Dermie and Robert Walls on SEN

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

Ask a kid, when did the Rot set in?

A: The kid thinks back, his whole life is just 19 years. Oh, the rot set in last year in Geelong.

The truth as I see it is, the Rot never left us.

We were the Fuscias Until Checker Hughes came from the Tigers to Coach, & said to himself, how do I get this mob to play Hard??? first step, get rid of 'Fuscias', & Bring in Demons...

2nd step, tell them to go out and play like real men,,, don't play them if they play like sooks.

Harden them up. bring in some tough bastards.

MY point is the Culture of 'Cushy' is inbred, into the walls of the MCC/G.

We had to import toughness, but when we sack the 'King Tough Bastard', the impotence Ekes out of the walls yet again.

The Rot has been going for well over a hundred years, Except for spells where we bought in some Special Hardness to Lead Us. We got Flags in a few quick spells of success, punctuated by long stints of Failure.

Good post DL - I've raised this issue before when talking about our culture.

In the history of our club we have been a "successful team" for one brief period - 1939-1964. This was under the leadership of Checker Hughes who as you said came from the Tigers and had to beat the Fuschias out of us to get us playing like Demons. This was carried on by Norm Smith who was tutored under Hughes and came from "the other side of the river" in Northcote. We sacked Smith for political reasons and immediately went back to our Fuschia ways.

The only other period since we have had any semblance of "toughness" about us was during the Northey years, another import from Richmond who was tutored by Tommy Hafey. Other than this period (which saw us win 10 of our 12 flags) we have been quite rubbish. Compare that to most other teams except Footscray and St. Kilda (who by the way have only won one flag each) and you can see that our culture is seriously sick. Compare us to even teams like the Pies who have only won 2 flags since 1958. Even though they didn't achieve the ultimate success they did make many GF's during this period (hence the Colliwobbles) and won more than their fair share of H&A games. Do you think when Eddie says things publicly like "this isn't Melbourne where you can just walk in and take our players" it is just an off-the-cuff remark? Understanding how we are perceived by the wider football community is key to understanding how we might be able to fix our "culture". It's like addiction, the first step is admitting you have a problem.

Yet you barrack for this team... Why?

You can't choose your relatives or your football team. Like most of us we are born into this for better or worse.

I will never regret barracking for the Demons but sometimes I just wish they didn't break my heart on such a consistent basis.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Torture - definition. Long suffering melbourne members being seeingly compelled to go to each home game knowing full well they will walk away angry, frustrated and confused

[Chook 15,013]

Torture - definition. Long suffering melbourne members being seeingly compelled to go to each home game knowing full well they will walk away angry, frustrated and confused

It appears that's how our players feel after a game as well.

[Footynut 302]

Where to start on this....

We have a coach who is very clear on gameplan and this will either make or break him or the club. One thing for sure he wont change it and or tolerate players not showing the discipline to stay the course.

Stuie...on the face of it of course you are correct. Our current list played flashy football that occasionally got us good wins against teams that were susceptible to a loss interstate. On top of that our better performances generally included players through the midfield who haven't really made it on the field this year. (Think Scully, Sylvia, Moloney not to mention Jurrah up forward)

However as stated by others the trending of this gameplan was not obvious to anyone (just review threads on DB and lack of gameplan last year) including people at the club. Our team although seemingly showing improvement was not really on track to do anything long term in terms of matching it with the good teams.

This year we are almost 5 games in and now we see this new gameplan and edge being implemented by a coach who by the way also lives in Northcote. This coach Mark Neeld will stay the course and clearly needs time to adjust the list to the way he believes this team needs to play long term to win.

To give you an idea according to GPS data the players are running 30% further this year during games than last year. The gameplan pushes them right to the edges of the boundary and then asks for counter attacks to be made by getting the entire team to switch to the other side of the ground at pace. This asks alot of the players in terms of fitness. That is why they make really poor decisions and have been generally fading after halftime. When Mark arrived he knew straight away the list wasn't where it needed to be in terms of fitness to go with a gameplan that could challenge for the ultimate success. But he is determined to change this.

People percieved us with all the investment in coaching and a new fitness regime that we would automatically be better. Reality is that was never going to happen. There is understandably a lack of patience from many...we have all been through a lot of pain and with loss after loss doubt creeps in.

