THE SPIRIT WAS THERE, BUT ...

[mauriesy 7,287]

... must play 50-70 meters out from goal ...

... Play him off the right forward flank ...

... Deep left forward pocket ...

... Needs to play the right wing and run the channel 10 meters past each end of the square ...

... Stick with him inside 50 on the right forward pocket ...

I don't understand with modern football, where there's effectively a couple of backs, a couple of forwards, and 18 midfielders, where the game is full of transition plays and defence to the same, where you build 'structures' around the contested ball and stoppages, where you can forward press and conversely flood, where players have to have endurance and spread and run to space ... how you can actually just stick players anywhere.

[Ned 156]

In the cold light of day and reading these posts, perhaps it wasn't such a disaster. I guess the source of my frustration is I believe we should've won and I know how much confidence that would've instilled in the group and, more than anything, been a fitting send off for Jimmy.

[Hells Gates 505]

Our ball use was poor last night. On the positive, at least we tried to find an open man more often and bombed it less.

Our team selection is still concerning. The backline is still way too tall and unskilled. Five KPD is two too many. Tom McDonald is not skilled enough and needs more time to develop in the VFL and Joel Macdonald is letting us down by foot. Next week we need to get Grimes, Tapscott and Blease into the backline so we have some run and kicking skill out of defence. IMO Tapsott won’t make it in any other role than HBF. He lacks pace and he didn’t have the required impact from a sub. I would also consider experimenting with Morton as a third tall KPD, but St Kilda might be too tall this week.

Our midfield is way too slow and the Dogs exploited our lack of pace by employing a third man up to wack it clear of the stoppages. We desperately need to get some pace around the ball. Get Frawley in the guts, along with Bartram and Bail. We also need to consider swapping Martin for Jamar, who has dropped off badly.

Davey has lost his pace and Neeld took too long to tag Murphy.

The bench of Watts, Moloney and Howe at half time made no sense to me.

Neither does your post.

[robbiefrom13 887]

This was our only real chance at victory until round 13 and we screwed it up.

you may turn out to have been right, but we haven't lost those games yet. I will be watching out for more of what was there to be seen yesterday - signs that show things are changing. Goodness knows, the team came out of last season needing some positives, and maybe we have underestimated the mentally unsettling effects of all that has happened during the off-season. I've scaled down my expectations, but not in any permanent way. I expect it to be absorbingly interesting, watching what we will manage to achieve in these supposedly unwinnable games. I predict it will not be all bad, as some wrist-slitters seem to want to tell us.

Edited April 23, 2012 by robbiefrom13

[Striker475 696]

We had equal inside 50's against a team who couldn't get it inside 50 the previous week. This is not progress, just comparative hopelessness. St.Kilda's defence will tear us apart next week....10 goals plus.

The number of times the dogs had runners ready to get away from the stoppage from the inside of it, while we camped ours to the boundary line side, was just amazing. I just kept seeing them get the ball and feed it inside, then run away. I just don't understand why Mark Neeld doesn't set up our runners at the stoppage to counter this.

Oh, and Mark Jamar is on borrowed time......too one dimensional, and it's a pretty ordinary dimension at the moment.

Also, midfielders need to keep their feet. Brent Moloney always does, Jordie McKenzie never does......

Just to go against this, the Dogs actually beat the Aints for I50s, their lack of forward targets smashed them though (as it did today).

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

This is the crux of your feeling dispirited.

Our list is quite good, but too many have been allowed to immitate art. the art of getting soft possessions in the lazy back pocket from kickins. And thereon playing tempo footy for the last 6 or 7 years...

The draft picks from '07, 08 learnt this attitude of bruise free stuff.

Now they have to unlearn it & start to put the head over the ball.

Playing tempo footy for years has stopped their development, of learning to play under pressure, kicking & the like.. Thats where it is.

Yes DL. Please don't tell me what i already know.

I want ro find out who is responsible for letting this sh!t happen.

It has cost this club dearly

70,000 should have been there to say goodbyes to Jimmy. But the last 4 years have been absolutely wasted. The current board have to take full responsibility for this.

Off field great

On field woeful.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Just on the Morton handball - does any blame go to Moloney on that? I saw someone in another thread mention that it was a fair handball in front of Moloney, but Moloney was unable to accelerate enough to reach it due to having legs of lead late in the game. This thought did occur to me at the time, but I dismissed it because I thought I was probably giving Morton a little too much benefit of the doubt, but I'm interested to hear others thoughts on it.

