Barry Prendergast gone

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Didnt want to seem blunt if i did, your point regarding Hawkins ability is correct, much like us with Watts really, in that when we recruited Cook we didnt know what Watts would become in 2011, and hopefully 2012....ect and also that we could recruit Clark ect.

Knowing what we know, picking Darling may have been smart, but at the time i firmly believe Cook was the right choice, also Howe is more than capable at playing a darling style role also, if not better at this point imo.

You're not suggesting that we recruited Cook just in case Watts didn't measure up?

Tell me I've misread that.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Not quite, they got him with their 2nd go. Even they passed him up for Gaff, not a bad player either by the way.

I would trade Cook, Darling and many others to have Gaff on our list. He will be a gun (and grew up supporting the Dees).

If WCE had their second round pick at, say, 11 - rather than 26 - I reckon they would still have picked Darling. An interesting issue in some respects is whether Gaff will be more valuable than Darling. I reckon he will be.

Accordingly, I don't think one can credibly say that WCE 'fluked it' by landing Darling with their second round draft pick, in circumstances where they used their first round draft pick on a kid who will most likely become an elite player in the competition.

[rjay 24,050]

I would trade Cook, Darling and many others to have Gaff on our list. He will be a gun (and grew up supporting the Dees).

If WCE had their second round pick at, say, 11 - rather than 26 - I reckon they would still have picked Darling. An interesting issue in some respects is whether Gaff will be more valuable than Darling. I reckon he will be.

Accordingly, I don't think one can credibly say that WCE 'fluked it' by landing Darling with their second round draft pick, in circumstances where they used their first round draft pick on a kid who will most likely become an elite player in the competition.

Who's saying they "fluked it", the fact is they picked him up with a 2nd round pick and picking up Gaff, who I agree looks to be a ripper goes along with the "best available" policy that all clubs wheel out at draft time, same goes for Geelong with Smedts and every other club.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just that every club passed up on Darling in the first round.

[Theo 263]

You're not suggesting that we recruited Cook just in case Watts didn't measure up?

Tell me I've misread that.

No, I think Neeld recruited Jai Sheahan just in case Cook doesn't measure up.

[daisycutter 28,692]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just that every club passed up on Darling in the first round.

That's a very misleading, loaded statement and you are not the only one to have made it

It would only be true if Darling was rated as the number 1 draft prospect which he clearly wasn't.

[rjay 24,050]

That's a very misleading, loaded statement and you are not the only one to have made it

It would only be true if Darling was rated as the number 1 draft prospect which he clearly wasn't.

Where is it misleading? it is a fact, he was picked up in the 2nd round, all clubs passed him up in the first round.

[jnrmac 19,327]

And that would stop you from recruiting said player would it?? I am in Old Dee's corner with this one. Too many choirboys have been recruited to the MFC throughout the decades. When the chance arrives Bailey & BP baulk and take a toddler. Trouble is both Bailey & BP have left the building and we are left with another 5 year plan. We need players ready now. It has been 5 years since this rebuild started, & 48 years since Crompton's lucky goal

Yeah, like Martin Pike (4 times premiership player - I hate reading that). What would you do if players turn up to training having been drinking?

And the biggest criticism of ND is that he played players who did not deserve a game because of past form and reputation. You can't have it both ways. You either have a team structure and discipline (Coll, Geel) or you have undisciplined rabble. Players with chequered pasts are a timebomb.

[jnrmac 19,327]

I would trade Cook, Darling and many others to have Gaff on our list. He will be a gun (and grew up supporting the Dees).

If WCE had their second round pick at, say, 11 - rather than 26 - I reckon they would still have picked Darling. An interesting issue in some respects is whether Gaff will be more valuable than Darling. I reckon he will be.

Accordingly, I don't think one can credibly say that WCE 'fluked it' by landing Darling with their second round draft pick, in circumstances where they used their first round draft pick on a kid who will most likely become an elite player in the competition.

I don't reckon you can credibly say that either!

[jnrmac 19,327]

That's a very misleading, loaded statement and you are not the only one to have made it

It would only be true if Darling was rated as the number 1 draft prospect which he clearly wasn't.

How is that misleading? I would have thought it fact since Darling went at Pick 26.