But let me tell you this. Mark Neeld has belief that what he is doing will generate long term success and he will not bend from that. People point to his media appearances being a distraction and that perhaps he shouldn't have said 'the hardest team' comment. But reality is that is his aspiration and he totally believes in it. Further to that, leaders at the club have expressed to me that they totally understand and believe in the gameplan and what is occurring. More than one has confided that under DB they really struggled to know the gameplan. With Neeldy they know what it is and agree totally with the direction.

So people get ready for a season of more pain. I expect people will now jump on me for trying to impart what I know. Some will try to discredit me. Some will continue to pull apart Mark and his gameplan. They will continue to pot the 4 game coach expecting him to have turned us into a powerhouse by now.

I wish everyone had the privilege and benefit I have had to spend time with Mark and other leaders of the club. When you actually see what is happening inside it is far more tangible to understand the facts as opposed to the many opinions sprouted about the club. I'll give you another example. When Mark started the club didn't even have the IT programs all other clubs had and he had to convince the club to purchase it and implement it. There are many more embarrassing examples that Mark has had to address that were big gaps in terms of getting the foundations right for the football department.

It kills me to see our own people on this site make uninformed comments based purely on what they see on gameday. Although it is entirely understandable. (Believe me it kills me too) I wanted to write to try and provide some sort of solace to those that may wish to believe what I say. I see in many the passion and heart and pain that to have in my heart.

All I can ask each of you is be realistic with expectations. Please don't blame Mark who is a brand new senior coach trying to change the club and set it up for success. Some senior players have a lot to answer for but I know you all know that. It is not accepting mediocrity just realistic based on where we have come from.

In my job I am fortunate to have a lot to do with a number of clubs and I must confess MFC has been the club by far who are always behind trying to catch up. Mark is leading the way with fixing this disparity but it doesn't all happen and click overnight. The comment from Mick Malthouse about things other than football was an articulation of the fact the club has been paving the foundations and multiple levels to finally put everything into the Football team.

Believe it or not good times are ahead but not without a lot of pain first.

Stick with the Dees the light at the end of the tunnel will come!

Edited April 28, 2012 by Footynut

[Guest José Mourinho]

Epic post.

Thanks for taking the time to write that, footynut.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Epic post.

Thanks for taking the time to write that, footynut.

Yeah, spot on.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Thanks Footy Nut. I have confidence in Mark Neeld as long as the full club gets behind him and allows hom to actually do..."whatever it takes".

[Range Rover 1,935]

Yep, fantastic post Footynut. Deserves to be read by every member (and non-member) on the forum.

[angrydee 842]

Totally agree Fn. I Know a number of people involved with other clubs, and ALL rate Neeld very very highly.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I think your post deserves its own thread and to be stickied FN.

[Roger Mellie 4,021]

IHave had a wine or 2 this eveninhg so dates are not forthcoming, but does anyone remember during the Daniher era, that we would have finished at the south end of the ladder, the previous year. We would win a couple of games and then be scheduled to play last/second last on the ladder (Richmond/Carlton - whoever). They would towel us up. I could never fathom how we didn't think we needed to turn up to play against sides lower than us on the ladder, when we had achieved absolutely nothing.

For me that's when the rot set in

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

That was a symptom not the cause - has happened for as long as I've been supporting the Demons even during the Northey years we had massive mid-season slumps that costs us the double chance. 2006 we would have finished top 4 but we lost to Carlton (who only won 3 games) twice. 2004 we were on top of the ladder after round 18 then lost to the Blues (again) at Princes Park in another year when they were rubbish.

This getting ahead of ourselves and falling in a heap against rubbish and not-so-rubbish teams because we feel like we've done the hard yards is symptomatic of the culture that DL has discussed above. We need hard bastards from outside the club to show us that you don't relax until the siren goes and you've achieved nothing til you've got the premiership cup.

[binman 42,920]

Do yourselves a favour and don't get too hung up on the results this season. You'll be in for a lot more anguish if you do.

Yes i agree. Wins are not the key, its the consistency of effort, the repeat game after game of tonight's effort.

It's perhaps a bit of a strange attitude but although i desperately wanted to see a win tonight (every week) the thought crossed my mind an honourable defeat will help more in the long term than a win in so far as improving our draft options in November (when Neeld will really have a chance to influence who plays for the dees over the next 5 years).

[Footynut 302]

I guess part of what I'm inferring above as well as trying to provide a different perspective, is that there are alot of people out there being paid to fill media content. Most of them are guessing as are many posters on here. Dermie and Walls both have rehashed what everyone else has said but only understand a small % of the story. They view the on field behaviors and try to draw conclusions. When you consider it's a Journos job to provide as many angles as possible to a story they really are extremely lazy.