In this instance, he just wasn't quick enough, but he rarely is.

Morton's handball wasn't perfect, but I can forgive a skill error.

I really think Moloney is on borrowed time and we should trade him as soon as we can.

He has a high value, but his agility is woeful, and the way we now need him to play... well, he's just not that type of player.

I keep saying it - he's a one-trick pony.

And he's not going to get better.

[daisycutter 29,613]

Just watched the replay after being at the game today... Not sure why I felt the need.

It's very evident that Watts has almost everything as a footballer... except for intensity. He really could have been the difference tonight, he had 4 or 5 opportunities to really shine but just couldn't step it up a notch.

What is it going to take?

Torture a kitten in front of him? Jumper leads to the nipples?

Why doesn't he care?

I think a cigarette lighter to the testicles would do the trick nicely?

[Arrow 1,257]

Trengove is an average AFL Footballer. He has no pace. I am sure he is a top kid, but a pick number 2 in the draft he is not.

Hope you're feeling better after the sleep. Disastrous call.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Hope you're feeling better after the sleep. Disastrous call.

No...Wake up call IMO...On field our new captain is yet to excite me..he has not enough pace for the role he plays.

[Hells Gates 505]

This is what hurts me the most, just cant remove it from my head!

Scully #1,

Trengove #2,

Sylvia #3,

Morton #4,

McLean #5

There could of been a top 4 midfield by now, any way you want to look at it.

[Arrow 1,257]

In this instance, he just wasn't quick enough, but he rarely is.

Morton's handball wasn't perfect, but I can forgive a skill error.

I really think Moloney is on borrowed time and we should trade him as soon as we can.

He has a high value, but his agility is woeful, and the way we now need him to play... well, he's just not that type of player.

I keep saying it - he's a one-trick pony.

And he's not going to get better.

Are you kidding?! Let me guess you're also one of the guys who said Clark is a waste of money and that Trengove will only ever be an average footballer?

Re-watch the last quarter Moloney was one of about 4 who put his hand up. He bleeds Red and blue and that is considerably more than half of the people who pull on the jumper. All I can say is go watch the replay because it's a ridiculous comment and undeserving.

[Arrow 1,257]

No...Wake up call IMO...On field our new captain is yet to excite me..he has not enough pace for the role he plays.

He finished in the top 2% for the 20m sprint for the 08' draft class.

If he has no pace look to blame the fitness staff, who have obviously changed his body shape because we picked up a quick one so you connect the dots.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Are you kidding?! Let me guess you're also one of the guys who said Clark is a waste of money and that Trengove will only ever be an average footballer?

Re-watch the last quarter Moloney was one of about 4 who put his hand up. He bleeds Red and blue and that is considerably more than half of the people who pull on the jumper. All I can say is go watch the replay because it's a ridiculous comment and undeserving.

Nope, the exact opposite.

Clark is fantastic, and Trengove will be a star.

But I've been saying for 2 years now that Moloney has to go, and I think Sylvia should too.

I'd trade them for other mature players though.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,166]

Just on the Morton handball - does any blame go to Moloney on that? I saw someone in another thread mention that it was a fair handball in front of Moloney, but Moloney was unable to accelerate enough to reach it due to having legs of lead late in the game. This thought did occur to me at the time, but I dismissed it because I thought I was probably giving Morton a little too much benefit of the doubt, but I'm interested to hear others thoughts on it.

The Morton handball should have been better however Moloney cannot handle any ball that does not hit him completely on target. Any good midfielder would have been able to manage that ball.

[binman 42,896]

Apologies if this has been raised (haven't read the thread) but what is up with Frawley. He was woeful yesterday and does not not looked switched on , in fact looks a little disinterested. The kick in the 3rd from full back that didn't make to McDonald on the full (and was then smashed over the boundary line) was inexcusable - for gods sake he was only 20 metres away.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

He finished in the top 2% for the 20m sprint for the 08' draft class.

If he has no pace look to blame the fitness staff, who have obviously changed his body shape because we picked up a quick one so you connect the dots.

I am happy to blame our fitness staff D7. The last 4 years have been totally wasted All i am saying is Trengove is not playing well at all, and if it continues he will be remembered as an average AFL player

[Arrow 1,257]

Nope, the exact opposite.

Clark is fantastic, and Trengove will be a star.

But I've been saying for 2 years now that Moloney has to go, and I think Sylvia should too.

I'd trade them for other mature players though.