[daisycutter 28,692]

Where is it misleading? it is a fact, he was picked up in the 2nd round, all clubs passed him up in the first round.

if you can't see why it is misleading then i can't help you

[Jordie_tackles 354]

You're not suggesting that we recruited Cook just in case Watts didn't measure up?

Tell me I've misread that.

Not at all, but Watts was our only up and coming quality KPP at this stage, you need more than one KPP obviously. we were taking the long outlook so took the young player Cook also to develop. I think Bailey was alwasy content with where Watts was at. although, when you bank picks it can bite you RF. do you think Richmond thought that Tabling Fiora and others were going to fail after 2 years? i doubt it, but for high picks they were worse than Morton for example

[old55 21,656]

As has been stated ad-nauseum, we were one of very few clubs clearly after a marking forward early in that draft. Geelong weren't one of them (Smedts).

That's quite wrong. Geelong needed a KPF because of the Mooney/Pods/Hawkins issues I explained (IMO they still do), Gold Coast needed KPFs, Carlton needed a KPF - all needed KPFs and particularly needed ready-to-go KPFs at least as much if not more than us. And 3 very experienced recruiters with excellent records passed on Darling in multiple opportunities to take him. It's impossible to say whether any of them would have taken Cook - Gold Coast took Day and Lynch and I suspect if they hadn't we would have taken one of them ahead of Cook and Darling. Carlton and Geelong couldn't take Cook because he was gone, but they didn't take Darling who wasn't.

[rjay 24,050]

That's quite wrong. Geelong needed a KPF because of the Mooney/Pods/Hawkins issues I explained (IMO they still do), Gold Coast needed KPFs, Carlton needed a KPF - all needed KPFs and particularly needed ready-to-go KPFs at least as much if not more than us. And 3 very experienced recruiters with excellent records passed on Darling in multiple opportunities to take him. It's impossible to say whether any of them would have taken Cook - Gold Coast took Day and Lynch and I suspect if they hadn't we would have taken one of them ahead of Cook and Darling. Carlton and Geelong couldn't take Cook because he was gone, but they didn't take Darling who wasn't.

All clubs say they draft the best available player and don't draft to fill a position. Whether that's right in practice who knows, your guess is as good as mine.

[monoccular 16,415]

Didnt want to seem blunt if i did, your point regarding Hawkins ability is correct, much like us with Watts really, in that when we recruited Cook we didnt know what Watts would become in 2011, and hopefully 2012....ect and also that we could recruit Clark ect.

....but I guess that if Clark does his job, and JW has a breakout season and can become a match breaker, and if Cook doesn't progress then he will be on shaky ground.

On the other hand if the above positives don't work out and Cook does progress then it will have been a good call.

Hard to predict tomorrow let alone 2-3 years. Always a best guess.

Time will tell.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

....but I guess that if Clark does his job, and JW has a breakout season and can become a match breaker, and if Cook doesn't progress then he will be on shaky ground.

On the other hand if the above positives don't work out and Cook does progress then it will have been a good call.

Hard to predict tomorrow let alone 2-3 years. Always a best guess.

Time will tell.

If Clark does his job JW has a breakout season Tommy Mc plays well in the forward line then who knows where or if Cook will get a game. Also with Howe playing tall it makes the forward line a hard place to break in to.

My original query was about the club selecting 3 tall skinny kids out of our last 4 first round selections, particularly when we needed midfielders and we lacked any physical size.

[old55 21,656]

My original query was about the club selecting 3 tall skinny kids out of our last 4 first round selections, particularly when we needed midfielders and we lacked any physical size.

Immediately following the 2010 draft the vast majority of posters were lauding the fact that we went for 4 talls after BP drafted mainly mids with our early picks prior to that. Now Clark has arrived and Scully has gone and the tune has changed.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Immediately following the 2010 draft the vast majority of posters were lauding the fact that we went for 4 talls after BP drafted mainly mids with our early picks prior to that. Now Clark has arrived and Scully has gone and the tune has changed.

I guess I wasn't one of them.

The Club drafted Morton, Watts, Scully and Cook as our first round selections over a 4 year period and that surprised me.

