Neeld takes on the 'but we won 8½ games last year' argument

[The heart beats true 18,183]

Watts can be Goddard-like: Neeld

About 2:45 into this weeks 'Coaches Office' Mark makes a very interesting argument about experience and it's impact on success.

To paraphrase:

• It's all about the experience on the ground, not on the list

• 144 games played prior to last round and only 3 of those had been won by a team with less than 65 games average experience (MFC winning 2 of them)

• last season we fielded a team with more experience on 6 occasions, which obviously resulted in better performance

• we are essentially 2 seasons behind but we clearly have time on our side

Thought it was fascinating to see how directly experience effects the results not just for us but across the competition.

[Whispering_Jack 31,144]

Western Bulldogs coach Brendan McCartney made what was virtually the identical point on AFL Insider about his team. However, if that's the basis on which one is comparing 2012 with 2011 then one needs to have the stats for both years. My guess is that this only answers part of the question with training and conditioning, injuries and the need to adjust to a completely different style of play also being factors with some of them being interrelated.

[pantaloons 2,019]

Good value out of this story. I think it's been re-heated and served at this time every year since 2008.

Hopefully we can use free agency to address this quick smart.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Experience is a critical factor & one thing Neeld can't teach is experience.

Nuffies tend to sugarcoat last year. Sure, we won 8.5 games but in reality we were going backwards. We beat Adelaide & Freo at their lowest ebb, were underwhelming against GC x2, scraped home against a couple of the worst Brisbane & Port sides ever assembled, our 2 good wins were against Richmond (who went past us later) & Essendon in the middle of a form slump. The only decent side we got within a bull's roar of was the round 1 draw with Sydney (who we beat by 74 points in our previous meeting. The rest of the year was marred by thumpings, tactical ineptitude & basically failing every test possible. 186 was the straw that broke the camels back but there were other embarrassing losses too; we lost by 10 goals to a crap Bulldogs team when finals were on the line.

Nuffies also point to Neeld's quotes about being the "hardest team to play against" & wonder why it hasn't been the case in his first year. Like it was some iron clad promise to do it overnight. They fail to recognise just how crap the list is. Much is made of CAC's inability to net us a star from 2000-2006 but out of the rebuild years 07-11 we only really have Trengove, Grimes & Clark as keepers with the latter two having a fair share of injury woes.

Apart from that the list is stacked with tweeners, failed picks & injury prone kids who lack experience.

Blease 18/84 matches since drafted

Gysberts 19/62

Strauss 15/84

Tapscott 25/62

The above are all early draft picks who haven't played nearly enough games. This is a major part of the problem.

[tonatopia 278]

Hawks 2008.

No excuses there.

That's what worries me about Neeld, excuses, excuses, excuses.

You don't hear that from good coaches.

We should change our name from Melbourne Demons to Melbourne Excuses.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Nuffies tend to sugarcoat last year. Sure, we won 8.5 games but in reality we were going backwards.

Some nuffies treacle coat this year by claiming that winning 3 games this year (2 of them against GWS and GC and playing Essendon at their lowest ebb) is in reality going forward. Imagine that.

[The heart beats true 18,183]

Hawks 2008.

No excuses there.

That's what worries me about Neeld, excuses, excuses, excuses.

You don't hear that from good coaches.

We should change our name from Melbourne Demons to Melbourne Excuses.

So why haven't Hawthorn won a flag since 2008? (and remember I don't want to hear excuses).

[Johnny Karate 559]

Hawks 2008.

How were they travelling in 2005? They were [censored] & their nuffy equivalents were calling for Clarkson's head. Sound familiar?

No excuses there.

Sure there were. Clarkson inherited a list of Crawford, Croad, Sewell, Campbell, Osborne, Bateman, Mitchell & Hodge who were all key parts of their premiership side. He also added the likes of Franklin, Roughead, Lewis & Rioli in the drafts.

Neeld is 5 minutes in & has inherited crap.

Thats what worries me about Neeld, excuses excuses excuses.

You dont hear that from good coaches.

Ever heard of Kevin Sheedy, Mick Malthouse? Masters of deflection & excuses. Their subtlety would probably be lost on the likes of you though.

