Change in game beat Demon recruiters

[Guest Dr Who]

You must be Yze Magic.

No other poster can complete the dual tasks of disrupting Demonland while also being a vacuum of intelligent thought.

Have you looked in a mirror lately? Your a waffler, that hates a dose of his own medicine. You have zero knowledge of junior football, yet you have an "opinion" on everything.

Its OK - your time is up. Change or die.

Bye for now.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Dr Who

[dee-luded 2,959]

It's interesting. But we are already starting to see teams beating the press.

We saw what happened when we tried to chase after the prevailing trend - we went for big butts because of Brisbane in the early 2000s, but then the game started going uncontested and we were stuffed! Very few of those players are still around. The aim is to look at players and select those which are adaptable - those that will have a role to play in any side. These players need to be able to run, win the footy and use it well.

Watts will be a top class in any era. He can run, win the footy, great size and exquisite user of the ball. Will he end up as a power forward or as a midfielder? It doesn't really matter because he'll be a star in either role as he gets bigger and his endurance improves. Everyone is enamoured with Buddy as a big power forward, but really he can't mark the footy unless he's one on one - yet this is some sort of deal breaker for Watts?

Blease has done one preseason since he was about 15 or 16 and has improved his running ability enormously this year. But he still needs plenty of time to get this up to standard. His aerobic base is so low that he would be struggling to breathe at times last year after playing a few minutes as a loose man in defence for the Casey reserves! He's a player who needs time, because he will be the sort of player that good teams need to break the play open (in any game style). Speed athletes need time to improve their aerobic capacity to AFL standard, like we have seen with Dale Thomas, Colin Sylvia, Aaron Davey, Brett Deledio, Trent Cotchin. Chris Yarran etc. Blease's injuries haven't let him do that yet.

Bennell has heaps of talent, but doesn't win enough of the ball. At the same age Aaron Davey, another speed athlete, couldn't even get on an AFL list! He has shown glimpses of real quality, but just isn't doing it enough. That is something that often comes with maturity and confidence.

Teams are already starting to beat the press. What's the next phase? Hawthorn kick through it, while other teams are running through it. Teams are trying to move the ball really quickly, and that requires players that run quickly and kick with penetration. We have those players, but these are the players that take longer to develop.

It's very fashionable now to kick our list after some losses while they are adapting to a new defensive game. However these players are there, but will take some more time. They also need some quality around them to make their qualities more valuable.

It looks to me that the less rotations is making it harder to complete the perfect press. teams are struggling more to hold the press in tact. Causing some gaps to appear to run through.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes over this year.

[Rocknroll 1,004]

two very nasty broken legs help this arguement, but somehow he forgot to meantion this

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Depress you because you dont understand them? We play in the AFL but we struggle to reach the football department budgets ($$$$) of an AFL side.

I understand that our list is very unbalanced. $$$ are always a concern.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I understand that our list is very unbalanced. $$$ are always a concern.

WYL, wake up & stop believing those who support & encourage your pessimism.

You become your own Prophet of doom, then go hard spreading that message like a religious fundamentalist.

We are on our way. Let us get organised so you can then see the thing starting to take shape. Your panicking mate.

[Face Your Demons 175]

Load of smell cow dune. Every football writer in the Country picked Watts as number one in that year. Just need something to fill their papers.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I distinctly recall Bailey or BP espousing the view that the game was due to evolve into a "rolling scrum".

This idea of a sh%tfight in an enclosed area around the football, with great deals of space once that immediate congestion has been breached, has yet to come to fruition.

Instead we just find moderate congestion in 2/3 of the field.

Not sure BP & Bailey's vision will ever eventuate.

[praha 11,240]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/teams/jack-of-all-trades-master-of-one/story-e6frf9mf-1111118040916

"We didn't waste him, but if you played him at centre half-forward or full-forward, he just ruined the game.

"So we thought we'd put him on a wing and give 17 other kids the chance to be part of the game.

"After the first half on the wing, he was easily best on ground, easily."

[rpfc 28,477]

Dr, this is how ridiculous you seem to Demonland.

[warren dean 193]

http://www.heraldsun...f-1111118040916

"We didn't waste him, but if you played him at centre half-forward or full-forward, he just ruined the game.

"So we thought we'd put him on a wing and give 17 other kids the chance to be part of the game.

"After the first half on the wing, he was easily best on ground, easily."

Easy to see why this bloke went number 1.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

I distinctly recall Bailey or BP espousing the view that the game was due to evolve into a "rolling scrum".

Prendergast said, during the 2009 draft night, that 'pack size' was important. He's right and it still is. It's about being able to move the ball forward from stoppages, and stoppages are always important because you can either win territorially or win with possession which can be good for any plan.

Also, the press means that there is plenty of space over the back and it's a matter of getting the ball past the press quickly. That means either winning an outnumbered contest inside the press or forcing a stoppage (ie, winning territorially) or moving it through the press uncontested with run or ball movement (ie, winning with possession). The first one requires big bodied inside midfielders, and the second one requires skillful and pacy runners.

