" The Russian"

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Good thread.

He was against quality opposition in Darren Jolly and Josh Fraser

This is the only bit I disagreed with. Jolly is quality, though badly down on form. Fraser is a disgrace. I can't think of too many players less deserving of 10+ years in the system. IMO one of the worst #1 selections ever. On bigfooty someone started a thread saying they've never seen a guy play without heart as often, which I think is about right. I hope they play him and Leigh Brown for the rest of the year. I can't see them getting past a prelim with both those guys.

It is my opinion that Jamar is currently the most important player in our club? He defines the centre clearances and will be pivotal with the progress of our younger brigade --- your thoughts?

He probably is in a couple of senses. The first being that there's a gaping gulf between our #1 ruck and our #2... whoever that is. Lose Jamar and there's no replacement. We have better players in the side, but in each case, an ok replacement is waiting in the wings. Grimes goes down? Cheney comes in. Frawley goes down? Rivers, Warnock and Garland are very capable and are already fit and firing. Then there's Tommy Mac. Moloney gets hurt, and there's a whole slew of youngsters who want a go in the guts.

The other part is how much better he makes his midfield. I reckon Beamer would be much less of a player if he had PJ misdirecting his taps.

Right now I'd consider McDonald, Grimes, Frawley, Green and Beamer as the difference between many wins and a few wins. But Jamar certainly is our most important... much like Rivers was about 3-4 years ago when he was our only good defender.

[jayceebee31 759]

Good thread.

This is the only bit I disagreed with. Jolly is quality, though badly down on form. Fraser is a disgrace. I can't think of too many players less deserving of 10+ years in the system. IMO one of the worst #1 selections ever. On bigfooty someone started a thread saying they've never seen a guy play without heart as often, which I think is about right. I hope they play him and Leigh Brown for the rest of the year. I can't see them getting past a prelim with both those guys.

He probably is in a couple of senses. The first being that there's a gaping gulf between our #1 ruck and our #2... whoever that is. Lose Jamar and there's no replacement. We have better players in the side, but in each case, an ok replacement is waiting in the wings. Grimes goes down? Cheney comes in. Frawley goes down? Rivers, Warnock and Garland are very capable and are already fit and firing. Then there's Tommy Mac. Moloney gets hurt, and there's a whole slew of youngsters who want a go in the guts.

The other part is how much better he makes his midfield. I reckon Beamer would be much less of a player if he had PJ misdirecting his taps.

Right now I'd consider McDonald, Grimes, Frawley, Green and Beamer as the difference between many wins and a few wins. But Jamar certainly is our most important... much like Rivers was about 3-4 years ago when he was our only good defender.

Thank you Dan for your comments- I agree with your point re the quality of the rucks at Collingwood- however to ruck for 95 minutes against those taller players must exhaust him.

Edited June 16, 2010 by jayceebee31

[Yencks 8]

It just goes to show that at whatever age, you can't always write a player off if the club keeps persisting with them.

I am sometimes a major perpretator of this.

[Deevout 492]

It is my opinion that Jamar is currently the most important player in our club? He defines the centre clearances and will be pivotal with the progress of our younger brigade --- your thoughts?

Yeah he is for sure. to a large degree the barometer of the team this year, in my view.

[Jaded No More 68,602]

It broke my heart listening to his interview with Andy Maher (bad enough that it was that muppet), he wanted it so badly. He could not have done any more, he was completely spent at the end and he was shown his critics just what he's made of.

Chin up Mark, you were sensational.

Can someone, anyone, please Youtube that interview?

Stupid recorder died in the arse 10 minutes before the end of the game (it probably knew what was coming!) and missed it.

[e25 5]

Can someone, anyone, please Youtube that interview?

Stupid recorder died in the arse 10 minutes before the end of the game (it probably knew what was coming!) and missed it.

It was fantastic.

The raw emotion in the guy's face...

The way he was looking all around him off into the distance, everywhere but at Maher or the camera, as if searching for answers...

The way Maher started to ask a [censored] question and Jamar walked off on him...

Great interview and a killer epilogue.

Edit: yeah, sorry, have it saved on the HDD in my telly, but no idea how to get it out.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Enforcer25

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,885]

James Hird doesn't think he is the most improved or even in the top 7 most improved according to todays herald sun. He names:

Jordan Russell

Leroy Jetta

Travis Varcoe

Jack Riewoldt

Dale Thomas (who he names most improved)

Setanta

Tom Lonergan

Get serious....Out of those Riewoldt is the only guaranteed AA and maybe Russell. Jamar and Frawley should be in that list. Leroy Jetta WTF.....

