Clean Out

[baysidedave 246]

Yeah. Scully'll stay.

no he won't

[Demon Dynasty 16,166]

Firstly IMO in general we are in need of.....

• A TALL strong bodied key forward who can win the contested mark either on the hit up or when playing deep in a one on one around the goal square and can kick a goal from most positions within 50. Given the number of times our younger and more senior players bomb the ball in 'hail mary' style this is a must for me atm. Hopefully this changes as the execution skills improve and we transition a little quicker as well as doing the 1%ers around the ground, allowing ball carriers more time and poise to hit up the leading targets (Howe/Green/Watts? etc) more often.

• A strong TALL half back who can manage/body on body the likes of a Cloke/Roughead/Lynch/Tippet (Others like this.....who we are bound to face as the years progress) and who uses the ball wisely and has potential leadership qualities.

• More inside players (at least 2 or 3) who are solid through the body, fairly quick over the first 10 or so, but who also have QUICK ball use/reflexes, especially around the middle and stoppages around the ground. Many of our players around stoppages are just too slow/indecisive with their decision making/disposal (in particular handball) when compared to the top 6 teams, offering our opposition many opportunities to force the turnover and or force another stoppage where they eventually win out with players who are just better in these areas. Nicholson, Blease are 2 newbies who offer this potential, but aren't necessarily inside players although Blease might be once he's had a few more pre seasons. Haven't seen enough of him yet to see what he's offering up.

Having said that i would like to see the club delist or trade the following......

Morton: 3rd year player, looks like a 1st year. Time waits for no one. We need bigger bodied hard nosed players like Tappy. Premiership windows don't stay open for long. Skinny boys who's skills/bods fall apart under sustained pressure/heat/physical contests, rarely assist in winning a premiership and i haven't noticed any change in him handling the heat on match day yet when it's applied. Nor have i seen any change in his body/physique yet that would suggest that's going to change either in the near term. On Sunday he looked like a 3 or 4 game raw boned rookie, and played like one for all but about 20 minutes once many others around him had already stepped up a gear after half time. I would have to see Robbie Flower type potential in him to change my mind. And i haven't seen anything remotely close to those skills yet.

Davey: IMO he's damaged goods both physically and mentally now. He admitted to suffering from "Etiphobia" a few weeks ago. He demonstrated it in a big way IMO on Sunday. In fact he admitted to suffering from "Awayphobia" as well in the same interview. Which for him, is any game that isn't played at the G.

I believe the younger indigenous boys and even some of the other young rookies would probably look up to him or have until recently. Seeing him leave would probably effect them in the short term i'm sure. We might even see a few follow.

However, as far as our indigenous boys go, it's not like any of them have solidified their spot in the team with what they've dished up so far. So i'm more concerned with and looking to any new rookies who we bring in from here. I'd prefer they aren't scarred and end up catching the same phobias when they join.

As Todd has already stated, this club needs a new "away" mindset...and that means a pretty big broom to those who aren't able to get their minds over playing away games.

And i'm not saying Davey is alone here. He's just the only one who i've publicly heard state this so far. I'm sure there's others who will need to be asked openly and honestly if this is an issue going forward.

Newton: As above, not sure why we relisted him.

Spencer: Had a number of chances. Another tall skinny lad (ruckman).

Sylvia: Looks disinterested and has gone backwards this year. Has never been a consistently solid player after many pre seasons and opportunities to show it. Doesn't lead by example often enough given his seniority. Provided we get a value option for him then this could be a nice win win for him and us.

Warnock: Seen enough. Judgement through the air and footy smarts/skills IMO just aren't there. Maybe he needs half a dozen games in the seniors just to be sure though. Not that we can afford that luxury and we miss out on trading this year.

Wanna: Uncommitted one trick pony. Very good at reading the ball off the pack and goal sneak though when he's fit and on. Maybe worth a pre-season just to see if he's going to build a real AFL bod/tank and get truly serious and commit to us as a small crumbing forward. Something we miss dearly at the club and have for years IMO. Hopefully they'll sus this out of him prior to offering him another year.