Im glad we agree on the first two José. That said ill always respect your decision to leave that dirty Stamford Bridge

But on the serious note of Moloney and arguably Sylvia. There are two issues I see with the trade theory. i) look at the nature of the trading market. If a club is trying to sell a player the value is terrible. Mitch Clark went for a mid first round. When you look literally we got a 24 year old ready made player with a pick 12 whereas the previous year we got Lucas Cook with pick 11. Who knows what will happen there. In my opinion we underpaid for Clark. I think the best we could hope for re Moloney is a second round pick or a player swap. How many teams lack inside mids. These days- few. GWS? Maybe. We could get one of their young players but it furthers another issue. Melbournes record of getting rid of servants is beginning to look bad. Jmac is now looking somewhat of a mistake if not field wise certainly leadership wise. Bruce went and this year we WILL pull the plug on any or all of Green, Davey and Dunn all servants of the club. The club needs to create a culture where players see it as a desirable location and the media are making not only a case that we have no leadership but that are also unrelenting on loyal players. For someone who plays with his heart and also from all reports does set a good precident on the training track, IMO he is a player we could ill afford to move on.

[drdrake 3,163]

Just on the Morton handball - does any blame go to Moloney on that? I saw someone in another thread mention that it was a fair handball in front of Moloney, but Moloney was unable to accelerate enough to reach it due to having legs of lead late in the game. This thought did occur to me at the time, but I dismissed it because I thought I was probably giving Morton a little too much benefit of the doubt, but I'm interested to hear others thoughts on it.

I posted this on the Cale Morton Thread, Moloney had 2 options run harder for a good handball receive on but a big sheppard on to make space for Morton he did neither. I think Morton put pressure on Moloney but I don't think it was a skill error it was an attacking play that should have resulted in a deep inside 50m

We are to tall at the moment down back and we have clones in the midfield all are slow, they fumble and go to ground.

[Biffen 12,943]

I've got no qualms about getting rid of "Servants" .

The loyalty factor is pretty low in the AFL .

If we have a chance to open the prophesied "Window"

Then those in their mid twenties that aren't improving must go .

Moloney is not one of those .

Dunn is ,Batram is ,Joel Mac is ,Green clearly is .

We needs 30 "good" players aged 23-28 to have a hope .

[robbiefrom13 887]

I think a cigarette lighter to the testicles would do the trick nicely?

being funny? do you too feel disgusted that Jack Watts "doesn't care"?

Where does this sort of presumption and disrespect come from?

or have I missed some sarcasm, and you reacted to Buzzy's post the same way I did?

I hope these guys we support really do stay away from Demonland

[Biffen 12,943]

No...Wake up call IMO...On field our new captain is yet to excite me..he has not enough pace for the role he plays.

WYL

I am prepared to agree with you on most things but please dont denounce the saviour .

He will lead us through the valley and into the promised land .

As er, promised .

Amen.

[nutbean 8,838]

My two thoughts from yesterdays game.

1/ our disposal was poor HOWEVER the biggest issue was

2/ Uncontested footy - the first goal to the dogs was a perfect example of what we are yet to do and I hope the coaching staff use it as an example. I am not sure who flicked the ball out but as soon as the doggie player half looked like he was going to get the pill Ryan Griffin ran AWAY from the contest at a million miles an hour. The Dogs player did get the ball and Griffin was miles in the clear to accept an easy receive. We seem to lack a bit of confidence that we will get the ball and when we do we have no players breaking into space. It did happen for a period in the 3rd quarter and we looked a lot better. We need confidence that our team mates (when they are in a good position) will win the ball and then spread quickly.

[drdrake 3,163]

Just one other point, I think we are getting a little carried away with Mitch Clark. He has been OK but I don't think he has been fantastic and last night his fall was bad and lucky he is OK but he shouldn't have put himself in that situation. IMO he should have protected James Sellar instead of flying for the mark, I've seen a coule of times when Mitch should have put the ball to the top of the square but he hasn't and tried to kick the impossible. We all smash Jack Watts for his contested marking this year Jack has taken 7 contested Marks, Mitch has only taken 4.

Don't get me wrong Mitch is a good pick up but I don't think he has been as great as most are posting.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

I am happy to blame our fitness staff D7. The last 4 years have been totally wasted All i am saying is Trengove is not playing well at all, and if it continues he will be remembered as an average AFL player

You are prepared to write his legacy at the age of 20? Bit premature I would have thought.