Caroline Wilson writes on alleged "tension" at the MFC

[dee-luded 2,959]

Honestly?

I think he was bought in primarily as a development coach more than a game-strategy coach. Now we're at the point where game strategy is needed, it's either shape up or ship out.

Geez, your ahead of yourself. We've just finished the list rebuild, and while some 3 year players have had some development put into them, the majority are 1 or 2 Yr kids who are just starting their development. There is still a minimum of 18 months development phase to go.

Within this timframe we will still climb the ladder, slowly. We are now grouping our Best 22 players into the team, obviously to fasttrack the 'Team Development', which will correlate into 'Ladder Position'.

this Year, don't expect much more than 9th.

[45HG 1,539]

You got no idea who i'm talking about...but if you consider it baseless amateur speculation then thats totally fine i have no vested interest or nothing to gain from S*&t stirring.

There's only one person that comes to my mind.

I think you should consider modifying your post so, if nothing else, you don't implicate the wrong person (let alone the right one!).

[old55 23,598]

Back to the topic at hand ....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/buck-stops-with-me-says-adelaide-boss-20110421-1dqkz.html

Craig said he understood ''the old adage: the buck will stop with me … so let's not try and shy away from it''.

But he said there were reasons for Adelaide's performance disparity, including an influx of young players yet to prove consistently competitive.

''It's a consistency thing,'' he said.

''The teams we had two or three years ago in terms of the experience, they have been through it and the majority of them are hardened AFL players, so they have learnt their trade in this area.

''We have got still some players in our team who have got some enormous talent, but they need to understand that this can't drop away.

''And when it does, it's my responsibility to pick it up and demand it … it will come, they are not perfect from day one,'' Craig said

[Brayshaw Self 847]

I am under the impression that the Melbourne Football Club have already spoken to Mick Malthouse's Management. Dean Bailey is under the pump big time, I will not be surprized if Bailey is the next Matt Knights.

Crucify him! Crucify him!

[agent_orange 0]

Crucify him! Crucify him!

He'd want to start winning a few more games against real opposition.

might want to consider getting a game plan

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

I've been wondering lately, with the amount of other coaches about, how important is a coach? I'd love to see it from behind the scenes. I look at Essendon's set up and see great footy brains that are probably running the team together (along with the other coaches).

Would it be that bad if the club was to get, say, a Mick Malthouse and keep Bails as either a development coach, or as main coach and create a position for MM?

(I'm not necessarily advocating this position, just hypothesizing)

I personally would be stoked if Dean Bailey stayed on at the Club if we were to change head coaches. Dean is a very intelligent good man. He also knows this list better than anyone else.

[harry 1]

The attitude towards Bailey amongst Melbourne supporters who post on the internet has changed full-circle since the end of last season. Prior to this point, most Melbourne supporters who post on the internet had maintained faith in what Bailey has been trying to do and have demonstrated patience. Undoubtedly, this turnaround is because our start to the season has been perceived by many to be poor. This is a misnomer. In reality, our start has been inconsistent. Nonetheless, being inconsistent is better than being poor and we have got the results that most would've expected of us.

Criticism has generally centred on a lack of a 'gameplan'. I would be interested to hear some of the accusers try and define exactly what they mean by gameplan and try and define the gameplan of some of the better teams in the competition. I would hazard a guess and suggest that this criticism is born out of the frustration of the inconsistency cited above more than other factors. Individuals who claim Melbourne don't have a gameplan need only watch Melbourne's second quarter against Hawthorn this year and the games against Sydney and Brisbane at the MCG last year. This is the type of football Melbourne aim to play all the time. This is the type of football that had members of the media and some over-excited supporters claiming we were playing the same style as Geelong and would be as good as them very shortly. I wonder if some of those over-excited supporters are the same ones who raise grievances today?

I think Bailey is a good coach for the following reasons:

- we have got significantly better every year since he joined.

- individual players have got significantly better every year, particularly those who weren't obviously superstars straight from the off.

- we have traded well.

- we are a mentally tougher team than under the previous regime.

- he promotes a culture of professionalism.

- he conducts himself in the media well.

- at times, albeit fleetingly, the side has absolutely sparkled.

I view our start to the season as somewhat of a form blip and I believe we will improve as much this year as we have in previous years. I think we will finish between 10th and 7th. Despite our relatively small number, I have always thought of Melbourne supporters as the best fans in the country and am disappointed with the backlash against Bailey. We should continue to support the side, as we have with distinction through the dark times, and I've no doubt that the team will improve in the coming weeks and go on to eclipse last year's achievements.

