WINNERS ARE GRINNERS

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Here it comes......how on earth can we need an influx of talent? we've had all the front running in selection for years.

What we need is a game plan and some guys willing to stick with it.... MFC today = rabble

Big test.....how long does it take to turn around?

For a start we can use the two picks we get for Scully wisely and not on some skinny kid that may be ready in 5 years time.

We've had all the front running that's for sure but have we been the frontrunners in the recruiting field? I doubt it.

We need midfielders and we need them as soon as we can get them and if that means recruiting some kids with AFL ready bodies then all the better, I'm over the attitude on here that states we mustn't recruit "Man Child" players; why not? If they are good enough they will hit the ground running and it doesn't mean they will fizzle out after two or three years which seems to be the thinking on here.

A game plan would be good too, but no point if you don't have the players to implement it.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

FFS, just because someone doesn't come on here calling every single player a spud and the team a farce etc. etc., it doesn't mean that they're accepting sub-par performances.

And thanks for telling us all why we have forums like this.

My response was to a post made by axis of Bob and if you look at what he said and what i said it makes sense. Then look at your response and see if you can say the same.

[Webber 10,060]

We had 12 players under 50 games, GC had 17 players.

So with a young side i will take any win.

A big pre season program is needed to be ready for 2012.

Sam Blease is a beauty.

And i still think Jetta & Bennell will be great when our mid field matures.

These 2 guys are outside runners. They need a class midfield around them.

Neville Jetta is NOT an outside runner. He has been successfully transformed into a hard tackling, ball seeking nugget, and we'll see his complete transformation next year into a midfield/small forward option. His aggression is EXACTLY what we want. Have a look back at today's game, and his physicality....amazing development, just has had limited chances because of his hand fracture this year. Bennell's lack of hardness remains worrying.

[Webber 10,060]

And, does that include Port Adelaide next week?

We will get hammered next week.....Port at home will simply be much better than us. As a season whole, we are better than Gold Coast, equal with Port, and that's about it. Our ladder position after next week will vastly overrate our season. We just need to start all over again for next season, and erase this one from the memory.

[Redleg 37,603]

Our midfield is a damn disgrace. Couldn't win a contested possession to save itself.

Maybe that is because we are putting two taggers in the middle with one mid and a ruckman, whereas other sides are putting three attacking mids in the middle with their ruckman. They try and get the ball and then peel off whereas we look at stopping them, not getting the ball. If we do get the ball, we don't have the skill to give it off and no one is there to take it. Bartram being a perfect example. I would think the mid field planning is a large part of the blame. Jamar gets all the knockouts and the suns get all of the clearances.

[Nasher 33,047]

that's why you have forums like this, so you can vent your frustration.

Interesting you say that. That's quite a long way from what I consider this forum to be about. I'd love to hear Jack or Andy's thoughts on that.

[mauriesy 6,801]

We had a very young team and, while we didn't set the world on fire, I certainly found a lot to be happy about.

I'm with you Bob. Sure it wasn't a great game, the crowd was quiet and it was the end of the season blues, but too much talk here is based on the idea that the Suns should get flogged by 150 points every week and that anything less is bitter disappointment.

[Demonic Ascent 0]

Exactly Nash.

I think people want to be angry with it because they want to show everyone else how tough they are and how they (cue spewing noises) 'won't accept mediocrity'.

Yeah or maybe they're just sick of watching the team play like carp and the same guys pull on the jumper each week without having a fair dinkum crack. If you think that performance yesterday was every player putting in 100% then good luck to you. Or maybe you dont care if the players give their all every single week and are happy to watch them just go through the motions but after 25 years of that I've had a gut full and won't be happy with the effort until it is an honest consistent application week in week out.

If the players can't be bothered giving 100% then why should I bother showing up or even care about the result?

Edited August 28, 2011 by Demonic Ascent

[Bimbo 903]

We also have a fair whack of players around the 60-80 game mark who are slow/poor decision makers. The players' motto during the early part of the year was "Simple Brilliance." This meant doing the simple things really, really well, including getting your kick off to an unmanned teammate if advantageous. Too many times today we witnessed experienced players wanting to take the ball back through traffic because of an apparent obsession with the corridor. In fact, once again it was the experienced players who tended to let us down. At least Blease, McDonald and McNamara looked like they were having a crack. Cale Morton on the other hand just swans around trying to make it look like he's getting involved - credit where credit's due, however, it was probably one of his better games of the last few weeks.

