The Headless Coach

[drdrake 3,045]

My biggest disappointment is Bailey like most supporters know the issues we have, we just don't get our ball inside our forward 50m arc enough and we can't stop teams getting the ball into their forward 50m. This is a huge concern that we need to address, to allow a team to enter their forward 50m arc 75 times is terrible, it means we have been smashed. This has been our main problem for the past 3 years and we can't seem to fix it.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I wasn't going to post for a while but I have to comment on this game and the coaching. I can't remember how many times I've seen the same game between Melbourne and Hawthorn it's like Ground Hog day. I sit in the same area behind the goals, they kick to the city end, they get a good start to the game and we just watch them kill us, fortunately this year they kicked poorly so the game wasn't over at quarter time.

The game starts we win the tap but they get the clearance and this just goes on and on until the end of the quarter. They play down the AFL Members side of the ground and have 3 or 4 players stationed out on the flanks and wings all unopposed and these players provide the link between the midfielders and the forwards. The forward players all lead out to the AFL members side and our backs trot along several metres behind them allowing them to take an easy chest mark and usually kick a goal.

There is no real need to tape any of these games as they are so predictable and we continue to let them run the ball down the wing unopposed and they continue to slaughter us so just tape one and replay it every year if you feel like you want to punish yourself.

It must get boring for the Hawthorn Coach knowing that he can have the same game plan year after year he can be as predictable year after year and we just aren't smart enough to do anything about it.

To top it off we continue too, predictably, kick the ball out to the MCC members wing where they have usually managed to switch a couple of players to outnumber and out muscle our big men, meaning that the ball comes back quicker than you can say why the bloody hell did they do that. We give the ball to Grimes to kick and he seems to lack the power to even pass the 50mtr line even though he has a 10mtr start so we are behind the 8 ball there too. It never ceases to amaze me when I see players that are under no pressure, unable to perform the most simple of task like passing the ball to a team mate some 30mtrs away.

It never ceases to amaze me when I see the same mistakes made over and over again and nothing done about trying to change the dynamics of the game, like playing man on man for a while, or trying to get a couple of players out on the AFL members wing to try to stop the onslaught when it starts, as t always does. Now that it a big problem and whether it's the coach or the players I'm not sure but it's someone's fault and it's about time someone did something about it.

I had to explain to my Grandson on the way home why we were playing so well and all of a sudden we turned to crap and the Ground Hog game started; I couldn't give him an answer and unfortunately I don't think the coaching panel could have either.

This game is all about speed now and we just don't seem to have enough of it.

[Striker475 696]

Let me get this straight. You could deal with it better if we were not leading at half time?

Yeah, actually. To see a side come out and get thoroughly dominated to the extent where you know there's a gulf in class between the two is okay, because you know there are reasons for it. To watch them come out, take the game on to the extent where we led by 25 points at one point in the second quarter, only to basically watch our backs ping it to a contest over and over again for a quarter and a half before giving up and leaving was terrible.

I have honestly, honestly never been angrier as a Melbourne supporter. Never.

[nutbean 8,837]

Cheers boys !

The first comment after the siren from a fellow poster at the game was "watch the demonland ferals bay for blood" - you haven't disappointed.

We weren't OUTCOACHED - we were OUTPLAYED. ( although Bailey amongst others couldnt get a kick).

Our players,especially after half time, didnt go in hard enough,. Smashed in contested footy and smashed in clearances. Didn't push up hard enough to the contest.

Our biggest issue is and will be for the next 2 seasons is our talent is all in the youngsters - not in our mid to older players.

[DemonOX 8,541]

It wasnt the loss it was the way we lost. Second quarter was very good but hello as soon as pressure comes we crumble. Every man and his dog would know the Hawks were going to come out hard in the second half and what did we do????????? rold over and played dead. Looked like a bloody training drill after half time. Even if we win the next 2 matches BIG DEAL as it will be against sh$t teams. Very Very dissapointing. Under 10's at my local footy club would show more passion.

IMO Bailey has had his time and needs to go. You can only hear the same BS so many times before it goes in one ear and out the other(This is obviously happening to the players). Another year is going to be wasted AGAIN. And dont say Bailey needs more time as that is crap. They should be more competitive at this stage of their development. Besides we should have been blown out of the water in the first qrter except for the hawks bad kicking for goal.

[Jaded No More 58,505]

My biggest disappointment is Bailey like most supporters know the issues we have, we just don't get our ball inside our forward 50m arc enough and we can't stop teams getting the ball into their forward 50m. This is a huge concern that we need to address, to allow a team to enter their forward 50m arc 75 times is terrible, it means we have been smashed. This has been our main problem for the past 3 years and we can't seem to fix it.