I'm more than happy with Watts, Morton has a bit to go and is still built like a stick, Cook is also built like a stick and I would have thought that after the Morton experience they would have been a bit gun shy about picking another tall skinny.

The first round selection is very important as there is usually more chance of getting an A grade player early on and I just think we may have wasted one of ours.

[Lutz 76]

I guess I wasn't one of them.

The Club drafted Morton, Watts, Scully and Cook as our first round selections over a 4 year period and that surprised me.

I'm more than happy with Watts, Morton has a bit to go and is still built like a stick, Cook is also built like a stick and I would have thought that after the Morton experience they would have been a bit gun shy about picking another tall skinny.

The first round selection is very important as there is usually more chance of getting an A grade player early on and I just think we may have wasted one of ours.

If you're going to talk "first round selections", you can't just choose to ignore that Grimes, Gysberts and Trengove were also "first round selections".

No, they weren't the first chosen, but surely those selections were also taken into account when making the first round selections the following year.

You're trying to be selective with your data to strengthen your argument, but it only makes it weaker.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

If you're going to talk "first round selections", you can't just choose to ignore that Grimes, Gysberts and Trengove were also "first round selections".

No, they weren't the first chosen, but surely those selections were also taken into account when making the first round selections the following year.

You're trying to be selective with your data to strengthen your argument, but it only makes it weaker.

You miss the point, what I have posted are the facts if you think that undermines my position then that's your prerogative.

If you want to bring other selections in to it go right ahead, my issue is and always has been the first selection.

We have recruited plenty of midfielders with our Rookie picks; perhaps we should bring them in to it as well?

[Demonsterative 2,103]

I worry about our recent early selections too but i think some on this site are being some what alarmist with the recruitment of Cook. Every AFL list needs a good balance of veterans, players who have experince, youth and young developing project players.

When i look at out recent top draft selections i question do we have enough quality to bring the club to elite status, but i will wait until i get too worried. Or until a massive loss ;-)

Trengove is the only player that gives me confidence in his ability to become elite. Watts i hope can become a KPF we desperately need. The jury is still out if he will become an elite CHF. Gysberts shows alot of promise too but is no certainty. Morton showed promise but has gone backwards. Grimes cant get on the park and when he does, he cant stay on the park for sustained periods. He is another maybe at this stage. Cook is the least to worry about as he needs time and its only fair to give such time. Gys is a skinny mid and needs time to build a body too. All have massive upside, but will they reach their potential

Overall to many ifs at this stage with our top recent recruits, small or tall players. Having said this i have more confidence in the FD in developing our players and still live in massive hope and anticipation.

[Lutz 76]

^^^ Going off on a tangent here, but that seems to be demonland's MO sometimes.... What's to stop Watts becoming an elite very tall HFF?

[Demonsterative 2,103]

Is there such a thing? Elite players tend to play more pivital roles. Watts will never be a med forward. By nature of his body size

[bing181 8,228]

If you want to bring other selections in to it go right ahead, my issue is and always has been the first selection.

Where, as been pointed out, there were plenty of mids.

You've chosen to take onboard the "facts" that support your argument, while ignoring the "facts" that don't.

[Lutz 76]

Is there such a thing? Elite players tend to play more pivital roles. Watts will never be a med forward. By nature of his body size

You ever seen Steve Johnson play?

And a player's size doesn't necessarily determine the position or style they play.

I any case, what I mean is, what's to stop him playing whatever style or height he likes, but alongside a CHF, instead of alongside a HFF?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Lutz

[Jordie_tackles 354]

You miss the point, what I have posted are the facts if you think that undermines my position then that's your prerogative.

If you want to bring other selections in to it go right ahead, my issue is and always has been the first selection.

We have recruited plenty of midfielders with our Rookie picks; perhaps we should bring them in to it as well?

I think you are missing that first round isnt a clubs first selection, it is any selection in the first 16 now 18 picks in any draft. edit 1 per team *

Hence bring, Gysberts, Grimes and Trengove into calculations, as well as Blease PP between first and second round, Strauss start of second round by 1 pick, as was Tapscott all capable of playing mids and all top 20 picks.

3 mids being "first round" and 6 in total being top 20 picks.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Jordie_tackles