Thanks to all those who supported by last post, I would be happy to see it read by all on this forum so that they may have the benefit of getting access to the layers that sit under the outcomes they are seeing.

Good progress last night by the team. I'm sure you can all see what Mark is doing is starting to create a very different team. How long has it been since we were able to compete in a rain affected match...

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

Robert walls is a moron.

Robert is a former coach who got sacked and has a soft spot for other coaches in the same position. But he has got it so so wrong here.

He says we fired Bailey after one poor match (the 186 game). That is not true.

Round 2 - Hawthorn - the Dees were 28 points up just before 1/2 time. By the start of the last quarter we were 40 points down. arguably our worst 3rd Q in memory.

Round 6 - West Coast. Game over at quarter time. arguably our worst 1st Q in memory.

Round 8 - North. MFC 25 points up early in the second. Nearly 40 points down by 3/4 time.

Round 10 - Carlton - Another 6 goal performance from MFC. Carlton doubled our score.

Round 12 - Collingwood. Another 6 goals from the Dees. Collingwood kicked 10 in a row in the last quarter.

Round 15 - The Dogs. We played a middle ranked side and got done by 64 points. They killed us in the last and i believe Bailey was lucky to see out the round.

Round 19 - Geelong - 186.

In every one of these games, the opposition got a run-on and we couldn't deal with it. After 4 years with Bailey we did not have a game plan to cope with adversity.

Robert is very selective with his stats. He says Melbourne won 8 1/2 games in 2010 and because we won 7 1/2 games by round 19 (of 24 rounds) therefore we were improving slightly, but the stat is misleading.

Yes we did have 3 big wins against GC, Freo and Adelaide in 2011, but these teams were struggling with form, injury and inexperience.

It's the same story with the win over Essendon. We caught them during their 5 game losing streak.

Compare the 2011 results with the previous year and we clearly did better in 2010. 2 close games against Collingwood; just falling short against the Dogs and Hawthorn, and thrashing another final 8 side in Sydney. We were going backwards in 2011, and that's why Bailey was fired.

Edited April 29, 2012 by DirtyDees DDC

[Footynut 302]

Absolutely nailed it DD DDC!!

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Yep, fantastic post Footynut. Deserves to be read by every member (and non-member) on the forum.

Great post Footynut. I remain absolutely convinced that Mark Neeld will transform this club. I've said it before, if he had a number, I'd put it on the back of my guernsey.

I love the man. He is currently making decisions, and adopting structures and approaches, that this club has shirked for far too long.

No doubt, there will be more pain - but, unlike the pain we've endured over the last few decades, I reckon this year's pain will be worth it.

[Footynut 302]

We are on the same page for sure RB. Love the passion and belief you have in our leader.

[diesel 420]

Robert is a former coach who got sacked and has a soft spot for other coaches in the same position. But he has got it so so wrong here.

He says we fired Bailey after one poor match (the 186 game). That is not true.

I heard Walls when he said that. It really annoyed the shite out of me! As someone who follows and watches the MFC week-in and week-out 186 was the exclamation mark on a development program going nowhere.

Walls reckons the fact we won more games each year under DB was THE indicator we were tracking in the right direction. Makes me wonder if Walls ever closely watched any Melbourne games?

[Footynut 302]

I heard Walls when he said that. It really annoyed the shite out of me! As someone who follows and watches the MFC week-in and week-out 186 was the exclamation mark on a development program going nowhere.

Walls reckons the fact we won more games each year under DB was THE indicator we were tracking in the right direction. Makes me wonder if Walls ever closely watched any Melbourne games?

the answer is no....his analysis is lazy and simplistic

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

I heard Walls when he said that. It really annoyed the shite out of me! As someone who follows and watches the MFC week-in and week-out 186 was the exclamation mark on a development program going nowhere.

Walls reckons the fact we won more games each year under DB was THE indicator we were tracking in the right direction. Makes me wonder if Walls ever closely watched any Melbourne games?

Yes i heard that too. I was in the car and couldn't ring but i sent a text later. That opinion of Walls needs to be challenged.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Footynut and Dirtydees it was a privilege to read both of your posts.

[timD 994]

Footynut and Dirtydees it was a privilege to read both of your posts.

Ditto

[Tony Tea 2,809]

For future reference it is vitally important to remember that Robert Walls will ALWAYS support a sacked coach.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

For future reference it is vitally important to remember that Dermott Brereton will ALWAYS attempt - futilely - to use words which he does not know the meaning of.