DAWES CLOSED

[Guest The Exorcist]

Overvalued.

He's a more physically imposing version of Brad Miller.That's better than Brad Miller but that's not saying whole lot.

His stock price dropped 15% on that performance.

[Demon3 2,541]

With the big man from the Pies now re-signed with the Pies, who is a big power fwd that every person in the world says we need?

[Schema 0]

So happy that Dawes has re-signed, it means we won't be paying the most over rated player in the comp a fortune to kick 40 goals a year..... Who do we target? Well stuffed if I know, most of the half decent big bodied forwards are locked away

[Goodvibes 3,596]

So happy that Dawes has re-signed, it means we won't be paying the most over rated player in the comp a fortune to kick 40 goals a year..... Who do we target? Well stuffed if I know, most of the half decent big bodied forwards are locked away

Which might explain why Dawes is rated so highly. He would have filled a structural need. I'm disappointed we couldn't get him.

[Craig Drinker 179]

When one Dawes closes another Daw opens. Why don't we have a go for Majak Daw?

Not currently playing seniors ,may come cheaply and could turn out handy?

[Arrow 1,257]

When one Dawes closes another Daw opens. Why don't we have a go for Majak Daw?

Not currently playing seniors ,may come cheaply and could turn out handy?

Project player for mine. Prefer Bate in short term than Daw

[hardtack 10,537]

Project player for mine. Prefer Bate in short term than Daw

I get the feeling FBPO just wanted to get that pun in :-)

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Why don't we go after Tippett? Could package pick 12 in with Warnock. Would then allow us to go for mids in the bumper draft next year.

[Harcourt 146]

I don't think pick 12 and Warnock would get that deal done RD. No hope in hell.

[Ouch! 2,262]

Jordan Lisle from the Hawks would be my preference. Behind Roughead and Franklin as a power forward.... and they want Gunston as a more mobile 3rd tall option.... and they have Hale as well.

[hardtack 10,537]

Jordan Lisle from the Hawks would be my preference. Behind Roughead and Franklin as a power forward.... and they want Gunston as a more mobile 3rd tall option.... and they have Hale as well.

Based on what? Pick 50 in the 2008 draft, played just 5 games at AFL level with a return of one solitary goal against the Suns (yes, I know he had 30 from 20 VFL games, but against what?). He's big, yes... but I wouldn't expect the club would want to give too much for him.

[Demon3 2,541]

Setanta is on his way, who will be his helpers?

[Chook 15,013]

Why not fix what's actually wrong with the team and pick up an honest to goodness proper midfielder?

Our inside 50 count is in the bottom couple in the competition, but our "scores to inside 50s" ratio is high. For those of you who don't know what this means, I'll tell you: Our forwardline is fine. It's our midfield that sucks.

[Dr. Mubutu 851]

Why not fix what's actually wrong with the team and pick up an honest to goodness proper midfielder?

Our inside 50 count is in the bottom couple in the competition, but our "scores to inside 50s" ratio is high. For those of you who don't know what this means, I'll tell you: Our forwardline is fine. It's our midfield that sucks.

I wouldn't worry about banging your head against that particular wall.

[old55 23,561]

Why not fix what's actually wrong with the team and pick up an honest to goodness proper midfielder?

Our inside 50 count is in the bottom couple in the competition, but our "scores to inside 50s" ratio is high. For those of you who don't know what this means, I'll tell you: Our forwardline is fine. It's our midfield that sucks.

Not necessarily, it might mean we look up and can't go inside 50 because there's no long target. Our midfield does require improvement but we also need more versatility in our forward line, it's too easy to defend against if you never go long. It's the threat more than anything else. We need a tall with a decent engine who can run up and down the lines all day - sounds like Cook in a couple of years to me, but we need someone in the meantime so we can play that style.

[Ouch! 2,262]

Based on what? Pick 50 in the 2008 draft, played just 5 games at AFL level with a return of one solitary goal against the Suns (yes, I know he had 30 from 20 VFL games, but against what?). He's big, yes... but I wouldn't expect the club would want to give too much for him.

Fair question.... I don't know a massive amount about him other than the things that you mentioned above, but have several mates who are Hawks supporters who do rate him, and feel that he will make a solid power forward given the opportunity, At this point however he is behind Roughhead & Franklin... and then a ruckman like Hale resting up there.

In one of his games (might have been his first one) he had 3-4 solid marks on the lead in the 'V' and looked very promising.... and then proceeded to muff the shots at goal. Although apparently he is a pretty reliable kick. The vibe I got was that if he had managed to kick these goals then people would be talking a bit more about him....

Again, one of the reasons I think he could be worth a punt is for the exact reason that you are saying.... because I don't think he would be super expensive to obtain, and I am not impressed with other options that people are talking about in regards to power forward options e.g Jesse White etc...

[Ouch! 2,262]

Our forwardline is fine. It's our midfield that sucks.