To be able to adapt to the game we need a balance of players.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

WYL, wake up & stop believing those who support & encourage your pessimism.

You become your own Prophet of doom, then go hard spreading that message like a religious fundamentalist.

We are on our way. Let us get organised so you can then see the thing starting to take shape. Your panicking mate.

I am not panicking mate. I am beyond that. I am merely watching this club get it wrong in so many ways. I am a paid up member. Don't worry. I will keep observing.

We may be on our way Deeluded yes. But not the direction we wanted. But keep smiling.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Prendergast said, during the 2009 draft night, that 'pack size' was important. He's right and it still is. It's about being able to move the ball forward from stoppages, and stoppages are always important because you can either win territorially or win with possession which can be good for any plan.

Also, the press means that there is plenty of space over the back and it's a matter of getting the ball past the press quickly. That means either winning an outnumbered contest inside the press or forcing a stoppage (ie, winning territorially) or moving it through the press uncontested with run or ball movement (ie, winning with possession). The first one requires big bodied inside midfielders, and the second one requires skillful and pacy runners.

To be able to adapt to the game we need a balance of players.

I subscribe to this theory, but we are lacking enough of the big bodies.

What we really need is for those skillful and pacy runners to have big bodies.

I believe that takes time... time the general football public don't want to give them.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

It's amazing so many 'respected' and 'seasoned' assistant coaches from other clubs are infatuated with us...

And why is Niall comparing us to WCE?

Because of the Watts and NikNat draft?

If you gave us Embley, Cox, Kerr, Glass, Lynch, Priddis, and LeCras as senior players - we would be far better than we are now.

Their resurgence has very little to do with NikNat and Shuey...

So I don't see it as relevant at all.

Another crap addition to The Troubling Case of the Recruitment of Jack Watts © dossier...

Agree.

Many people seem to forget the importance of a strong 25 - 30 yo group of experienced players.

We have had, and still have the worst group within the AFL.

Whilst I still believe that BP wasn't the best recruiter going around, if Watts and an uninjured Blease and Strauss were running around for West Coast this year, I get the feeling people would be questioning why

we didn't pick those three...

[pitchfork 181]

I'll still contend that this has far more to do with player development than drafting.

I don't quite get the Blease point...I'd suggest that if Daisy Thomas was an MFC player he'd be half the gun he is at this point. As I'd suggest that Blease in a couple of other uniforms would be playing regular footy.

There may have been some poor drafting, but it's no wonder that a bunch of teams have managed to stay relevant in AFL footy for the past 20 years...regardless of the level playing field provided by the draft

[drdrake 3,178]

I'll still contend that this has far more to do with player development than drafting.

I don't quite get the Blease point...I'd suggest that if Daisy Thomas was an MFC player he'd be half the gun he is at this point. As I'd suggest that Blease in a couple of other uniforms would be playing regular footy.

There may have been some poor drafting, but it's no wonder that a bunch of teams have managed to stay relevant in AFL footy for the past 20 years...regardless of the level playing field provided by the draft

I agree with this, we looking at our top 25 picks from the since 2007 we just haven't seen them reach their potential that they showed as juniors. The big issue over the past 3 years is keeping them fit, Morton, Grimes, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Tapscott and Cook have all had extended periods of injury. Tapscott, Grimes, Strauss and Gysberts in particluar just can't stay fit and it seems for the last 3 pre-season Morton gets injured in Feb/March. All we have heard for the past 5 years is getting games into players giving them the experience, we just haven't been able to keep them fit.

It would be interesting to know how many games these guys have played all in the same team over the past 2 years Morton, Grimes, Watts, Strauss, Blease, Trengove, Gysbert and Tapscott, I reckon the answer will be none, not 1 game where our top picks have all played in the same team, this is the issue these guys have been on our list 3-5 years.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I think we actually have the framework and the resources now to properly develop our players, but the thing is that it will take time.

We can't expect it to be instant.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I agree with this, we looking at our top 25 picks from the since 2007 we just haven't seen them reach their potential that they showed as juniors. The big issue over the past 3 years is keeping them fit, Morton, Grimes, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Tapscott and Cook have all had extended periods of injury. Tapscott, Grimes, Strauss and Gysberts in particluar just can't stay fit and it seems for the last 3 pre-season Morton gets injured in Feb/March. All we have heard for the past 5 years is getting games into players giving them the experience, we just haven't been able to keep them fit.

It would be interesting to know how many games these guys have played all in the same team over the past 2 years Morton, Grimes, Watts, Strauss, Blease, Trengove, Gysbert and Tapscott, I reckon the answer will be none, not 1 game where our top picks have all played in the same team, this is the issue these guys have been on our list 3-5 years.

Said the same thing a couple of weeks ago Dr, and I also added Jones and Frawley in there too.