Players i'm in 2 minds about......

Strauss

Maric

Evans

Bate: Maybe one last try in a key defender role....Is about the same height as Tarrant and can roost the ball which might be real handy in breaking the press! Would need to turn things around big time pre-season though. Might be lost in defence though. Have we tried him down there before? I know he played off half back flank a few years ago from memory. But i'm talking FB or CHB maybe, depending on the match ups on the day.

Jurrah: Needs to take a huge leap in work ethic (not just aerial speckys!) for me to believe he'll survive given the emphasis on all players needing to play their role in the forward press, along with the constant physical pressure coming the other way from his opponents now.

Jetta: Worth one more year maybe.

Gysberts: No tank and too skinny. Opponents just run him ragged, run off him and/or break his tackles like he isn't there atm. Needs 2 more pre-seasons at least.

Grimes: Only because of his injury misfortune.

Dunn: Needs to change into a more athletic player through the bod to survive i reckon, with a view to quickening him up over 20 - 30 meter sprints on the lead and to help when chasing. Leigh Brown had a significant change in his physique after joining the Pies and it's paid off after many years and a few clubs. Maybe Dunn is also capable of a similar 'sea change'.

I also wouldn't like to lose him yet as he's one of the few players who has an AFL bod (weight wise), can hold the occasional mark, stick a bone crunching tackle and kick a goal from 50 or slightly more.

He's also entertaining as he likes to niggle/sledge his opponent and does a few dumbass things from time to time such as the Chappy incident. I even saw him shape up to a West coast player on Sunday lol. Cracks me up sometimes. And yes i realise this is not a good reason to hang on to him. But in the end if we aren't winning, i like to at least be entertained a little...even if it means having a laugh at our expense. If i didn't, i would've gone crazy by now

Edited August 15, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[7-UP 107]

Despite popular belief there is massive confidence at the club that Scully will stay at Melbourne as will Sylvia is what I got from the Presidents lunch.

Peter can you tell me the reason why club believe he is staying so we can at least shut up few of those posters that think he is gone.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Theres every benefit to dropping Struass to Rookie list .. its cheaper. Itll take him most of next season to get back to scratch...and /or find a spare spot in team. if he does come good ... re-ssign him..If not..well ..

Leave the LTI..for those that get injured next season/nab etc.. LTI's would still be entitled to their normal base contracted salary. Why pay that to someone who IS going to sit out most of the year then play the magoos ? Hard yes, realistic..of course. It is a business after all.

If Strauss agrees to it they can drop him to the rookie list on the same conditions he's on now; this will free up a spot keep him on the same level of earnings and give him the year to recover. They did this to both Newton and Meeson. They can agree to re list him at the end of next year and give him the first upgrade, as they did with Jordie, if he recovers quicker than expected.

[Steve13 457]

Morton has to stay, good size, can find the footy and his disposal will improve as his and the teams confidence grows.

Warnock could be and probably will be an exelent full back in an established back line. Once again he lacks confidence. I suspect he will end up at Carlton and will be very valuable.

Bate can go, hopefully for a second round pick.

Dunn I would keep, showed last year he could be effective as third or forth tall.

Sylvia if he wants to stay should be given the chance under a new coach to become the A grader we know he can be.

Maric, I like, needs a new coach to give him a rev up and he needs to work harder. High draft choice with alot of natural talent. Worth another year.

Bennel is a worry for mine, has showed very little and can probably go.

Newton is done, clogged our list for one or two too many years.

Aussie should stay, put family issues aside has shown he has all the attributes to be a very handy small forward at AFL leavel.

Barty I would keep. (I'm biased I love him, poor kicking and all, always been one of my boys)

[e25 5]

New coach coming in, invariably makes more and bigger changes than otherwise.

Be interesting to see...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Dear Maurie...did you catch the bit a little earlier where I said..in answer.. If hes still contracted then he remains so ? Ans if so he'll only get his base contractual salary..as obviously theres no match payments.. Stil lin lieu al lhis meds are catered to.