That comes down to our midfield and unfortunately in the past 3 years we've taken two steps back every time we've taken one step forward.

We lost Junior, who may not have been our best players anymore, but he was experienced and strong. We gained McKenzie only to lose him to injury. Same with Scully. Same with Gysberts who couldn't get any momentum going last year due to injury.

Jones has gotten worse, Davey due to heavy tagging has to play in a variety of roles and Morton spent half of last year out injured and has again missed the first two games of the season.

We also lost Bruce this year, although it could be argued that he wasn't a midfielder anymore, nor was he much good.

At the end of the day we have drafted plenty of talented midfielders who should, in time, rectify this one-side inside-50 situation... when they can all get on the field!

At the moment we are relying on nobody but Moloney to consistently win the clearances, and while he is pretty good at that, he can't do it alone and he does lack a lot of class by hand and foot.

I think Bail has been thrown in there and has proven to be quite good, and Grimes can definitely play in the guts if we find a good enough replacement for him down back. It's just very frustrating watching us get smashed at the contest every week, and we are lucky that we have a good backline who save our arse a lot of the time. Imagine us without Frawley, Garland and Grimes

[Jack7 463]

Oh Crap,we lost our first game for the year,SACK THE COACH!!!!!!!

How many of you pencilled in RD. 2 against the Hawks as a win?

How many of you called for his sacking in the 2nd 1/4 when we smashed them by shutting down Rioli and Mitchell who always carve us up?????

He coached the first half very well,got all the match ups right,shut down their 2 best mids.

Mitchell,Hodge,Burgoyne,Lewis,Rioli,Sewell,Bateman (YES READ THAT LIST AGAIN FFS) were always going to come at us again and our midfield was simply outgunned and a lot less experienced,we outplayed them for a half and couldn't keep it up.

10 minutes into the 3rd,our midfield was broken mentally and never recovered and Bailey has no blame here.Sometimes someone is just better than someone else,end of story and no-one else is to blame.

Their midfield was better than ours,regardless of who was coaching.Malthouse,Sheedy & Matthews rolled into one couldn't have done anything but watch.

We are a great chance to win the next 5 and if we're 5-1-1,better sack the coach,we lost to the Hawks in Rd. 2!!!

[Maldonboy38 5,951]

I think everyone is more disappointed by the lack of leadership (on and off field), desire, and most importantly unity today than the actual loss.

Most of us would have realistically thought we wouldn't win today, but a display like that goes against everything Bailey has preached as far as it not being about wins and losses but improvement.

I'm not calling for him to be sacked, but there SHOULD be pressure on him now (finally), and he needs to show his skills as a coach in the next few weeks because so far this year (inc. pre-season) we have not shown any improvement from last year.

We can't keep coasting, it won't just happen, DO SOMETHING Bails! Make an impact, now is the time.

You've written my post Stuie. I do not want him sacked at all but there seems to be a lack of leadership at present. When will someone at Melbourne get angry with the heartless tripe we revert to so often?

I want to see Bails coach us out of this coasting, pedestrian limp football. I have had a gutfull.

I do not expect more than 10 wins this year but I expect some ticker and some grunt.

.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Maldonboy38

[DemonOX 8,541]

Oh Crap,we lost our first game for the year,SACK THE COACH!!!!!!!

How many of you pencilled in RD. 2 against the Hawks as a win?

How many of you called for his sacking in the 2nd 1/4 when we smashed them by shutting down Rioli and Mitchell who always carve us up?????

He coached the first half very well,got all the match ups right,shut down their 2 best mids.

Mitchell,Hodge,Burgoyne,Lewis,Rioli,Sewell,Bateman (YES READ THAT LIST AGAIN FFS) were always going to come at us again and our midfield was simply outgunned and a lot less experienced,we outplayed them for a half and couldn't keep it up.

10 minutes into the 3rd,our midfield was broken mentally and never recovered and Bailey has no blame here.Sometimes someone is just better than someone else,end of story and no-one else is to blame.

Their midfield was better than ours,regardless of who was coaching.Malthouse,Sheedy & Matthews rolled into one couldn't have done anything but watch.

We are a great chance to win the next 5 and if we're 5-1-1,better sack the coach,we lost to the Hawks in Rd. 2!!!