Edited June 16, 2010 by big_red_fire_engine

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,293]

He is right up there as the most important player for us. Not just his hitouts to advantage, but his workrate around the ground is sensational.

You can see from the kickouts, when there is no short option, Garland was always seeking out the Russian as he is better than a 50/50 to win the contest. We have rarely won those 50/50 kickouts in the past few years, in fact I can recall many a game where the ball would barely get out past CHB before being drilled back in by the opposition for another point or goal. I think this is one of the reasons why we are in some of these games longer than we would have been in the past, because we are learning to clear the ball far better from kickouts, and Jamar is a massive reason for that.

BTW, As someone pointed out earlier, Josh Fraser is the biggest hack running around. Can`t believe JW is getting grief about being a dud after 8 games of footy, when this bloke has been doing it for 10 years.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Jolly is quality, though badly down on form. Fraser is a disgrace. I can't think of too many players less deserving of 10+ years in the system. IMO one of the worst #1 selections ever.

Jolly has left his best football in Sydney. He has been very ordinary at Collingwood and he was beaten badly in two games singlehandedly by the player who replaced him as No 2 ruck when he left. I am glad we agree that Fraser is a disgrace. And your comments from big footy I think echo the general concerns about his ticker. Interesting to note that Fraser was No 1 ruck against PJ in the QBW last year and absolutely flogged him. Nah wont go there.

Collingwood have really spent heavily on their ruck stocks over the years and ended with little. Fraser, a No 1 draft pick, Jolly (pick #14 and #46, 2009), Wood (pick #14, 2007). This is an achilles heel for them. However this should not take anything away from Jamar's heroics. One of the most improved players in the AFL.

He probably is in a couple of senses. The first being that there's a gaping gulf between our #1 ruck and our #2... whoever that is. Lose Jamar and there's no replacement. We have better players in the side, but in each case, an ok replacement is waiting in the wings. Grimes goes down? Cheney comes in. Frawley goes down? Rivers, Warnock and Garland are very capable and are already fit and firing. Then there's Tommy Mac. Moloney gets hurt, and there's a whole slew of youngsters who want a go in the guts.

The other part is how much better he makes his midfield. I reckon Beamer would be much less of a player if he had PJ misdirecting his taps.

Right now I'd consider McDonald, Grimes, Frawley, Green and Beamer as the difference between many wins and a few wins. But Jamar certainly is our most important... much like Rivers was about 3-4 years ago when he was our only good defender.

Jamar's position is important as MFC only play one ruck. This role is critical given the absence of an standout No2 that can hold a position up forward.

Jamar is important as a player because of the way he performs in the centre with his tapwork and physical game. He is also dangerous around the ground taking contested marks in defence using the ball well and at times pushing forward and kicking goals.

And its a very good point how much better he makes the midfield look. Beamer, Junior and co are far better players when they dont have to continually crumb the opposition ruckman which they had to do so often last year.

James Hird doesn't think he is the most improved or even in the top 7 most improved according to todays herald sun. He names:

Jordan Russell

Leroy Jetta

Travis Varcoe

Jack Riewoldt

Dale Thomas (who he names most improved)

Setanta

Tom Lonergan

Get serious....Out of those Riewoldt is the only guaranteed AA and maybe Russell. Jamar and Frawley should be in that list. Leroy Jetta WTF.....

Completely agree...Leroy Jetta

I also reckon Thomas has been so so in his games against MFC. His improvement this year (not as good as Jamars) comes off a very low base for someone who was a No 2 draft pick.

[jayceebee31 759]

James Hird doesn't think he is the most improved or even in the top 7 most improved according to todays herald sun. He names:

Jordan Russell

Leroy Jetta

Travis Varcoe

Jack Riewoldt

Dale Thomas (who he names most improved)

Setanta

Tom Lonergan

Get serious....Out of those Riewoldt is the only guaranteed AA and maybe Russell. Jamar and Frawley should be in that list. Leroy Jetta WTF.....

We are all aloud an opinion- but this is just ruddy ridiculous not having Jamar in.Hate to have him as our next coach with this judgment.