Only players with 60 - 90 games are Morton (63) and Frawley (81). Were you referring to one or both?

[hardtack 10,127]

Yeah or maybe they're just sick of watching the team play like carp and the same guys pull on the jumper each week without having a fair dinkum crack. If you think that performance yesterday was every player putting in 100% then good luck to you. Or maybe you dont care if the players give their all every single week and are happy to watch them just go through the motions but after 25 years of that I've had a gut full and won't be happy with the effort until it is an honest consistent application week in week out.

If the players can't be bothered giving 100% then why should I bother showing up or even care about the result?

I would say that most of the playing group put in yesterday, but it seems that our young and virtually untried players, should be better than the Suns' young and virtually untried players purely because the Suns are the new kids on the block. It seems to be quickly forgotten that the Suns had a number of top 10 draft picks as well as a few seasoned/hardened players such as Ablett and Brennan (who is playing the best and most consistent football of his career at the moment). Of course they were bound to improve over the season and the fact that we beat them by just five goals is probably less of a reflection on our effort than it is a reflection of their inevitable improvement.

But if you like, I can tweet a few players and request that they send you a personal apology? ;-)

[Demonic Ascent 0]

Jamar, Moloney, Bartram, Rivers, Garland, Frawley, Jones, Green, Martin could hardly be called kids. Gold Coast only had 5 players on the ground you could call experienced (Ablett, Harbrow, Bock, Rischa, Brennan). Are you telling me we are only 5 goals better than 5 players, 15 kids & 2 hacks (NAblett & Harmicheal)?

[beelzebub 22,225]

Jamar, Moloney, Bartram, Rivers, Garland, Frawley, Jones, Green, Martin could hardly be called kids. Gold Coast only had 5 players on the ground you could call experienced (Ablett, Harbrow, Bock, Rischa, Brennan). Are you telling me we are only 5 goals better than 5 players, 15 kids & 2 hacks (NAblett & Harmicheal)?

WYSIWYG

[Demonic Ascent 0]

HSICBIOT!!

[PeterJames 46]

I think we lacked intensity yesterday. Which we have for quite a few games this year. This was the reason Gold Coast could take it up to us. We just did what was required. A few guys had of days. We need to learn to be 'up' for every game which the new coach will have to bring.

Thought Jetta's hardness was really good. Laid a big bump that set up a goal and did a few nice things. Still needs more involvement but would need more time in the middle i feel.

[daisycutter 28,535]

Maybe that is because we are putting two taggers in the middle with one mid and a ruckman, whereas other sides are putting three attacking mids in the middle with their ruckman. They try and get the ball and then peel off whereas we look at stopping them, not getting the ball. If we do get the ball, we don't have the skill to give it off and no one is there to take it. Bartram being a perfect example. I would think the mid field planning is a large part of the blame. Jamar gets all the knockouts and the suns get all of the clearances.

Agree with you there Redleg.

But I didn't think much of the quality of Jamars hitouts. They seem to be too much dropped at his feet in the middle of the scrum.

The way he runs past the bounce and props to outbody his opponent means he is only getting soft short taps

Would prefer to see a more offensive approach

Maybe he's carrying an injury?

[Mister Ed 269]

Someone commented that Neville Jetta was played in the middle but I didn't see him there very often.

Does anyone know where he was actually played - half forward?

[Mac7 309]

We will get hammered next week.....Port at home will simply be much better than us. As a season whole, we are better than Gold Coast, equal with Port, and that's about it. Our ladder position after next week will vastly overrate our season. We just need to start all over again for next season, and erase this one from the memory.

Mate, I think you are getting carried away.

We have had an equal season with Port although we have won eight games to their two? Port have lost 11 in a row including a three week patch where the lost by a combined total of around 380 points.

Our ladder position does not "vastly overrate our season", 12th is exactly where we are at. We have put away the crap teams at the MCG and got thrashed by anyone close to the top of the ladder.

[rpfc 27,474]

Mate, I think you are getting carried away.