We should change our name from Melbourne Demons to Melbourne Excuses.

I don't know about that. But perhaps the club should offer a service for some supporters to voluntarily have "nuffie" stamped on their forehead?

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Hawks 2008.

No excuses there.

That's what worries me about Neeld, excuses, excuses, excuses.

You don't hear that from good coaches.

We should change our name from Melbourne Demons to Melbourne Excuses.

I'm pretty sure Hawthorn had Buddy,Hodge,Sewell,Crawford,Croad and Cyril. We have Nathan Jones and a injured Mitch Clarke. Your mistaking excuses for facts. Our list compared to a premiership list is horrible. God I'm so sick of hearing this crap about Neeld it makes demonland easy to stay away from at the moment. Some on here our just too thick to see what our list is.

[monoccular 17,644]

Hawks 2008.

No excuses there.

Thats what worries me about Neeld, excuses excuses excuses.

You dont hear that from good coaches.

We should change our name from Melbourne Demons to Melbourne Excuses.

So, is a good coach one who has a good and experienced list or one who plans ahead to achieve success even though he starts with an underdeveloped and inexperienced list?

Would Malthouse do better with our list at this time?

Would Neeld do well with Collingwood or Hawthorn's current list?

Both are obviously unanswerable questions but worth considering nonetheless.

Successful coaches (not necessarily the best coaches though) don't need excuses.

[old dee 24,003]

I'm pretty sure Hawthorn had Buddy,Hodge,Sewell,Crawford,Croad and Cyril. We have Nathan Jones and a injured Mitch Clarke. Your mistaking excuses for facts. Our list compared to a premiership list is horrible. God I'm so sick of hearing this crap about Neeld it makes demonland easy to stay away from at the moment. Some on here our just too thick to see what our list is.

Agree with your sentiments cfh I wrote the below last night.

But alas today is looking similar

"Must be me but Demonland is depressing the crap out of me tonight.

Being negative is natural in our current position

But the vitriol from some people leaves me in dismay.

Tomorrow I hope will be better.

Goodnight. "

Edited August 8, 2012 by old dee

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Agree with your sentiments cfh I wrote the below last night.

But alas today is looking similar

"Must be me but Demonland is depressing the crap out of me tonight.

Being negative is natural in our current position

But the vitriol from some people leaves me in dismay.

Tomorrow I hope will be better.

Goodnight. "

I know mate I think Julia Gillard will start taxing Mark Neeld threads since there are so many of them.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Some nuffies treacle coat this year by claiming that winning 3 games this year (2 of them against GWS and GC and playing Essendon at their lowest ebb) is in reality going forward. Imagine that.

Who? Essendon were 8-1 when Melbourne defeated them. Hardly their lowest ebb. Perhaps some are also saying that this year is an extension of the rot that set in last year? Imagine that.

Perhaps saying that Neeld doesn't deserve the sack after 5 minutes in the chair isn't the same as the whole "I believe in Neeld" crew? Imagine that.

[The heart beats true 18,183]

Our list compared to a premiership list is horrible. God I'm so sick of hearing this crap about Neeld it makes demonland easy to stay away from at the moment. Some on here our just too thick to see what our list is.

I was thinking the exact same thing after watching the replay from the weekend CBH. Blokes like Dunn, Bail and Joel Mac looked to have a lot more time and space on the weekend. It proves the theory that they are handy VFL players but can't stand up against more pressure. We looked like a decent side in the first quarter on Sunday but that side would have been annihilated by anyone inside the top 10 teams in the AFL.

A coach can't get blood from an inexperienced, talentless, injury prone stone.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I was thinking the exact same thing after watching the replay from the weekend CBH. Blokes like Dunn, Bail and Joel Mac looked to have a lot more time and space on the weekend. It proves the theory that they are handy VFL players but can't stand up against more pressure. We looked like a decent side in the first quarter on Sunday but that side would have been annihilated by anyone inside the top 10 teams in the AFL.

A coach can't get blood from an inexperienced, talentless, injury prone stone.