Give em hell demons.

[Face Your Demons 175]

Well said My Harry.

[Mono 455]

The attitude towards Bailey amongst Melbourne supporters who post on the internet has changed full-circle since the end of last season. Prior to this point, most Melbourne supporters who post on the internet had maintained faith in what Bailey has been trying to do and have demonstrated patience. Undoubtedly, this turnaround is because our start to the season has been perceived by many to be poor.

...........

The turning point was, imo, the 3rd quarter against Hawthorn. Reminiscent of our worst efforts in 2008 & 2009; I think it rocked everybody - could it be we are still that bad?

Optimism has been replaced with a deep doubt. Where did that appalling quarter come from: most of us had believed that we were past that. After 4 years, we are still capable of delivering that rubbish?

(Neither Bailey or Green helped by talking up Hawthorn after the game, FFS)

FWIW, I think that 3rd quarter will be a defining moment for Bailey.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

The turning point was, imo, the 3rd quarter against Hawthorn. Reminiscent of our worst efforts in 2008 & 2009; I think it rocked everybody - could it be we are still that bad?

Optimism has been replaced with a deep doubt. Where did that appalling quarter come from: most of us had believed that we were past that. After 4 years, we are still capable of delivering that rubbish?

(Neither Bailey or Green helped by talking up Hawthorn after the game, FFS)

FWIW, I think that 3rd quarter will be a defining moment for Bailey.

Yes it wasn't a good start by Brad Green that Press Conference...the worst deflective spin i can remember.

[Guest 36DD]

I'm happy to back Bailey in. Yeh, 3rd quarter against the Hawks was disappointing, however, I believe it were a sign of our inexperience.

Much has been made of that 3rd quarter, quite little has been made of the 2nd quarter where we played bold attacking football, i think it is better to focus on the positives.

[bing181 9,241]

After 4 years, we are still capable of delivering that rubbish?

Yes, we still are, and still will be for quite a while yet, at least in patches.

We're also capable of delivering some impressive footy.

But on both counts, not consistently.

[loges 6,767]

The attitude towards Bailey amongst Melbourne supporters who post on the internet has changed full-circle since the end of last season. Prior to this point, most Melbourne supporters who post on the internet had maintained faith in what Bailey has been trying to do and have demonstrated patience. Undoubtedly, this turnaround is because our start to the season has been perceived by many to be poor. This is a misnomer. In reality, our start has been inconsistent. Nonetheless, being inconsistent is better than being poor and we have got the results that most would've expected of us.

Criticism has generally centred on a lack of a 'gameplan'. I would be interested to hear some of the accusers try and define exactly what they mean by gameplan and try and define the gameplan of some of the better teams in the competition. I would hazard a guess and suggest that this criticism is born out of the frustration of the inconsistency cited above more than other factors. Individuals who claim Melbourne don't have a gameplan need only watch Melbourne's second quarter against Hawthorn this year and the games against Sydney and Brisbane at the MCG last year. This is the type of football Melbourne aim to play all the time. This is the type of football that had members of the media and some over-excited supporters claiming we were playing the same style as Geelong and would be as good as them very shortly. I wonder if some of those over-excited supporters are the same ones who raise grievances today?

I think Bailey is a good coach for the following reasons:

- we have got significantly better every year since he joined.

- individual players have got significantly better every year, particularly those who weren't obviously superstars straight from the off.

- we have traded well.

- we are a mentally tougher team than under the previous regime.

- he promotes a culture of professionalism.

- he conducts himself in the media well.

- at times, albeit fleetingly, the side has absolutely sparkled.

I view our start to the season as somewhat of a form blip and I believe we will improve as much this year as we have in previous years. I think we will finish between 10th and 7th. Despite our relatively small number, I have always thought of Melbourne supporters as the best fans in the country and am disappointed with the backlash against Bailey. We should continue to support the side, as we have with distinction through the dark times, and I've no doubt that the team will improve in the coming weeks and go on to eclipse last year's achievements.

Give em hell demons.

Good points, we were wooden spooners two years ago ffs. I just don't understand what people expect considering where we've come from. I suspect Bailey suffers a lot because he wasn't a high profile appointment.