We have had an equal season with Port although we have won eight games to their two? Port have lost 11 in a row including a three week patch where the lost by a combined total of around 380 points.

Our ladder position does not "vastly overrate our season", 12th is exactly where we are at. We have put away the crap teams at the MCG and got thrashed by anyone close to the top of the ladder.

Yes, ans another poster said this is our worst season in 25 years.

We may have a failed coach and leadership group but 07, 08, and 09 were pretty bad...

[drdrake 3,038]

Jamar and Martin continue to palm the ball to the same spot every hit out, they just try to drop it a metre behind the contest our defensive side and every club knows this and every opposing midfielder gets a full head of steam running towards their goal to shark our hit outs. Would be interested to know how many goals we have conceeded directly from centre bounce clearances.

What we saw yesterday was our young players that have carried this team for most of the year look tired and they can't wait for next week to be over. Watts, Trengove, McKenzie and co have been smashed up over the past 23 weeks, they have had good years and will be better in 2012. As it has been all year we just lack the high quality on th eexperience end of our list, even players that have been with us for 5+years. We need our 19-22yo players to carry us forward and when they tire we get games like yesterday and weeks like the past 6.

Yesterday highlighted our lack of high quality experienced midfielders, we are lucky we played the sun as any team with a half decent forward line would of smashed us yesterday and that includes Port.

[Brettmcg 24]

Only players with 60 - 90 games are Morton (63) and Frawley (81). Were you referring to one or both?

Bartram has played slightly more (94) and although they weren't in yesterday's side, Bate and Dunn also illustrate my point nicely.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Agree with you there Redleg.

But I didn't think much of the quality of Jamars hitouts. They seem to be too much dropped at his feet in the middle of the scrum.

The way he runs past the bounce and props to outbody his opponent means he is only getting soft short taps

Would prefer to see a more offensive approach

Maybe he's carrying an injury?

OWAAT blew your Jamar theory out of the water, focusing specifically on the quality of Jamar's taps against the Suns.

It was only a short highlights package, but the quality surprised me (not being able to see that well when I was at the match).

[Jaded No More 57,913]

Maybe that is because we are putting two taggers in the middle with one mid and a ruckman, whereas other sides are putting three attacking mids in the middle with their ruckman. They try and get the ball and then peel off whereas we look at stopping them, not getting the ball. If we do get the ball, we don't have the skill to give it off and no one is there to take it. Bartram being a perfect example. I would think the mid field planning is a large part of the blame. Jamar gets all the knockouts and the suns get all of the clearances.

Agreed.

Since Viney has been in charge we have conceded defeat at every centre bounce.

Bartram may do a good job defensively but he is a woeful midfielder, so while he may keep Ablett to 29 mostly average touches, he is keeping a Melbourne player from winning contested possessions and using them to our advantage.

For long periods yesterday we had Bartram, Jetta and Scully in the middle. WTF is that? Scully is good but he's very small, and the other two are not a midfielder's bootlace (yet anyway in the case of Jetta). No wonder Ablett, Swallow and Rischatelli mauled us!

[daisycutter 28,535]

OWAAT blew your Jamar theory out of the water, focusing specifically on the quality of Jamar's taps against the Suns.

It was only a short highlights package, but the quality surprised me (not being able to see that well when I was at the match).

highlights can be very misleading and besides we were talking of centre bounces

i don't know what theory you were referring to, i only talked of what i saw

of course you are free to believe his tap work is quality lately

[drdrake 3,038]

highlights can be very misleading and besides we were talking of centre bounces

i don't know what theory you were referring to, i only talked of what i saw

of course you are free to believe his tap work is quality lately

Jamars tapwork all year has been predictable, just drop it behind defensive side, it was the same last year, this year opposing midfielders know exactly where Jamar will put his tap and have roved off him. The issue is the spot he taps to if we don't get the clearance it opens up a quick attack we usually have 1 player in the region if he can't get the footy there is noone to defend a quick clearance into our defensive 50. When it works looks great but I dare to say his taps have been sharked more this year than his effective taps.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

highlights can be very misleading and besides we were talking of centre bounces

i don't know what theory you were referring to, i only talked of what i saw

of course you are free to believe his tap work is quality lately

Right... well, anyway I agreed with you, but the highlights showed different and made me think twice.

That's all I was saying.