Yeah spot on mate. If the players you had mentioned had showed massive signs of being stars for the last 2 or 3 years I could understand some of the Neeld is no good crew but I haven't seen anything more then as you say good VFL players. How can people not see this?

[daisycutter 29,892]

Agree with your sentiments cfh I wrote the below last night.

But alas today is looking similar

"Must be me but Demonland is depressing the crap out of me tonight.

Being negative is natural in our current position

But the vitriol from some people leaves me in dismay.

Tomorrow I hope will be better.

Goodnight. "

it's not the vitriol that is the problem od, it is the quality of the vitriol

at least on 'ology the vitriol was often entertaining

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

it's not the vitriol that is the problem od, it is the quality of the vitriol

at least on 'ology the vitriol was often entertaining

I can't agree reading from the same handful of people that our list is awesome and we won 8 games last year is highly entertaining. It's right up there with the shire in terms of entertainment value.

[old dee 24,003]

it's not the vitriol that is the problem od, it is the quality of the vitriol

at least on 'ology the vitriol was often entertaining

Perhaps it is just me this week DC.

But I swear if another "Neeld" thread appears this week you will hear my screaming all over Melbourne as the people in white coats carry me away.

PS perhaps we need a new thread called

" No Neeld talk please"

Edited August 9, 2012 by old dee

[DemonWA 3,940]

I like that the coaches office has become a mini Q&A in recent times.

The question about the win loss records was a good one, and i must admit i'm only partially sold by Neelds responce.

When Neeld got the job i warmed to him because he seemed like he was a no excuses, no nonsence type of coach. Latley he's been finding some pretty obscure stats to somewhat justify the sides plight.

I'm sorry, but the games experience excuse doesnt wash for me. How can you justify the losses with a stat like that, when you are in a position which has the ultimate say in selecting a side? If its such a big deal why not pick a more balanced side when it comes to youth and experience, and why let experienced guys like Green retire?

[daisycutter 29,892]

I can't agree reading from the same handful of people that our list is awesome and we won 8 games last year is highly entertaining. It's right up there with the shire in terms of entertainment value.

Huh?

What's that comment got to do with vitriol or quality of vitriol?

Do you have a comprehension problem?

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Huh?

What's that comment got to do with vitriol or quality of vitriol?

Do you have a comprehension problem?

Sorry mate I presumed I knew vitriol's definition. My dad once told me presumption is the mother of all F..K ups and it is ringing in my ears again.

[thaipantsman 180]

Perhaps it is just me this week DC.

But I swear if another "Neeld" thread appears this week you will hear my screaming all over Melbourne as the people in white coats carry me away.

PS perhaps we need a new thread called

" No Neeld talk please"

Yu will hear more threads until the hot air turns into performance. Not necessarily wins but a hint that good things are coming. Just go with it. Proof of the putting is in the eating? I was sceptical after the lions game. Still give Mark the benefit of the doubt however would be crazy to follow and tick all the blind freddie posts about his performance to date. All teams have injuries and dramas. Never hard to find an excuse. Next year midway well all have a much better idea.

Not anti Melbourne to be critical of the clubs direction? I am bored with the continual barrage of mark being nbt posts...

[daisycutter 29,892]

Sorry mate I presumed I knew vitriol's definition. My dad once told me presumption is the mother of all F..K ups and it is ringing in my ears again.

that's ok, you just had me confused

[Axis of Bob 11,906]

The Hawthorn 2008 GF team had an average of 107 games experience per player.

Last week we had 72. Against Port we had 64.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Perhaps it is just me this week DC.

But I swear if another "Neeld" thread appears this week you will hear my screaming all over Melbourne as the people in white coats carry me away.

PS perhaps we need a new thread called

" No Neeld talk please"

Or at the very least one 'Mark Neeld circlejerk superthread' where the 'I believe in Neeld' crew & the 'OMG I can't believe we're not the hardest team to play against yet. Sack Mark Neeld!' mob can continue masturbating in & stop clogging up the boards with 50 threads on the same effing topic?!

Oh as well as permabans for anyone who let's their ego get the better of them by posting a new thread on it!?