I didnt realise that footy is is played for 2 quarters. In that case Bailey is coach of the year!!!!!!!!!!! Its the way we lost which has got everyone [censored]#d off.

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

Hawthorn had 20 scoring shots in a QUARTER. Not because they were bigger and tougher, but because we were USELESS. Noone was leading to the kick-ins, the crumbing was terrible, there was no support around the ball. Time and time again Melbourne HAD THE BALL yet it travelled in the WRONG direction.

We're talking players that have a few years in the system now in many cases, and in particular senior players. The best player on the ground was Tapscott which is hugely telling about the way Melbourne played.

We can keep making excuses or we can start demanding results. Bailey has been in charge for three years, it's time for the latter.

i am not making excuses at all, but we do need more leaders yes.

Hawthorn applied extreme pressure , which is why the ball went sideways.

What is your solution striker? It is hard to create leaders overnight, they emerge.

[Maldonboy38 5,951]

I wasn't going to post for a while but I have to comment on this game and the coaching. I can't remember how many times I've seen the same game between Melbourne and Hawthorn it's like Ground Hog day. I sit in the same area behind the goals, they kick to the city end, they get a good start to the game and we just watch them kill us, fortunately this year they kicked poorly so the game wasn't over at quarter time.

The game starts we win the tap but they get the clearance and this just goes on and on until the end of the quarter. They play down the AFL Members side of the ground and have 3 or 4 players stationed out on the flanks and wings all unopposed and these players provide the link between the midfielders and the forwards. The forward players all lead out to the AFL members side and our backs trot along several metres behind them allowing them to take an easy chest mark and usually kick a goal.

There is no real need to tape any of these games as they are so predictable and we continue to let them run the ball down the wing unopposed and they continue to slaughter us so just tape one and replay it every year if you feel like you want to punish yourself.

It must get boring for the Hawthorn Coach knowing that he can have the same game plan year after year he can be as predictable year after year and we just aren't smart enough to do anything about it.

To top it off we continue too, predictably, kick the ball out to the MCC members wing where they have usually managed to switch a couple of players to outnumber and out muscle our big men, meaning that the ball comes back quicker than you can say why the bloody hell did they do that. We give the ball to Grimes to kick and he seems to lack the power to even pass the 50mtr line even though he has a 10mtr start so we are behind the 8 ball there too. It never ceases to amaze me when I see players that are under no pressure, unable to perform the most simple of task like passing the ball to a team mate some 30mtrs away.

It never ceases to amaze me when I see the same mistakes made over and over again and nothing done about trying to change the dynamics of the game, like playing man on man for a while, or trying to get a couple of players out on the AFL members wing to try to stop the onslaught when it starts, as t always does. Now that it a big problem and whether it's the coach or the players I'm not sure but it's someone's fault and it's about time someone did something about it.

I had to explain to my Grandson on the way home why we were playing so well and all of a sudden we turned to crap and the Ground Hog game started; I couldn't give him an answer and unfortunately I don't think the coaching panel could have either.

This game is all about speed now and we just don't seem to have enough of it.

This is the best post I have ever read on this site. 100% accurate. What's that definition of insanity: repeating the same action but expecting a differnet result?

Please Dees, show some nouse.

.

[demoniac 1,243]

I'm sorry, but no more excuses. He has had command of this group for a long time. He should have the group at his beck and call by now. Instead, we have a continuation of the side showing so much potential but delivering nothing. The pressure is no excuse, we made Hawthorn look lethargic and play a Carlton circa-2007 style kick-to-kick at the end of the first half, that's how dominant we were.

A loss to Hawthorn where we got smashed I could deal with, even expected to an extent based on recent form. To LEAD at half time when we clearly had the upper hand, then come out into the second half and show absolutely NOTHING speaks volumes of what influence the coaching staff have upon the playing group.

The reality is that he inherited one of the worst lists in the AFL and since he took over we have recruited almost exclusively young talent with the aim of building a list capable of winning a flag. When you go young it takes time but the rewards can be great but even in year 4 you'll have games like today. Personally I am happy that the club has finally held its nerve on a youth policy rather than starting one then squibbing it lke we have in the past.

The Hawks are a different kettle of fish. Premiers in Bailey's second year of coaching. They have added mature experienced players such as Hale, Gibson, Burgoyne and Bruce at some cost in terms of draft picks to a core of the now experienced and fit again talent that took them to that 2008 Flag. They have very much recruited for the now. Thats their gamble.