True we need midfielders as well, but we don't have the Big forward option up there that can assist in bringing the ball to ground to bring in small forwards. With Neitz and even to a lesser degree Ben Holland, they made a contest and allowed the smalls to swoop. It might be a case that we don't have that big option YET. Not sure if Watts will be that big power option or whether he will be a more mobile option.... don't know if Lucas Cook can become that type of player either.

[The Chazz 4,077]

True we need midfielders as well, but we don't have the Big forward option up there that can assist in bringing the ball to ground to bring in small forwards. With Neitz and even to a lesser degree Ben Holland, they made a contest and allowed the smalls to swoop. It might be a case that we don't have that big option YET. Not sure if Watts will be that big power option or whether he will be a more mobile option.... don't know if Lucas Cook can become that type of player either.

Stef Martin/Mark Jamar/Max Gawn? I'm hearing hte cries now - "we can't play all 3". Tell me how many rucks/pinch hitters did Collingwood have in their premiership 2 years ago, and Geelong this year?

To say we need a power forward is absolute rubbish. We just need to look at how the best teams operate with the amount of big guys they have, and we'll be fine.

Fair question.... I don't know a massive amount about him other than the things that you mentioned above, but have several mates who are Hawks supporters who do rate him, and feel that he will make a solid power forward given the opportunity, At this point however he is behind Roughhead & Franklin... and then a ruckman like Hale resting up there.

In one of his games (might have been his first one) he had 3-4 solid marks on the lead in the 'V' and looked very promising.... and then proceeded to muff the shots at goal. Although apparently he is a pretty reliable kick. The vibe I got was that if he had managed to kick these goals then people would be talking a bit more about him....

Again, one of the reasons I think he could be worth a punt is for the exact reason that you are saying.... because I don't think he would be super expensive to obtain, and I am not impressed with other options that people are talking about in regards to power forward options e.g Jesse White etc...

Lisle may be behind Franklin, then Roughy, then Hale, but how many games did Roughy miss this year due to his injury, and how many did Lisle end up playing? He had ample opportunity to make the senior side, therefore, I would offer a 3rd rounder only, and if not, our 2nd rounder if they included their 2nd rounder too. Nothing more.

[Chook 15,013]

Not necessarily, it might mean we look up and can't go inside 50 because there's no long target. Our midfield does require improvement but we also need more versatility in our forward line, it's too easy to defend against if you never go long. It's the threat more than anything else. We need a tall with a decent engine who can run up and down the lines all day - sounds like Cook in a couple of years to me, but we need someone in the meantime so we can play that style.

That's a pretty good point, and one which I didn't really think of. Still, you would think that the better midfielders would have the ability to hit a player on the lead no matter how tall or small he is.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Chook

[Ouch! 2,262]

Stef Martin/Mark Jamar/Max Gawn? I'm hearing hte cries now - "we can't play all 3". Tell me how many rucks/pinch hitters did Collingwood have in their premiership 2 years ago, and Geelong this year?

To say we need a power forward is absolute rubbish. We just need to look at how the best teams operate with the amount of big guys they have, and we'll be fine.

So how exactly is it rubbish? Lets use the examples you provided

Collingwood have 2 big bodied fowards in Dawes and Cloke, they also rest a ruckman in Brown and Jolly up forward as well. (In their Premiership year)

Geelong have 2 big bodied forwards in JPod and Hawkins, they also rest a ruckman in West and Ottens up forward. (This year)

..... we have Watts who needs a year or two more to get the body size right and who's the other one? We rest Martin or Jamar up forward. The rest of the forward line is Petterd, Howe, Jurrah, Green etc.... they are medium sized forwards, we don't have much in the way of smalls up there, possibly cos they don't get fed too many crumbs.

You mention Gawn.... Gawn Jamar and Martin are ruckmen.... so we still don't have the 2nd big forward.... let alone the 1st big forward. I think Jamar could play as a forward for us. I am not convinced yet with Martin as a forward, yes he had a good year, but it was acclaim for taking over in the ruck, not as a forward.

In regards to the comment with how many games did he play, yeah it's a fair point that he didn't make the side, but where exactly did I state what we should pay for Lisle? I just said I thought he could be worth taking a punt on, and yes... he is not a player you would pay over market value for, maybe 2nd / 3rd rounder and a player like Bate or Maric if they attracted some interest...

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Fair question.... I don't know a massive amount about him other than the things that you mentioned above, but have several mates who are Hawks supporters who do rate him, and feel that he will make a solid power forward given the opportunity, At this point however he is behind Roughhead & Franklin... and then a ruckman like Hale resting up there.

In one of his games (might have been his first one) he had 3-4 solid marks on the lead in the 'V' and looked very promising.... and then proceeded to muff the shots at goal. Although apparently he is a pretty reliable kick. The vibe I got was that if he had managed to kick these goals then people would be talking a bit more about him....