[rpfc 28,469]

The turning point was, imo, the 3rd quarter against Hawthorn. Reminiscent of our worst efforts in 2008 & 2009; I think it rocked everybody - could it be we are still that bad?

Optimism has been replaced with a deep doubt. Where did that appalling quarter come from: most of us had believed that we were past that. After 4 years, we are still capable of delivering that rubbish?

(Neither Bailey or Green helped by talking up Hawthorn after the game, FFS)

FWIW, I think that 3rd quarter will be a defining moment for Bailey.

What about the rubbish we served up in 2010?

The WCE game, the Port game, the Hawthorn game, etc.

We are not a good team, yet.

We have been getting ourselves into a lather in the preseason, a mastubatory internet session in which we fooled each other into thinking that the Sydney game from last year is what we should expect in 2011.

We are not a good team in 2011. I could name 7 teams better than us. Geel, Coll, WB, StK, Carl, Syd, and Haw, at a pinch. Why are we surprised by this inconsistency? We have the ability to be absolutely rubbish...

[plg31ni 2]

Depends on expectations

right now, winning by 90 points and being 7th on the ladder isn't good enough for most, so Bailey will inevitably be sacrificed sooner rather than later, to appease the impatients

Firstly they have played no one except the Hawks.... Disaster.... They won 2 games with half hearted approaches and not very impressively against teams that will be way down the wrong end of the ladder this year.. Bailey is not an inspiring man as is shown by his media conferences and his obvious lack of personality. I do not see him behind the scenes with the players and can only comment on what the public sees. Please bring on the end of his contract., Sorry about my obvious lack of support of the coach of the footy team I love so much and have done so since I was 8 years old. .

[plg31ni 2]

I personally would be stoked if Dean Bailey stayed on at the Club if we were to change head coaches. Dean is a very intelligent good man. He also knows this list better than anyone else.

If he knows the list better than anyone else why doesn't he know how to get the best out of it ? He may be an intelligent good man and I would never say he isn't but intelligent good men don't always inspire other human beings of the pro football type to win flags.. We need the real hard "killer" instinct.We need at least a bit of that type of personality to be publicly displayed.As much as I like Maloney, he should not have played last week. Our club should have shown real strength and stood him down for his public indiscretion. That shows our weakness and sets a bad example to other players. They now know they can get away with those sorts of stupid acts. Taking the vice captaincy from him was not tough enough. We must not tolerate that sort of behavior and suspension should be the only avenue. Hard ?? Yes, but other clubs have been harsh on these sorts of indiscretions, including Collingwood. They make Grand Finals and win an occasional Premiership, Sadly.

[Akum 2,660]

What about the rubbish we served up in 2010?

The WCE game, the Port game, the Hawthorn game, etc.

We are not a good team, yet.

We have been getting ourselves into a lather in the preseason, a mastubatory internet session in which we fooled each other into thinking that the Sydney game from last year is what we should expect in 2011.

We are not a good team in 2011. I could name 7 teams better than us. Geel, Coll, WB, StK, Carl, Syd, and Haw, at a pinch. Why are we surprised by this inconsistency? We have the ability to be absolutely rubbish...

Two points:

(1) Our next 3 games are against WC, Adelaide & Norf (none of which are in your "7 teams better than us", which I agree with). If our performance doesn't improve from what we've seen so far THIS season, there's a very real chance we'll lose all 3. And the pressure will be on.

(2) A number of posters excused our loss against WC last year by the fact that we were comprehensively out-coached. Well, they've had nearly a year to make sure that we don't get out-coached again.

We need a coach who will take us to a flag (fracking or not). It could be Bailey or it could be someone else, I don't care who it is, so long as they get us there. If Bailey isn't capable of getting us there, then it will just have to be someone else.

I'm predicting we'll know a long time before the end of the season whether Bailey's the man or not; I hope he is, but I'm not welded on to him, as some seem to think we should be. Our next 3 matches will be the real test of Bailey's ability to bring about improved performance, because our draw gets very much harder after that. I hope he does, but at this stage, I'd have to say that it's even-money at best.