For mine the insipid third quarter was more about the poor leadership from our senior players and our kids gettng shellshocked than anythng our coached did or did not do. And yes that was an issue for us at the end of the Daniher era and we are rebuilding our leadership core a smuch much as we are rebuilding our list.

[stuie 7,374]

10 minutes into the 3rd,our midfield was broken mentally and never recovered and Bailey has no blame here.

Why!? Isn't that EXACTLY Bailey's field?

[bing181 8,176]

I have honestly, honestly never been angrier as a Melbourne supporter. Never.

... which you're making very clear.

[Striker475 696]

i am not making excuses at all, but we do need more leaders yes.

Hawthorn applied extreme pressure , which is why the ball went sideways.

What is your solution striker? It is hard to create leaders overnight, they emerge.

Forgive me. I have settled down a bit anger-wise...now it's more of the frustration.

From where I was sitting it was only PARTLY the Hawthorn pressure. There were a few other keys.

1) The senior guys not standing up. Moloney was the worst of this bunch, but it was Davey, Green (to an extent), Jamar, Jones. These are the guys who are meant to be showing these superstars in the making the way. There was a great article in one of the papers today on Cam Bruce, and how it made the point of whether we would have continued to force Junior's retirement had we known Bruce wouldn't have signed. The performance from that top end today makes me wonder, as Junior really could fire the team if needed.

2) A lack of...fire? Something. The big one was the lack of leading to the kick-outs in the second term. Admittedly, I didn't see the Sydney game, but that was telling for me. Part of it simply struck me of laziness though, not just there but around the ground. There was one situation where there were Melbourne players scattered around the defensive 50 in the third quarter...and NONE OF THEM WERE LEADING. Tapscott ended up hoofing it to Garland, who almost seemed surprised to get the ball.

3) A reliance on small players playing tall. While I know we all love Jurrah taking a huge mark, what was more telling were the four (that I can think of) that he missed, especially the one where he went over the top of Roughead and Roughead took it clean. Jurrah and Petterd are expected to play taller than they are. While I know we don't have the assets to play much else down forward, it means you get the bigger defenders smacking you.

4) In some respects, a lack of simple game awareness and/or courage. One that strikes out was someone (not sure who) kicking the ball to a two-on-one in Melbourne's forward 50, the one being Bennell. Yet the player actually had space ahead of him to run into, possibly enough to take the shot himself. While I know we want to encourage players playing to the team and those sort of situations, you also want players to be able to recognise where they can actually rely on themselves and play their way to score.

I'm sure I'll think of more.

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

Forgive me. I have settled down a bit anger-wise...now it's more of the frustration.

From where I was sitting it was only PARTLY the Hawthorn pressure. There were a few other keys.

1) The senior guys not standing up. Moloney was the worst of this bunch, but it was Davey, Green (to an extent), Jamar, Jones. These are the guys who are meant to be showing these superstars in the making the way. There was a great article in one of the papers today on Cam Bruce, and how it made the point of whether we would have continued to force Junior's retirement had we known Bruce wouldn't have signed. The performance from that top end today makes me wonder, as Junior really could fire the team if needed.

2) A lack of...fire? Something. The big one was the lack of leading to the kick-outs in the second term. Admittedly, I didn't see the Sydney game, but that was telling for me. Part of it simply struck me of laziness though, not just there but around the ground. There was one situation where there were Melbourne players scattered around the defensive 50 in the third quarter...and NONE OF THEM WERE LEADING. Tapscott ended up hoofing it to Garland, who almost seemed surprised to get the ball.

3) A reliance on small players playing tall. While I know we all love Jurrah taking a huge mark, what was more telling were the four (that I can think of) that he missed, especially the one where he went over the top of Roughead and Roughead took it clean. Jurrah and Petterd are expected to play taller than they are. While I know we don't have the assets to play much else down forward, it means you get the bigger defenders smacking you.

4) In some respects, a lack of simple game awareness and/or courage. One that strikes out was someone (not sure who) kicking the ball to a two-on-one in Melbourne's forward 50, the one being Bennell. Yet the player actually had space ahead of him to run into, possibly enough to take the shot himself. While I know we want to encourage players playing to the team and those sort of situations, you also want players to be able to recognise where they can actually rely on themselves and play their way to score.

I'm sure I'll think of more.

I think that what i have highlighted above is one of our problems right now.

Hawthorn are a tall side-We are not at the minute.

Tall players stay tall when shorter players fatigue.

when a tall team gets rolling, any opposition game plan is ripped up.

We lost a lot of midfield marking from stef martin because he was sent back to help stop Duddy and Roughnut

We tried to recruit Hale last year, and Hawthorn Trumped us. Bring on Max Gawn.