When all these first round draft picks are aged between 23-26, we might have something special, espeically given we will continue to draft over the coming years. It's about making sure that this core group of players actually stay together, and most importantly, develop together and realise it's not just "going to happen".

I'm hopeful that the leadership of Grimes and Trengove, and with Neeld and Craig at the helm, ensure that these players work their arse off for their entire careers.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I am not panicking mate. I am beyond that. I am merely watching this club get it wrong in so many ways. I am a paid up member. Don't worry. I will keep observing.

We may be on our way Deeluded yes. But not the direction we wanted. But keep smiling.

Sorry WYL, your wrong, you just don't know what we have until it's obvious to you.

You know, Malthouse didn't say he'd like to coach our list for no reason. But maybe we have to stop telling the players they're talented, so they'll commit & work harder.

Your words sound like panic to me.

IMO we have to stop YoYo-ing as supporters from Overly Optimistic,, only to crash like Henny Penny.

It's damaging to our own interests.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Sorry WYL, your wrong, you just don't know what we have until it's obvious to you.

You know, Malthouse didn't say he'd like to coach our list for no reason. But maybe we have to stop telling the players they're talented, so they'll commit & work harder.

Your words sound like panic to me.

IMO we have to stop YoYo-ing as supporters from Overly Optimistic,, only to crash like Henny Penny.

It's damaging to our own interests.

I am not wrong DL. i have just watched this club lurch from one problem to the next in 4 decades. Did you attend VFL Park in '79 when the Roys knifed us?

Jimmy got it right, BUT $$$$ should have been pumped into the Footy Department at the end of 2009 once the debt was cleared. The club wasted 2 very important years leaning on the side of caution, and now we must pay for that(again).

Supporters have every right to be angry right now. What we have witnessed so far in 2012 is not AFL standard. 5 years after ND was moved on.

[furious d 464]

Jones is just entering his prime now, I'll judge our recruiting under BP when Trengove is the same age.

All this constant talk about our drafting is just a distraction from our real problem. What has happened to our senior players? 26 rounds ago Jamar was AA, Green had made the squad and Davey had just had his best 2 seasons in red and blue.

Jamar needs to find the hunger he had when the ball hits the deck. I remember him having 9 or 10 clearances more than once during his AA year, these days he wins more taps but doesn't get involved afterwards. Green and Davey both look spent, neither look AFL standard any more. This makes it even harder for our kids. We are down to Moloney(inj), Rivers, Sylvia(inj) and an out of form Jamar as senior players. I don't include Macdonald because he's borderline 22.

Unless we can get more out of this lot, or have 2 or 3 of Martin, Jones, Bate, Dunn, Bartram, Clark, Frawley and Garland become stars very quickly, we're stuck being ordinary for a little while yet. These are the guys we have coming into their prime now. When they are the senior players and Watts, Trengrove et al are coming into their prime this list will be looking very good, unless we sacrifice it for immediate results.

[Hannibal 5,814]

The one aspect in the article in which I completely agree is that we didn't recruit Watts to be playing on a wing in his 4th year. And I can't understand how this is so well received by some Melbourne supporters. Right now he's not capable of playing the role in the forward line that Neeld envisaged. I accept it, but it's very disappointing. He was trained all summer to play the role of a tall marking forward, but the plan was shelved prior to round 1, because it's presently beyond him. He won't impact games in that role, well, not in a Mark Neeld game-plan - yet.

I don't agree with Axis' assertions that he'll be an elite mid. I don't see that at all, as he's too outside and hasn't spent the years (and years) honing the prerequisite skills to succeed in the midfield. He'll be serviceable, as he's too talented not to be, but I can't see him winning the contested footy that's required to be dominant. To be an elite mid in the current game you at least have to have strong 'predator' skills, even if you're not a 'first dibs' bottom of the pack type. Swan isn't first dibs, but expertly plays the predator role and uses his fantastic reading of the play to create opportunities from stoppages. Watts would have to change his game enormously to ever dominate from the midfield.

I still reckon he can build his body to be a very competitive marking option in the forward-line where his smarts and ground level ability can make him one of the most dangerous players in the competition, where he can impact the scoreboard. That's where he'll be "highest and best use".

[Tony Tea 2,809]

All this constant talk about our drafting is just a distraction from our real problem. What has happened to our senior players? 26 rounds ago Jamar was AA, Green had made the squad and Davey had just had his best 2 seasons in red and blue.

Jamar needs to find the hunger he had when the ball hits the deck. I remember him having 9 or 10 clearances more than once during his AA year, these days he wins more taps but doesn't get involved afterwards.

If GWS are serious about Jamar and offer over the odds, we should take it.

[rpfc 28,477]

If GWS are serious about Jamar and offer over the odds, we should take it.

He is an unrestricted free agent.

They won't offer anything and all we will get is probably a second round pick or worse.

[Guest José Mourinho]

He is an unrestricted free agent.

They won't offer anything and all we will get is probably a second round pick or worse.

I'd expect more than that.