I think you will find most contracts do not break up base and match payments. So he gets paid his full whack whether fit or not. The Club will seek cover of his considerable medical costs under its injury insurance policy. And Strauss will have to agree to be moved onto the rookie list with no change to his contractual entitlements.

[jnrmac 19,412]

Morton has to stay, good size, can find the footy and his disposal will improve as his and the teams confidence grows.

Sylvia if he wants to stay should be given the chance under a new coach to become the A grader we know he can be.

Maric, I like, needs a new coach to give him a rev up and he needs to work harder. High draft choice with alot of natural talent. Worth another year.

Barty I would keep. (I'm biased I love him, poor kicking and all, always been one of my boys)

Morton - disposal rarely improves in players. Heart even less so.

Sylvia - yeah, he's had 8 years. Let's wait some more to see if he can improve. Duh?

Maric - dime a dozen. Move on.

Barty - weekend game showed why we can't keep him. 3 critical goals simply butchered. Same old same old. I wish Morton, Sylvia and Davey had his heart. In fact I think we should send them off to surgery now so they'll be ready for next season.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not too early.

Bate, Dunn, Warnock to go. Maric maybe.

Rookies released except for Nicho and Evans.

Sylvia and Morton to be re-signed but if they don't agree, traded for ready made players.

Scully - we will see.

Bennell, Batram, and Davey kept.

In a nutshell.

Given that the club will want to offload the contracted Bate and possibly the contracted Dunn, it's unlikely that they'll also offload the contracted Bartram. From a list management POV you want limit of contracted players you show the door to.

And there's absolutely no way known the club will retain Warnock. Uncontracted player who has played the last two years at Casey. When spots are at a premium (which they always when list sizes are fairly small) and you're 26 and can't get a game, then you'll be the first whose name gets the pen through it. And would Warnock even want to stay to play out another year at Casey?

Addam Maric will be name number two crossed off the list.

Those are the no-brainer decisions. After that is when it gets interesting.

I'm assuming Sylvia, Morton and Scully will all be re-signed. Where I'm interested in is what we do with the contracted deadweight. Bate is certainly gone - there's just no way we can carry him for another year if we're not intending to play him, contracted or not. If it were up to me I'd send Dunn the same way, but I don't expect that the club will agree unless we can somehow engineer a trade, and I don't see that happening.

Thata a pretty good summary of issues Nasher. I am not sure what trade value either will have but I would certainly put Bate and Dunn on the table. And Warnock is gone for mine too.

[Webber 10,181]

Forgetting about who's in contract for next year, who's not, there are players on our list who simply are not up to consistent, quality AFL football. We ideally want physicality, skill and reliability.

These players we don't want.....

Matthew Bate : this year is an excellent illustration of his situation. An excellent VFL player, who cannot make the transition due to complete lack of overhead marking ability and total reliance on his left foot. The AFL exposes him every time.

Matthew Warnock : very similar transitional problems. Excellent defensively at VFL, and average to good at AFL. His speed of decision making, lack of correct decision making, and poor disposal are fatal. Exposed at AFL level.

Michael Newton : no explanation necessary.

Clint Bartram : brave and reliable with his endeavour undoubtedly, but his lack of skill exposes him at AFL level every time.

Cale Morton : it doesn't matter where/how you play him, or that he can run all day, his lack of physical strength exposes him every time. His body isn't up for it and his brain won't compensate.

These players we should keep I guess, but they are very frustrating....

Colin Sylvia : pseudo-hard man, selfish and lazy, but talented. If someone could get inside his head???????

Lynden Dunn : his 'stop and prop' predictability is teeth gnashing stuff, but when he is confident, and with a defined role, he has shown consistency.

Tom Scully : He was a(industry wide, so not just our fault)miscalculation as a no.1 draft pick. He is too small to be a grunt and gristle midfielder, his decision making and disposal are poor, and he is a poor mark, particularly overhead. His knee history is a potential liability. He is worth less than either Jordie McKenzie or Jordan Gysberts currently, so unless we can fix him up with that kind of contract, we don't want him.