Edited June 16, 2010 by jayceebee31

[Guest The Boss]

We are all aloud an opinion- but this is just ruddy ridiculous not having Jamar in.Hate to have him as our next coach with this judgment.

It's one man's opinion, and for all we know Jamar could have been overlooked because Hird does not watch a lot of Melbourne games.

Also, all of the players except Riewoldts are playing for teams currently in the top 8.

[titan_uranus 24,873]

James Hird doesn't think he is the most improved or even in the top 7 most improved according to todays herald sun. He names:

Jordan Russell

Leroy Jetta

Travis Varcoe

Jack Riewoldt

Dale Thomas (who he names most improved)

Setanta

Tom Lonergan

Get serious....Out of those Riewoldt is the only guaranteed AA and maybe Russell. Jamar and Frawley should be in that list. Leroy Jetta WTF.....

Rubbish list.

Riewoldt is obvious. Longeran is a good choice.

Thomas doesn't deserve kudos for taking far too long to reach the potential he had when drafted at no. 2.

The rest still suck. For every game Setanta kicks a goal in there's one where he doesn't get a kick. And Leroy Jetta has improved, but that's only because he was ready to be delisted 6 weeks ago and is now playing half-decent football. Russell is massively over-rated and had a shocker against North. And it's not hard to look good playing forward for Geelong.

Edited June 17, 2010 by titan_uranus

[Jaded No More 68,602]

Can someone, anyone, please Youtube that interview?

Stupid recorder died in the arse 10 minutes before the end of the game (it probably knew what was coming!) and missed it.

So nobody is keen on helping me out while I'm sick in bed? Please?

[Red Sox 2]

So nobody is keen on helping me out while I'm sick in bed? Please?

It was a cracker of a post game interview Jaded!!

I've got in on Fox IQ...not sure how to get it to the wider world..

[volders 22]

It was a cracker of a post game interview Jaded!!

I've got in on Fox IQ...not sure how to get it to the wider world..

need a TV capture card... or know how to decrypt the HDD data which i imagine is very difficult.

[jayceebee31 759]

need a TV capture card... or know how to decrypt the HDD data which i imagine is very difficult.

seems ruddy too hard. If indeed Jamar needed a rest- whom should ruck for us- PJ or Spence?

[Ned 156]

What I like about Jamar, outside of his great performances, is the physical pressure he applies. Opposition players feel pain when he is around. He has that really hard edge that our team is lacking at the moment (which is understandable given we're young, but really needs to be developed). Having said that, I enjoyed seeing Frawley and Rivers getting into Brown on QB.

I think that'll be the next step for Melbourne, ensuring not only that we're never intimidated but that we make other teams suffer for their possessions. Jamar has really stepped up on this front and it is incredibly important. I reckon he has to be in line for best and fairest. His performance has been critical to the team's successes thus far.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Half way through the year and the Russian is probably leading the B&F; everyone loves him.

What a difference 8 months makes.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Half way through the year and the Russian is probably leading the B&F; everyone loves him.

What a difference 8 months makes.

Indeed you could cut the silence with a knife!

Still on the evidence to hand at the time and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Indeed you could cut the silence with a knife!

Still on the evidence to hand at the time and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I've been hugely critical of the Russian in the past but he showed something last year and it looked as if he had finally discovered the secret of how to play good football at this level. What surprised me more than anything was that so few noticed just how well he had played and were prepared to sell him for a bucket of bolts.

There were other threads where a lot of the posters wanted him out without having any ides of who we were going to use in his place.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I've been hugely critical of the Russian in the past but he showed something last year and it looked as if he had finally discovered the secret of how to play good football at this level. What surprised me more than anything was that so few noticed just how well he had played and were prepared to sell him for a bucket of bolts.

There were other threads where a lot of the posters wanted him out without having any ides of who we were going to use in his place.

Started to show 'Hints 4 yrs back. Then I think 3 yrs back he took to the giant @ the MCG, showing his intended direction with some good stats that I posted, & was duel y laughed at. There you go.

Now everyone wants to claim him. Well, guess what, no one can, he's done it all himself, with no doubt, some helpfull advice & support along the way.

[Wonaeamirri=STAR 1]

http://thebigtip.com.au/afl/44-opinion/621-the-russian-revolution

Mark Jamar, known to Melbourne supporters as 'The Russian', has been sensational this season and his efforts on the weekend nearly single handedly won Melbourne the game.