Oh, and Sydney 2010 was nothing but a freak game in which everything that could go right did go right; everybody knows that. It is not any kind of a benchmark for anything; we may not reach that standard again, even if we win a flag, and I along with most if not all others have never thought that it's what we should rightfully expect as our standard level of performance in 2011 (and perhaps not for any other season). It no longer needs to be dragged out whenever anybody criticises our level of performance this season.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

If he knows the list better than anyone else why doesn't he know how to get the best out of it ? He may be an intelligent good man and I would never say he isn't but intelligent good men don't always inspire other human beings of the pro football type to win flags.. We need the real hard "killer" instinct.We need at least a bit of that type of personality to be publicly displayed.As much as I like Maloney, he should not have played last week. Our club should have shown real strength and stood him down for his public indiscretion. That shows our weakness and sets a bad example to other players. They now know they can get away with those sorts of stupid acts. Taking the vice captaincy from him was not tough enough. We must not tolerate that sort of behavior and suspension should be the only avenue. Hard ?? Yes, but other clubs have been harsh on these sorts of indiscretions, including Collingwood. They make Grand Finals and win an occasional Premiership, Sadly.

which is exactly why Dean Bailey may be a better Assistant Coach going forward. People are suited to different jobs.

Moloney was publicly shamed..i think that was even tougher than a suspension.

[Roost It 1,434]

I think Bailey is a good coach for the following reasons:

- we have got significantly better every year since he joined.

- individual players have got significantly better every year, particularly those who weren't obviously superstars straight from the off.

- we have traded well.

- we are a mentally tougher team than under the previous regime.

- he promotes a culture of professionalism.

- he conducts himself in the media well.

- at times, albeit fleetingly, the side has absolutely sparkled.

I view our start to the season as somewhat of a form blip and I believe we will improve as much this year as we have in previous years. I think we will finish between 10th and 7th. Despite our relatively small number, I have always thought of Melbourne supporters as the best fans in the country and am disappointed with the backlash against Bailey. We should continue to support the side, as we have with distinction through the dark times, and I've no doubt that the team will improve in the coming weeks and go on to eclipse last year's achievements.

Give em hell demons.

All fair points however it appears as though we have embarked on the next phase of growth without instilling the required toughness and plan needed to succeed. Is that the fault of the coaches, i think so although we have only played 4 games. I have been and will remain a fan of Dean Bailey and what he has done for the club. The reason I think he is gone is because this administration is hell bent on delivering the next flag(s) and fully restoring this club to where we all want it. To do that the club must win a Premiership in the next cycle (2008 - 2018) If we don't we could well remain as a club with nothing but history. With the changes afoot in the competition, with money being the driving force the big powerful clubs will eat minnows like us unless we are successful. To be successful in this environment means we have to have the absolute best people running every aspect of the club, especially the FD. I doubt an external review of the club looking at us against the competition would rank Bailey as the best person to take us where we have (not need) but have to go. In my mind the club will make a strong play for one of Roos or Malthouse. The problem being that if we take that track and don't succeed what happens then? Exciting times ahead. Go Demons Unleash Hell

[Demon17 5,188]

which is exactly why Dean Bailey may be a better Assistant Coach going forward. People are suited to different jobs.

Moloney was publicly shamed..i think that was even tougher than a suspension.

And in the very next game , IMO, he carried the team. The sign of a class act I reckon.

Good decisons all round. Don't compare this incident to others - I don't remember him belting anyone.

[plg31ni 2]

All fair points however it appears as though we have embarked on the next phase of growth without instilling the required toughness and plan needed to succeed. Is that the fault of the coaches, i think so although we have only played 4 games. I have been and will remain a fan of Dean Bailey and what he has done for the club. The reason I think he is gone is because this administration is hell bent on delivering the next flag(s) and fully restoring this club to where we all want it. To do that the club must win a Premiership in the next cycle (2008 - 2018) If we don't we could well remain as a club with nothing but history. With the changes afoot in the competition, with money being the driving force the big powerful clubs will eat minnows like us unless we are successful. To be successful in this environment means we have to have the absolute best people running every aspect of the club, especially the FD. I doubt an external review of the club looking at us against the competition would rank Bailey as the best person to take us where we have (not need) but have to go. In my mind the club will make a strong play for one of Roos or Malthouse. The problem being that if we take that track and don't succeed what happens then? Exciting times ahead. Go Demons Unleash Hell

If we take that track and don't succeed we will be where we are now.. Not taking that track at all will see us like you say, "the big powerful clubs will eat minnows like us", without any doubt. We should have learned how to unleash Hell... We have lived in it for a long, long time..Haven't we ??

[old dee 23,792]

Two points:

(1) Our next 3 games are against WC, Adelaide & Norf (none of which are in your "7 teams better than us", which I agree with). If our performance doesn't improve from what we've seen so far THIS season, there's a very real chance we'll lose all 3. And the pressure will be on.