I do agree with a lot of what you say, but remember if one element of our team structure lags, a team like Hawthorn go in for the kill, and that is where we must get to.

We do BADLY need a Tall Forward.

[Fork 'em 6,554]

This game is all about speed now and we just don't seem to have enough of it.

I think we have the speed but as you aluded to last week we don't have the power .... or the balls .

The 2nd was won on speed but when Hodge , Sewell , Burgoyne & co got serious in the middle we capitulated .... again .

Edited April 3, 2011 by Fork 'em

[drdrake 3,045]

No point having tall forwards if we can't get the footy in there.

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

No point having tall forwards if we can't get the footy in there.

Point taken, but a small forward line is always under pressure. I am not forgetting the midfield at all.

[Jaded No More 58,505]

I think we have the speed but as you aluded to last week we don't have the power .... or the balls .

There is also a big difference between foot speed and ball movement speed.

We can move the ball very quickly and transition into attack quickly, and we don't really have an issue with speed I don't think (remove guys like Jones from the equation and replace with Scully and that's a 50% improvement right there). It's when teams zone off against us that we are extremely slow in moving the ball, and that is something Bailey is no doubt working towards rectifying.

When we were on in the second quarter we outran Hawthorn in numbers, but it's when we can't get first use of the footy that we are horrid and it makes us look much slower than we physically are.

Our kick outs are too slow and if we win the ball while trying to flood back we take far too long to get numbers forward of the ball. Twice in the last quarter today we won the ball and had nobody to kick it to.

I know that plenty of supporters around here cry that it's because we have no forwardline and nobody loves us and the world is ending, but it's pretty much because we haven't nailed that sort of quick transition footy that we need to apply when we enforce a turnover. It's also probably because we rarely enforce a turnover so we don't have a lot of practice

[drdrake 3,045]

Point taken, but a small forward line is always under pressure. I am not forgetting the midfield at all.

I actually like our forward line we have enough options to kick goals, we need to enter inside the 50m arc a min of 55 times a match.

[Guest 36DD]

Cheers boys !

The first comment after the siren from a fellow poster at the game was "watch the demonland ferals bay for blood" - you haven't disappointed.

We weren't OUTCOACHED - we were OUTPLAYED. ( although Bailey amongst others couldnt get a kick).

Our players,especially after half time, didnt go in hard enough,. Smashed in contested footy and smashed in clearances. Didn't push up hard enough to the contest.

Our biggest issue is and will be for the next 2 seasons is our talent is all in the youngsters - not in our mid to older players.

Finally some sanity, yep I understand that people are a little peeved after today but FFS get some perspective. The concerning thing at the moment is the 22 to 27 year old bracket...Dunn, Bate, Jones, Moloney, Bartram, none are world beaters

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

I actually like our forward line we have enough options to kick goals, we need to enter inside the 50m arc a min of 55 times a match.

i like our forward line too, but you cannot always rely on players taking Spekkies. A tall player as an option i think will be usefull in the future.

It is also good to stretch an opposition backline, which is exactly what the Hawks did tonight.

[titan_uranus 22,566]

No doubt he has things to work on.

We have got to work on kick ins. It's embarrassing how bad we are at them.

We also need to work on our structure. When things get bad the first thing that always happens is we lose our structure. The forwards press way to far up the ground, so any turnovers we create, we lose immediately because there is nothing on for the mids to aim for. When we are on song the forwards aren't creeping up that far, and when we rebound they are in better position.

He also has to do something to inspire a lift in effort. Absolutely non-negotiable.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The next two SHOULD be wins for anyone in this comp besides Brisbane and GC.

Bailey does not inspire

That had nothing to do with the coach today. that was a Top 4 former premiership team let off the hook by a young side playing like kinder school kids. No Balls.

There are Too Many under sized & soft physically, playing in our side! We cannot carry that many "skilled players"??????

We need some harder bodied and harder headed Men out there.

We cannot go in with Bennell, Jetta, Maric, Jurrah, Watts, Morton, Dunn,,, all together in the same side. I put to you all that definately not more than 4 of these boys, as they currently are.

Keep Dunn, give Jurrah a rocket, drop Watts (not presenting), Maric, Jetta.   And Bennell, earning a poor reputation as not going hard.  

It's gotta be said.  We need to progress.  Time to start getting tough at the selection tables as we are getting talent to be available.  Time to earn the Jumper.

Edited April 3, 2011 by dee-luded