He debuted in way back in 2003 after being drafted by Melbourne with Pick 6 in the 2001 Rookie Draft. He took a fair amount of time to play consistent footy, but had purple patches here and there. His breakout season was in 2006 where he averaged 10 hitouts and was a vital part of Melbourne’s finals team that beat St Kilda in the elimination final. Injury mid-way through 2007 halted his campaign but as all good ruckmen do, he bounced back.

In 2008 he burst back onto the footballing publics’ radar being recognised for his consistent ruckwork but missed most of the 2009 season with a stress fracture to his foot, returning near the end of the season to kick 5 goals against the Blues and let the footballing public know he was still around.

Many rumours were going around that he might get delisted but Melbourne kept the faith. Oh boy, didn’t that pay off?

Just something I wrote on Melbourne ruckmen Mark Jamar. Very much improved and a key in Melbourne's future. His tapwork with Beamer Moloney has been exquisite. Thoughts on the article and Jamar's season so far? Haven't been on the site for a while but the revamp and banner looks sensational. I am not a dees man but they are my second team and I try and go to as many Melbourne matches as I can when my team North Melbourne is not playing. Good luck for the rest of the season and hopefully Jurrah comes back and Melbourne and North are fighting for top spots in the years to come. Cheers.

[Eth 4]

Just something I wrote on Melbourne ruckmen Mark Jamar. Very much improved and a key in Melbourne's future. His tapwork with Beamer Moloney has been exquisite. Thoughts on the article and Jamar's season so far? Haven't been on the site for a while but the revamp and banner looks sensational. I am not a dees man but they are my second team and I try and go to as many Melbourne matches as I can when my team North Melbourne is not playing. Good luck for the rest of the season and hopefully Jurrah comes back and Melbourne and North are fighting for top spots in the years to come. Cheers.

JOOOOEEEEEE, YOU STAR

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

Just something I wrote on Melbourne ruckmen Mark Jamar. Very much improved and a key in Melbourne's future. His tapwork with Beamer Moloney has been exquisite. Thoughts on the article and Jamar's season so far? Haven't been on the site for a while but the revamp and banner looks sensational. I am not a dees man but they are my second team and I try and go to as many Melbourne matches as I can when my team North Melbourne is not playing. Good luck for the rest of the season and hopefully Jurrah comes back and Melbourne and North are fighting for top spots in the years to come. Cheers.

Thanks for the contribution.

Not wanting to hijack this thread (mods can move this if they wish) but as a footy observer and Roos fan, who's list do you thihk has more going for it at the moment, the Dees or Roos? If you know a bit about the Tigers you can throw them in the mix also...

Edited June 22, 2010 by s-t-i-n-g-a

[Wonaeamirri=STAR 1]

Thanks for the contribution.

Not wanting to hijack this thread (mods can move this if they wish) but as a footy observer and Roos fan, who's list do you thihk has more going for it at the moment, the Dees or Roos? If you know a bit about the Tigers you can throw them in the mix also...

Melbourne have a very good core group of players in the centre; Davey, Trengove, Scully, J-Mac, Beamer with Jamar as the main ruckmen.

The defence is building nicely but the forward line is sometimes a weaknessess. With the right delevopment Jack Watts will be a star. Miller is too inconsistent but when he is in form, he can play a vital role at centre half forward. Jurrah, Wonna and Jetta are excitement machines and can provide good tackling pressure. You guys probably need another ruckmen to help Jamar and another key forward. Jizzberts is another young talent. The future is bright, maybe next year you guys will be playing finals. Grimes is a ripper also.

North Melbourne picked up some good youngsters in the recent draft in the likes of Bastanac, Ziebell, Cunnington and McMillan. Our defence is buliding nicely with the likes of Narni Grima, Thompson, Firrito, Rawlings etc. Our midfield group is very well placed for the future with Cunnington, Swallow, Bastanac, Garlett, Campbell, Zebs etc. Harvey could go on for another 2 years and if Wells can become consistent finally he can become a match winner. We have a good young emerging ruckmen in Goldy coming through and McIntosh in form is one the best ruckmen in the competition. Hansen up forward is proving a hit. We also have Warren and the likes of Thomas and Wright who are starting to find form. We just need another key position forward very similar to Melbourne.

At this moment I would say Melbourne's list is better than North. North's list is not far behind.

Richmond have a good crop of youngsters but it will be atleast three years until they will be making finals in my opinion.