(2) A number of posters excused our loss against WC last year by the fact that we were comprehensively out-coached. Well, they've had nearly a year to make sure that we don't get out-coached again.

We need a coach who will take us to a flag (fracking or not). It could be Bailey or it could be someone else, I don't care who it is, so long as they get us there. If Bailey isn't capable of getting us there, then it will just have to be someone else.

I'm predicting we'll know a long time before the end of the season whether Bailey's the man or not; I hope he is, but I'm not welded on to him, as some seem to think we should be. Our next 3 matches will be the real test of Bailey's ability to bring about improved performance, because our draw gets very much harder after that. I hope he does, but at this stage, I'd have to say that it's even-money at best.

Oh, and Sydney 2010 was nothing but a freak game in which everything that could go right did go right; everybody knows that. It is not any kind of a benchmark for anything; we may not reach that standard again, even if we win a flag, and I along with most if not all others have never thought that it's what we should rightfully expect as our standard level of performance in 2011 (and perhaps not for any other season). It no longer needs to be dragged out whenever anybody criticises our level of performance this season.

Akum you have it in a nut shell, this is exactly what I have been thinking the last two weeks.

So far this season we have drawn with a team that we beat by 10+ goals last season, been belted by the hawks and had trouble beating the two sides who will fill the bottom two positions this year. The next three are teams we seem to struggle beating in our better years.

If we are as good as we think we should win all three so by Sunday May 15th we will know if we have improved or it is just another "melbourne" year.

Could be Champagne or river water for DB by then.

Edited April 22, 2011 by old dee

[harry 1]

The turning point was, imo, the 3rd quarter against Hawthorn. Reminiscent of our worst efforts in 2008 & 2009; I think it rocked everybody - could it be we are still that bad?

Optimism has been replaced with a deep doubt. Where did that appalling quarter come from: most of us had believed that we were past that. After 4 years, we are still capable of delivering that rubbish?

(Neither Bailey or Green helped by talking up Hawthorn after the game, FFS)

FWIW, I think that 3rd quarter will be a defining moment for Bailey.

I agree that the frustration stems from that quarter. I also think that the reaction to one very poor quarter of football was over the top. Firstly, in the quarter prior to that we played some really great footy. And secondly, the same thing happened last year against the Hawks in Round 1. Everyone was convinced we were just as bad as we'd been for the last two years. In the end, we proved to be a much better side that had a couple of really big wins and almost beat Collingwood twice and the bulldogs. The reaction is unbecoming of Melbourne supporters and similar to some of the peanuts on the television who don't think before they open their mouth.

[old dee 23,792]

I agree that the frustration stems from that quarter. I also think that the reaction to one very poor quarter of football was over the top. Firstly, in the quarter prior to that we played some really great footy. And secondly, the same thing happened last year against the Hawks in Round 1. Everyone was convinced we were just as bad as we'd been for the last two years. In the end, we proved to be a much better side that had a couple of really big wins and almost beat Collingwood twice and the bulldogs. The reaction is unbecoming of Melbourne supporters and similar to some of the peanuts on the television who don't think before they open their mouth.

Sorry to disagree harry but it was not one quarter if the hawks had kicked straight we would have been so far behind at quater time we would not have been able to hear the band.

We were beaten in almost every aspect of the game bar kicking for goal.

Straight kicking by the hawks and it would have been a 100 point hammering.

And we did not beat Collingwood or the Bulldogs last year end of story.

Edited April 22, 2011 by old dee

[bing181 9,241]

Bailey is not an inspiring man as is shown by his media conferences and his obvious lack of personality.

Sweeping generalisation, and entirely subjective. For me, his media conferences are smart, and the more I see of him, the more I like him. As for not being inspiring ... all the reports I've read of people who've spoken to him are to the contrary of that. But heh, you (and others) have it in for him because a bunch of kids aren't playing like Collingwood every week.

(Though by the way, Collingwood got belted for a quarter by a bottom-4 team last week ... sack Malthouse??).

The bye couldn't have come at a worst time. Another week of this mindless conjecture and, as someone put it earlier, masturbation (though it's closer to self-flagellation and masochism). Which is only going to get worse once we lose against WC (side on the up, playing at home, and with more than a couple of useful players).

Edited April 22, 2011 by bing181