters need to get kicked for those selections.

But it is nothing more than hindsight to slap recruiters for picking players sensibly acccording to their ratings.

[stuie 7,374]

recruiters who masterminded this should go and recruit ants for a sugar picnic!

Livid!

Viney recruited Toumpas, he is still Manager Player Personnel, but feel free to tell him your thoughts face to face.

[picket fence 15,556]

Ok but Nutbean, recruiting isn't an exact science! I never went with ratings, always with what our greatest need was. It really was elementary our greatest need was for Grunt! The fact we went for something different has nothing to do with draft order, ratings etc. I'll tell you now we stuffed up massively!

[picket fence 15,556]

Viney recruited Toumpas, he is still Manager Player Personnel, but feel free to tell him your thoughts face to face.

Do you know this as FACT?

[stuie 7,374]

Do you know this as FACT?

Todd Viney was head of recruitment when we drafted Toumpas.

See here for his current position too:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/the-club/people/staff-members

Seems pretty simple.

[rjay 24,046]

Viney recruited Toumpas, he is still Manager Player Personnel, but feel free to tell him your thoughts face to face.

Do you know this as FACT?

I don't think anyone really knows who made the final decision except the ones who made it and I'm not really sure it helps to know anyway.

...but I do cringe whenever I see Darling or Wines playing now.

[stuie 7,374]

Ok but Nutbean, recruiting isn't an exact science! I never went with ratings, always with what our greatest need was. It really was elementary our greatest need was for Grunt! The fact we went for something different has nothing to do with draft order, ratings etc. I'll tell you now we stuffed up massively!

Jack Viney doesn't count as grunt? Don't you think our greatest need was midfielders? Hence why we took one grunt mid and one skill mid?

[nutbean 8,837]

Ok but Nutbean, recruiting isn't an exact science! I never went with ratings, always with what our greatest need was. It really was elementary our greatest need was for Grunt! The fact we went for something different has nothing to do with draft order, ratings etc. I'll tell you now we stuffed up massively!

That's why you are not a recruiter and that's why you hear over and over again from anyone with knowledge say - rule one - you recruit the best player in the draft - need is a secondary consideration.

It isn't an exact science but that's exactly what recruiter are trying to make it - by attending every game they can, by assessing so many different areas of strengths and weaknesses at draft camps and doing psychological work-ups on the players.

So what you and others are saying is - don't pick the highest rated player available, pick for need , say like - Cook ? ( The All Australian TAC CHF) - unless of course he turns out to be a dud and then you should pick the highest rated player.

You can't have it both ways.

I am not silly enough to spout that Toumpas will be better than Wines but I won't lambast recruiters for taking an option that seemed logical and sensible at the time ( as opposed to recruiting Cook, Strauss and Gysberts).

Edit - on need - both Toumpas and Wines were midfielders - which was our need. I do recognise though that they are entirely different sort of midfielders.

Edited March 17, 2014 by nutbean

[binman 39,083]

Who cares now? The Toump is a demon and wines plays for an opposition club.

For whats's worth my two bobs worth is that Wines looks a gun and the jury is out on on the Toump.

A very similar scenario will have played out for Hawks fans when they took Hodge not Judd. For years Judd was the clear standout - indeed until he was in his mid twenties he was probably the best player in the league. Two premierships and a norm smith later I doubt too many Hawks fans would now say they made the wrong call.

[old dee 22,983]

Who cares now? The Toump is a demon and wines plays for an opposition club.

For whats's worth my two bobs worth is that Wines looks a gun and the jury is out on on the Toump.

A very similar scenario will have played out for Hawks fans when they took Hodge not Judd. For years Judd was the clear standout - indeed until he was in his mid twenties he was probably the best player in the league. Two premierships and a norm smith later I doubt too many Hawks fans would now say they made the wrong call.

I think that is the opinion shared by many binman.

As for the last paragraph I think you just domed Toumpas to mediocrity suggesting he might be a Hodge in the future.

IMO the "Hodge " for the Dees has not been recruited yet.

[Little Goffy 12,770]

I'm really hoping that Toumpas, listed as a forward/half-forward, takes a whole pile of leading marks across half forward in the second half against the Saints, sets up a string of scoring chances and kicks a couple of running goals himself, providing the decisive factor in a game where forward spark will be our great weakness.

Just because that'd be great anyway, and it would ease the Wines pain + sook, and because it is gives us all a chance to wheel out the 'Ryan Okeefe type player' cliche.

[old dee 22,983]

I'm really hoping that Toumpas, listed as a forward/half-forward, takes a whole pile of leading marks across half forward in the second half against the Saints, sets up a string of scoring chances and kicks a couple of running goals himself, providing the decisive factor in a game where forward spark will be our great weakness.

Just because that'd be great anyway, and it would ease the Wines pain + sook, and because it is gives us all a chance to wheel out the 'Ryan Okeefe type player' cliche.

He has to make the team first, IMO that is far from certain

[Hannibal 5,814]

Is it a mistake ? Only in hindsight.

Recruiters are paid for foresight.

[stuie 7,374]

Recruiters are paid for foresight.

Which is why maybe they saw further ahead than you.