Jamie Bennell : the definition of a confidence player. If it can be harnessed, he is very valuable, if not.......

Austin Wonaeamirri : who knows???????? Circumstance has been very cruel to him.

Addam Maric : he just doesn't appear to have the desire/desperation to be other than an occasional receiver, but he has talent it seems.

The underrated......

Neville Jetta : he had developed this year, particularly as a reinvented extra mid....tackling, disposing better, being hard at it. I see a lot of upside in him if he can play a whole season.

Those with a good history who have had bad years.....

Aaron Davey and Brad Green, enough said. They must be retained.

As a parting thought, our leadership group for next year.......Brent Moloney for captain, Jack Trengove, Nathan Jones and James Frawley as vice-captains. A natural succession for Jack Trengove, and there will not be any speculation (media or otherwise) over the on-field example they set.

[corkey 0]

What is it with everyone having a go at Maric. I think there have been a number of games this year he has performed.

I say delist Bartram (worth nothing) and Jetta. Trade Warnock, sylvia, Morton and Scully.

[beelzebub 22,582]

I think you will find most contracts do not break up base and match payments. So he gets paid his full whack whether fit or not. The Club will seek cover of his considerable medical costs under its injury insurance policy. And Strauss will have to agree to be moved onto the rookie list with no change to his contractual entitlements.

Getting illogical in your old age are you.. Match payment are just that. Payment for playing.. No play...no pay. Residual base contracted pay only

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Getting illogical in your old age are you.. Match payment are just that. Payment for playing.. No play...no pay. Residual base contracted pay only

Rather than your usual shooting of the breeze, do you actually know that his contract splits up base pay and match payments? From my understanding most contracts dont have that division of costs. His injury would mean he still gets full contractual entitlements.

[beelzebub 22,582]

Rather than your usual shooting of the breeze, do you actually know that his contract splits up base pay and match payments? From my understanding most contracts dont have that division of costs. His injury would mean he still gets full contractual entitlements.

of course he get his contractual entitlements.. but if they are a combination od base residual and payment for matches played then guesswhat einstein.. !! Its been reported variously over teh last year or so that Melbourne is amongst a number of clubs moving more and more towards a remuneratin model based upon a core of entitlements plus bonuses and match dependent clauses. This is of course a double edged sword as there are TPP and cap issues withthis but this is the way its going. . Part of Sylvias current negotiating niggle is these same performance and match paying conditions.

Yep..all in the wind mate..tryi listeniing to it instead of retorting with empty bruhahas !!

Might sound good to others...but empty is empty

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

of course he get his contractual entitlements.. but if they are a combination od base residual and payment for matches played then guesswhat einstein.. !! Its been reported variously over teh last year or so that Melbourne is amongst a number of clubs moving more and more towards a remuneratin model based upon a core of entitlements plus bonuses and match dependent clauses. This is of course a double edged sword as there are TPP and cap issues withthis but this is the way its going. . Part of Sylvias current negotiating niggle is these same performance and match paying conditions.

Yep..all in the wind mate..tryi listeniing to it instead of retorting with empty bruhahas !!

Might sound good to others...but empty is empty

Please listen rather than blowing.

So I can take it you dont know what is in Strauss's contract. And if you can provide actual links to the "reported variously" claim it might give some credence to your claim.

All we know in the media is that Sylvia's issue is that he just wants more money in his contract. He is a player that you would expect should be playing best 22 in every game. So match payments aren't or shouldn't be an issue. And given his history of OP and time off with injury I would think it be unlikely he would ever accept your "No Play No Pay" clause in his contract.

[beelzebub 22,582]

Please listen rather than blowing.

So I can take it you dont know what is in Strauss's contract. And if you can provide actual links to the "reported variously" claim it might give some credence to your claim.

All we know in the media is that Sylvia's issue is that he just wants more money in his contract. He is a player that you would expect should be playing best 22 in every game. So match payments aren't or shouldn't be an issue. And given his history of OP and time off with injury I would think it be unlikely he would ever accept your "No Play No Pay" clause in his contract.