Again, one of the reasons I think he could be worth a punt is for the exact reason that you are saying.... because I don't think he would be super expensive to obtain, and I am not impressed with other options that people are talking about in regards to power forward options e.g Jesse White etc...

Sort of like best of a bad lot?

[Ouch! 2,262]

Maybe, but again he is still young ... 2008 Draft, Hawks supporters rate him, (it's not like the hawks are shopping him around) and who do we have for this role? I am not convinced Martin can play the role, Cook will take a couple of years to get there, Newton?

The only option I could see from within our own list would be putting Jamar up front as a forward, and playing Gawn/Martin/Spencer as rucks....

Who else is out there? No one wants to take the punt on Fev, Dawes has re-signed, and jesse White does nothing to excite me.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Setanta is on his way, who will be his helpers?

Oh, Really? Then we need quality Reign dear.

[The Chazz 4,077]

So how exactly is it rubbish? Lets use the examples you provided

Collingwood have 2 big bodied fowards in Dawes and Cloke, they also rest a ruckman in Brown and Jolly up forward as well. (In their Premiership year)

Geelong have 2 big bodied forwards in JPod and Hawkins, they also rest a ruckman in West and Ottens up forward. (This year)

..... we have Watts who needs a year or two more to get the body size right and who's the other one? We rest Martin or Jamar up forward. The rest of the forward line is Petterd, Howe, Jurrah, Green etc.... they are medium sized forwards, we don't have much in the way of smalls up there, possibly cos they don't get fed too many crumbs.

You mention Gawn.... Gawn Jamar and Martin are ruckmen.... so we still don't have the 2nd big forward.... let alone the 1st big forward. I think Jamar could play as a forward for us. I am not convinced yet with Martin as a forward, yes he had a good year, but it was acclaim for taking over in the ruck, not as a forward.

In regards to the comment with how many games did he play, yeah it's a fair point that he didn't make the side, but where exactly did I state what we should pay for Lisle? I just said I thought he could be worth taking a punt on, and yes... he is not a player you would pay over market value for, maybe 2nd / 3rd rounder and a player like Bate or Maric if they attracted some interest...

Where our disagreement is hard is that you can't see Martin being a KPF, and I can. While you state that he is a ruckman, and yes, he played his best footy there this year, that was becuase he was allowed continuity in one role when Jamar went down. When he was rested up forward, he did excatly what I'm crying out for our Full Forward to do - he made contests and brought the ball to the ground. I'd love to see him play all season a Full Forward who can go in to the ruck if required. Have a KPI on him where he has to kick 20-30 goals for the year, and be directly involved in another 20 goals from our crumbers roving off his packs.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Martin would certainly fulfil that role, and mean we have he and Watts as our KPFs, with Jamar & Gawn rotating through their. It would stretch a lot of teams, especially considering sides are starting to put a bit more time in to Watts - there were a number of games this year where he had the oppositions best or 2nd best defender.

Imagine Jurrah with the oppositions 4th defender. That's what he'd get if we had Watts, Martin and resting Jamar/Gawn in our forward line.

Bloody hell we need to get Aussie right don't we?!

[Ouch! 2,262]

Where our disagreement is hard is that you can't see Martin being a KPF, and I can. While you state that he is a ruckman, and yes, he played his best footy there this year, that was becuase he was allowed continuity in one role when Jamar went down. When he was rested up forward, he did excatly what I'm crying out for our Full Forward to do - he made contests and brought the ball to the ground. I'd love to see him play all season a Full Forward who can go in to the ruck if required. Have a KPI on him where he has to kick 20-30 goals for the year, and be directly involved in another 20 goals from our crumbers roving off his packs. I have no doubt whatsoever that Martin would certainly fulfil that role, and mean we have he and Watts as our KPFs, with Jamar & Gawn rotating through their. It would stretch a lot of teams, especially considering sides are starting to put a bit more time in to Watts - there were a number of games this year where he had the oppositions best or 2nd best defender. Imagine Jurrah with the oppositions 4th defender. That's what he'd get if we had Watts, Martin and resting Jamar/Gawn in our forward line. Bloody hell we need to get Aussie right don't we?!

Fair point, and well reasoned.

Martin looked like he was establishing himself as a backman early on, then has had a stint in the ruck, I probably will concede that he could play a role to bring the ball to ground, but just doesn't 'feel' like a natural forward, and the type of player that could punish opposition on the scoreboard. Maybe this is something Leigh Brown can bring out of him given he probably played a similar role in his playing career.

Agree totally with the comment about Aussie, I really hope he can hold his spot on the senior list and get his mind and body right for a solid season of AFL. We do have some great dimensions to our forward line with Petterd, Howe, Jurrah and Watts. Aussie and a big forward body! (although I dont' know where Green fits into the forward line there...)

... still think Lisle could offer something though