Good..As I dont want to pay for anyone who cant back themselves to play off their own bat..or is more than likely to spend more time watching than playing..fine by me

[MadAsHell 4,089]

Warnock - Trade to Carlton or Hawthorn for a 2nd round pick. GWS may even be interested if Scully stays.

Bate - Trade to Richmond or St. Kilda for a 3rd round pick.

Morton - I like the idea of trading to Port for Kane Cornes.

Wonaemirri - Delist but to be re-drafted in the rookie draft I suspect.

Scully, Sylvia, Green, MacDonald, Martin, Fitzpatrick & Maric - Will all hopefully sign new contracts. If we were to get Malthouse as coach I can actually see him making Maric a pet project given his comments about Addam earlier this year.

Dunn - Still contracted and will play out next season with Casey most likely.

Bartram - There may be interest from St. Kilda for a trade but I suspect he'll stay on our list next season hopefully to play out with Casey.

Campbell, Johnston, McNamara & Newton - To all go the way of the dodo.

Evans, Lawrence & Nicholson - All be given another year on the rookie list. I would have expected at least Nicholson and possibley he and Evans to be promoted. However if this was to be the case I'd of expected them to sign on for longer then 1 year.

[drdrake 3,058]

We dont need a clean out we just need to continue on the path we started 4 years ago. See below of what we have best 18 going forward, we have enough to continue to get excited about, if Scully stays he gets the a wing. Sylvia is a good footballer and the better we get the more impact on a game he will have. Morton needs to find something or he will be joining his brothers back in the WAFL.

Strauss Frawley Martin

Grimes Garland Blease

Sylvia Trengove Gysberts

Taspcott Watts Petterd

Jurrah Jamar Howe

Gawn Moloney Mckenzie

To me Warnock, Maric and Bate will want to be traded and I think the club might try to keep Maric but will try to find new homes for Warnock and Bate. No reason to put Strauss on the rookie list it leaves a spot for a rookie to be promoted next year when they earn their spot. We still have the makings of a very good team, our forward line looks dangerous our ruck stocks have been addressed, we need to find a better balanced back 6 I like the 6 I have mentioned 3 talls with 3 very good attacking smalls that can kick.

The midfield needs to be addressed we need a big bodied strong clearance player to compliment what we already have, plus some speed.

We retain three rookies Evans, Nicholson and Lawrance the other three are gone.

Edited August 16, 2011 by drdrake

[The Chazz 4,077]

We dont need a clean out we just need to continue on the path we started 4 years ago. See below of what we have a few spots missing but we have enough to continue to get excited about, if Scully stays he gets the vacant wing. Sylvia is a good footballer and the better we get the more impact on a game he will have. Morton needs to find something or he will be joining his brothers back in the WAFL.

Strauss Frawley Martin

Grimes Garland Blease

Trengove Gysberts

Sylvia Watts Petterd

Jurrah Jamar Howe

Gawn Moloney Mckenzie

To me Warnock, Maric and Bate will want to be traded and I think the club might try to keep Maric but will try to find new homes for Warnock and Bate. No reason to put Strauss on the rookie list it leaves a spot for a rookie to be promoted next year when they earn their spot. We still have the makings of a very good team, our forward line looks dangerous our ruck stocks have been addressed, we need to find a better balanced back 6 I like the 6 I have mentioned 3 talls with 3 very good attacking smalls that can kick.

The midfield needs to be addressed we need a big bodied strong clearance player to compliment what we already have, plus some speed.

We retain three rookies Evans, Nicholson and Lawrance the other three are gone.

Assuming you have Tapscott on the bench?

I do like the idea of Martin replacing Rivers in defence too.

[drdrake 3,058]

Assuming you have Tapscott on the bench?

I do like the idea of Martin replacing Rivers in defence too.

You always forget 1, I have amended

[The Chazz 4,077]

You always forget 1, I have amended

Lol, in theory (and based on potential plus what we have seen in some young players), it is a bloody hard thing to do.

So now that Sylvia has been shifted to the wing, are you assuming Scully isn't going to stay?

BTW - I love the idea of Tappy on a HFF, really gets me going that sort of thing!

[drdrake 3,058]

Lol, in theory (and based on potential plus what we have seen in some young players), it is a bloody hard thing to do.

So now that Sylvia has been shifted to the wing, are you assuming Scully isn't going to stay?

BTW - I love the idea of Tappy on a HFF, really gets me going that sort of thing!

No idea if staying and going, but for sake of the exercise I consider him gone until he signs to the MFC, which I still think he will.

I would love to be Jurrah, Watts, Petterd, Howe being supplied by Tapscott or better still Tapscott kicking over their heads for goal.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Yeah, see how his body is holding up and go from there.

He is the second type of bloke I would go after.

The first would be 23-27 year old guns with good heads, the second are 28-30 year old pros with really good leadership skills.

Yep, we need experienced heads.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

We dont need a clean out we just need to continue on the path we started 4 years ago. See below of what we have best 18 going forward, we have enough to continue to get excited about, if Scully stays he gets the a wing. Sylvia is a good footballer and the better we get the more impact on a game he will have. Morton needs to find something or he will be joining his brothers back in the WAFL.

Strauss Frawley Martin

Grimes Garland Blease

Sylvia Trengove Gysberts

Taspcott Watts Petterd

Jurrah Jamar Howe

Gawn Moloney Mckenzie

To me Warnock, Maric and Bate will want to be traded and I think the club might try to keep Maric but will try to find new homes for Warnock and Bate. No reason to put Strauss on the rookie list it leaves a spot for a rookie to be promoted next year when they earn their spot. We still have the makings of a very good team, our forward line looks dangerous our ruck stocks have been addressed, we need to find a better balanced back 6 I like the 6 I have mentioned 3 talls with 3 very good attacking smalls that can kick.

The midfield needs to be addressed we need a big bodied strong clearance player to compliment what we already have, plus some speed.

We retain three rookies Evans, Nicholson and Lawrance the other three are gone.

Agree, no clean out neccessary. There's the makings of a good unit there.

[hoopla 418]

Warnock - Trade to Carlton or Hawthorn for a 2nd round pick. GWS may even be interested if Scully stays.

Bate - Trade to Richmond or St. Kilda for a 3rd round pick.

Morton - I like the idea of trading to Port for Kane Cornes.

Wonaemirri - Delist but to be re-drafted in the rookie draft I suspect.

Scully, Sylvia, Green, MacDonald, Martin, Fitzpatrick & Maric - Will all hopefully sign new contracts. If we were to get Malthouse as coach I can actually see him making Maric a pet project given his comments about Addam earlier this year.

Dunn - Still contracted and will play out next season with Casey most likely.

Bartram - There may be interest from St. Kilda for a trade but I suspect he'll stay on our list next season hopefully to play out with Casey.

Campbell, Johnston, McNamara & Newton - To all go the way of the dodo.

Evans, Lawrence & Nicholson - All be given another year on the rookie list. I would have expected at least Nicholson and possibley he and Evans to be promoted. However if this was to be the case I'd of expected them to sign on for longer then 1 year.

I reckon this is a pretty good summary

Given that it is a weak draft, we might just stick with minimum of 3 changes to the main list.

Bate and Warnock are no brainers. The fact that Warnock wasn't given a chance against one of the big bodied West Coast forwards basically says he's gone.

The third should be Bartram because there is no place for such a poor decision - maker in a successful side especially one who can't kick. Unfortunately unless we can trade him to GWS which might benefit from his work ethis, it looks like we are stuck with him for another year.

Doubt if they'll hit Aussie with a re-rookieing arrangement after working so hard to get him back.

With that in mind the third looks to be one of Morton or Maric. I'd like to see both of them under a new coach - but if I had to choose one it would be Morton because hidden somewhere at the moment is still a big upside.

As to rookies, Nicho and Evans must stay - and Newton must ( MUST) go